Objectification is not male chauvinism

[Politruk]

Male chauvinism is the idea that men are superior to women. For a man to be a womanizer -- to pursue women as sex objects -- does not imply male superiority or female inferiority; it is simply acting on a natural instinct in an undisciplined manner.

So why does such behavior anger feminists?

 

[AG31]

Male chauvinism is the idea that men are superior to women. For a man to be a womanizer -- to pursue women as sex objects -- does not imply male superiority or female inferiority; it is simply acting on a natural instinct in an undisciplined manner.

So why does such behavior anger feminists?

I agree with you. Chauvinism exists and should arouse anger. But objectification as a piece of sexuality is just that, a piece of sexuality. Not something to base a relationship on, but something to enjoy.

 

[Brains_N_Boobs]

https://noodlemagazine.com/watch/-181253423_456239378

 

[Politruk]

In the '70s and '80s, there was actually something called the feminist sex wars.

 

[Brains_N_Boobs]

https://xhamster.com/videos/fox-on-the-run-vintage-british-hairy-strippers-14839025

 

[Brains_N_Boobs]

https://xhamster.com/videos/super-hot-compilation-12609395

 

[Brains_N_Boobs]

https://ytboob.com/full-nude-fashion-show-catwalk/

 

[Brains_N_Boobs]

https://ytboob.com/ifa-2025-part-9-000/

 

[Politruk]

Well, did you mean objectification of women or are you asking if feminists hate porn?

It appears that to some feminists, there is no difference.

 

[Politruk]

I'm asking you, though.

I think many feminists object to sexual objectification as such.

But I'm not clear on why.

 

[ericalauren]

It’s interesting that you use the word womanizer here. When allocishet men (and even most allocishet boys) have sex, they get a congratulatory pat on the back. It is entirely different for girls and women and those of us who are perceived as women. There is no positive or even neutral word for a girl or woman who has promiscuous sex. In fact, people use all sorts of gendered slurs to hurt people perceived as girls or women. Sl*t, h*, wh**e, etc are bad slurs and hurt a lot of people who are not cis men.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

Male chauvinism is the idea that men are superior to women. For a man to be a womanizer -- to pursue women as sex objects -- does not imply male superiority or female inferiority; it is simply acting on a natural instinct in an undisciplined manner.

So why does such behavior anger feminists?

Are you still in your right mind?
The objectification of women is the natural order?
Even if you tone it down, that's exactly what you're saying, sperm donor. Are you actually asking why people have a problem with that?
I have no problem with being desired, on the contrary, just never as an object, only as a subject. An object not only has no free will, it has no will at all.
I understand that there are "men" who find exactly that desirable, but they are not men. They are simply people who completely disqualify themselves as sperm donors and bedfellows.

 

[Politruk]

allocishet

Never seen that word before.

 

[Meekly_Anna]

There is no positive or even neutral word for a girl or woman who has promiscuous sex.

Satisfied?

 

[Politruk]

The 1970s women's lib movement also inspired a lot of women to experiment with lesbianism -- but that's a different subject.

One feminist slogan of the time was "A woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle." Bear in mind that at the time, it was generally assumed, in our culture, that a man can be complete in himself, but a woman needs a man to complete her. That was one of those assumptions so widespread and deeply rooted that nobody even notices it until somebody objects to it.

 

[Politruk]

I remember in college, a feminist club showed a documentary called "Not a Love Story," arguing that all pornography is exploitive of women. (Gay porn was never mentioned.) The producers make much of the fact that the word "pornography" comes from the Greek pornos -- meaning "prostitute," but they translated it as "female sexual slave." (Of course, in ancient Greece, most prostitutes were slaves.)

Well, perhaps "degrading" would be a better word than "exploitive" for the point the documentary was trying to make, But it did hammer really hard on "female sexual slave." They made the point that what a man really wants is a woman kneeling before him, worshiping him by sucking on him. And they showed a scene where a man was holding a gun while a woman knelt and fellated it.

 

[Politruk]

Are you still in your right mind?
The objectification of women is the natural order?

Natural in the sense of being instinctive. A pubescent boy does not suddenly become fascinated with girls because he is interested in their personalities. Rape is a nearly universal behavior, it happens in every human culture. Likewise with prostitution. And adultery, though that often has more of a romantic aspect.

 

[Politruk]

What is classified as men's work or as women's work varies widely from culture to culture -- but in all (premodern) human cultures, whatever men do is considered more important than what women do.

 

[Politruk]

SWERFS have largely gone the way of the dodo bird.

Sex-Worker Exclusionary Radical Feminist?

 

[LMWM321]

As I see it, the problem isn't that men see women as sexual objects. The problem is when men see women ONLY as sexual objects, ONLY as sexual playthings and NOT as equals in every other aspect of life. ..Or when they don't limit their objectification to the right person (ie, consenting), time and place.

As for porn, let's be honest.. a GREAT DEAL of porn is highly problematic...but that doesn't mean ALL of it is exploitative.

 

[LMWM321]

I remember in college, a feminist club showed a documentary called "Not a Love Story," arguing that all pornography is exploitive of women.

That's nonsense. ..And feminists are not monolithic - Betty Friedan, Gloria Steinem, Camile Paglia, etc.. - are all feminists but they don't all agree on what is exploitative.

To say ALL porn is exploitative is to deny women their agency and to infantilize them - ie., it's telling those who chose and enjoy their career in porn that they are too stupid or immature to know what's good for them. Which is ridiculous.

 

[UtilityCurve]

To say ALL porn is exploitative is to deny women their agency and to infantilize them - ie., it's telling those who chose and enjoy their career in porn that they are too stupid or immature to know what's good for them. Which is ridiculous.

See, I never thought that was the critique.

Rather it is best illustrated in a way familiar to most husbands and BF's: When you give her flowers "for no reason" all of the other guys around you say "You're making it hard(er) for the rest of us."

Women in porn do have agency, most anti-porners would admit, they just wish they wouldn't exercise it that way. Solidarity, sisterhood, setting a better example for young girls, etc.

 

[LMWM321]

Women in porn do have agency, most anti-porners would admit, they just wish they wouldn't exercise it that way. Solidarity, sisterhood, setting a better example for young girls, etc.

Okay.. But then maybe men who monetize their talent for professional Football, Boxing, Ice Hockey, MMA or Rugby should consider the example they are setting for young boys. After all, these sports are far more physically and cognitively damaging than a young woman who monetizes her enjoying consensual and mutually enjoyable sex on camera.

 

[UtilityCurve]

Okay.. But then maybe men who monetize their talent for professional Football, Boxing, Ice Hockey, MMA or Rugby should consider the example they are setting for young boys. After all, these sports are far more physically and cognitively damaging than a young woman who monetizes her enjoying consensual and mutually enjoyable sex on camera.

Ah, I was hoping to throw shade at appeals to solidarity, sisterhood and role-modeling as universal duties.

Could have worked out my wry tone better.

 

[LMWM321]

Ah, I was hoping to throw shade at appeals to solidarity, sisterhood and role-modeling as universal duties.

Could have worked out my wry tone better.

Yeah, you need to be a bit more direct when it comes to me... Sorry

But I agree that a woman doesn't owe her gender her freedom of choice.

Besides, not all women agree that Porn is harmful to all women. Why? Because Porn is more ubiquitous than ever, thanks to the internet, AND at the same time, we have more women graduating from college than men, more women CEO's than ever, the gender pay gap at it's narrowest AND society and our legal system are finally hearing women and dealing more harshly with douchebags like Harvey Weinstein, Jeffrey Epstein, Bill Cosby, and Sean Diddy, etc.

Are women treated equally in our society? Nope.. far from it. But the gap is smaller than it's ever been, and it's happening at a time when porn is more widely viewed than ever - including 35% of women (who admit to it, anyway - which means it's probably much higher). ...So, my leftist and woke leanings notwithstanding, I don't think all Porn is harming all women.

Does Porn harm the women in the Porn industry? Well, I still don't think it necessarily does, but even if it did ...that is their choice. Again, no different than a guy who choses MMA or Boxing as a career despite the repeated concussions and the subsequent early cognitive decline he'll very likely experience from it.