Obama's speech on race

[Drixxx]

The reactionaries on this board crack me up. Bitchin' and whinin' about Rev. Wright and his "hate speech". You guys are such wimps. Nobody ever heard of this guy before two weeks ago. Rev Wright ain't squat. A small time preacher. No Mega Church. No satellite networks. No Universities.

Imagine real hate speech for a minute. Imagine Rev. Wright esposing racial superiority of Blacks over Whites. Forced segragation of Whites from mainstream American society including government agencies, etc. Imagine he belonged to a secret organization that wore hoods and openly called for the murder of White people. And this organzation held open rallies and marches through the middle of town. Where members murdered White people at night and hung their bodies from trees. Where local law enforcement approved and in many cases participated in the murder of White people. And all of this with a couple hundred year background of White human slavery

No. A preacher who served his country as a marine and suffered some of the most humilating experiences of being treating like a second class citizen in his own country is not a racist or anti-American. He is a passionate man who speaks his mind. And he's not (one of the right wing's favorite term) PC.

So when we start throwing around term like hate speech let's make sure what real hate speech is and what it isn't.

 

[zipman]

This thread is depressing on so many levels, but the most horrid of all is the code of
narrow-mindedness.

Many of you strut around wanting to believe you are right, needing it. In reality,
you're a bunch of impotent crowing roosters, you never want to hear anything that
contradicts what you want to believe is true.

There was nothing "anti-American" or "racist" about Wright's speech. He simply
pointed out injustice, inequality in a system that prides itself on equality for all. He
never advocated the superiority of minorities, but he did say that perpetrating such
an act was an act of injustice. Which would be un-American.

I'm a relatively liberal democrat and I found his comments to be both "anti-American" and "racist."

He basically accused the government of giving the black community drugs and trying to increase the size of the black population in prison. Now if you have some proof that the government is actively supplying the black community with drugs to lock them up, I would love to see it. Until I do, I will continue to think that Wright was playing on racial fears and stereotypes while condemning this country for something it did not do.

 

[Drixxx]

I'm a relatively liberal democrat and I found his comments to be both "anti-American" and "racist."

He basically accused the government of giving the black community drugs and trying to increase the size of the black population in prison. Now if you have some proof that the government is actively supplying the black community with drugs to lock them up, I would love to see it. Until I do, I will continue to think that Wright was playing on racial fears and stereotypes while condemning this country for something it did not do.

You ever hear of Iran Contra and it's connection to Freeway Rick Ross in Los Angeles? Ever see the Willie Horton ad? Ever hear of the views of U.S. Senators Jesse Helms and Strom Thurman? And you are aware of the genocide of American Indians, human slavery of Blacks, Jim Crow laws, Japanese American internment, etc.?

Excuse if I don't share your sunny optimism of the U.S. government and it's motives considering it's history.

 

[Ishmael]

I hear some of the pundits comparing the speech to MLK's "I Have Dream' speech. Obviously the ability of those pundits to winnow rhetoric is in a downward spiral.

Obamas speech did not compare to MLK's on almost any level. It was NOT uplifting nor inspirational and it was, essentially, a political speech.

He did address some issues and then went on to propose that all we need is more of what casued the problem to begin with, that being government.

No government policy consistent with a free society will reduce the illegitimacy rate in the black community, nor will it reduce the extraordinarily high black drop out rate. Only the black community itself can solve those problems.

Nor will an increase in corporate taxes be an incentive for those corporations to bring those jobs back from offshore. It is likely to have quite the opposite effect.

There were portions of the speech that were well written, and, as usual, his delivery was quite good. But he answered no questions and proposed no solutions.

6 months from now his speech will be pretty much forgotten.

Ishmael

 

[zipman]

You ever hear of Iran Contra and it's connection to Freeway Rick Ross in Los Angeles? Ever see the Willie Horton ad? Ever hear of the views of U.S. Senators Jesse Helms and Strom Thurman? And you are aware of the genocide of American Indians, human slavery of Blacks, Jim Crow laws, Japanese American internment, etc.?

Excuse if I don't share sunny optimism of the U.S. government motives considering it's history.

I'm aware of all of those things. They do nothing to change the substance of my post which is he made unproven accusations that I found both anti-American and racist in nature.

Post some evidence about that if you want to change my mind.

 

[Bestlife]

So when we start throwing around term like hate speech let's make sure what real hate speech is and what it isn't.

Uh, its a hate speech, anyway you cut it. Cut the bull!

 

[Drixxx]

I'm aware of all of those things. They do nothing to change the substance of my post which is he made unproven accusations that I found both anti-American and racist in nature.

Post some evidence about that if you want to change my mind.

I think the onus is on you to post what is said was racist or anti-American.

If this was some old White guy talking about taxes it wouldn't have even made the news.

 

[Drixxx]

Uh, its a hate speech, anyway you cut it. Cut the bull!

Paste the quote and show what he said was racist.

 

[zipman]

I think the onus is on you to post what is said was racist or anti-American.

If this was some old White guy talking about taxes it wouldn't have even made the news.

Here's the quote:

An ABC News review of dozens of Rev. Wright's sermons, offered for sale by the church, found repeated denunciations of the U.S. based on what he described as his reading of the Gospels and the treatment of black Americans.

"The government gives them the drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strike law and then wants us to sing 'God Bless America.' No, no, no, God damn America, that's in the Bible for killing innocent people," he said in a 2003 sermon. "God damn America for treating our citizens as less than human. God damn America for as long as she acts like she is God and she is supreme."

I already explained why I thought the quote above was both anti-american and racist. I've also bolded the most relevent sentence. If you still have difficullty understanding my point I can't think of anything else I could possibly do to explain it.

Now can you post some evidence to back his claims?

 

[Bestlife]

Paste the quote and show what he said was racist.

I was refering to Reverend Wright and his " snippets" as Obama calls them.

 

[Queersetti]

Indeed how many times do we have to listen to Pat Robertson spout his nonsense or the reruns of Jerry Fallwell.

Trust me the identity of the Moral Majority are Fundamentalist White Americans.

One of the most troubling things about the right is it's almost complete lack of a sense of proportion.

They shrug off centuries of discrimination against blacks as an historical irrelevancy, while howling blue blazes at the slightest incident of black hatred directed towards whites.

They accept massive fraud and waste on the part of the military industrial complex, but pop a blood vessel at the thought that some poor person somewhere might get a welfare check they don't deserve.

They ignored decades of hate filled white preachers spitting invective at liberals, at women, at gays, but they are shocked! shocked! to hear the abominations coming from Jeremiah Wright.

But, of course, none of it has anything to do with race.

 

[Queersetti]

Still no answer to this question.

I didn't really expect one.

 

[Bestlife]

I didn't really expect one.

Perhaps he can't spell his name properly?

 

[LotusDreamer]

I'm a relatively liberal democrat and I found his comments to be both "anti-American" and "racist."

He basically accused the government of giving the black community drugs and trying to increase the size of the black population in prison. Now if you have some proof that the government is actively supplying the black community with drugs to lock them up, I would love to see it. Until I do, I will continue to think that Wright was playing on racial fears and stereotypes while condemning this country for something it did not do.

I don't like to cast myself in the role of victim-- My grandmother may have been a
victim, her grandmother was definitely a victim, however, I am not. But, I can tell
you this, conditions and limits placed on a man can do terrible things to his
psyche, pushes him to places he'd rather not go.

I wish I could see the racism and anti-Americanism-- Unless stating your opinion,
no matter how ill informed, is anti-American and racist, then yes, I guess he is.

 

[Drixxx]

Here's the quote:



I already explained why I thought the quote above was both anti-american and racist. I've also bolded the most relevent sentence. If you still have difficullty understanding my point I can't think of anything else I could possibly do to explain it.

Now can you post some evidence to back his claims?

So you are saying the government has never been involved in drug running, prison buliding, or the three strikes law? And to point this out is anti-American.

Let's be grown ups here. George Washington didn't chop down a cherry tree. The U.S. government at this very moment, on a whim, invaded Iraq and has killed thousands upon thousands of Iraqi citizens. Not such much has one single person had anything to do with 9/11. The U.S. government in it's long term history has engaged in human slavery and genocide. In it's recent history we engage in rape, torture, secret prisons, etc.

Spare me the platitudes and the calls for proof of U.S. misdeeds at home and abroad.

 

[sigh]

Quite the contrary.

It will make no difference to the star-gazing liberals who worship at the shrine of Obama, as evident here, but it very well may have decided some conservative democrats and independent/unaffiliated voters minds.

You're right. I'm a right-leaning liberal (or left-leaning moderate, depending on your point of view), an independent who voted to put Obama in his Senate seat, but voted against our current governor (who's also a Democrat).

I vote the candidates and the issues, not the party.

And this speech did indeed decide me. Oh, I've been a fan of Obama's for some time now, but now I'm an active supporter. I loved the speech. He reached back in time and pulled out the roots of all our racial anger, looked at them from both sides, and recognized that when you understand the roots, then healing can begin. It's like AA. First you have to recognize the problem....

In this, he thinks exactly as I do.

 

[Drixxx]

The lack of empathy around here is astounding but it does not surprise me. I am not gay. Never been gay. Not bi curious. Nothing. Straight as an arrow. And if a gay guy tells me pissed off because I'll never understand the pain and humilation of having to pretend something you're not. Fear of getting fired from your job. Never being able to show affection or hold your lover's hand in public. Can't engage in the legal protections of marriage. Fear of being from ostracized to murdered for simply loving another person. I could go on and on. And those are just the obvious ones. I'm sure there's many levels of discrimantion I'm not even aware of. And while I'll never know that pain personally. I can imagine it.

So if a gay guy tells me he's really pissed. Has had it up to here with hetros. Is sick of the government. I'm not going to sweat it. I can see where he is coming from. That wouldn't be hate speech. That would be a person expressing their pain of discrimination.

 

[sigh]

I hear some of the pundits comparing the speech to MLK's "I Have Dream' speech. Obviously the ability of those pundits to winnow rhetoric is in a downward spiral.

Obamas speech did not compare to MLK's on almost any level. It was NOT uplifting nor inspirational and it was, essentially, a political speech.

He did address some issues and then went on to propose that all we need is more of what casued the problem to begin with, that being government.

No government policy consistent with a free society will reduce the illegitimacy rate in the black community, nor will it reduce the extraordinarily high black drop out rate. Only the black community itself can solve those problems.

Nor will an increase in corporate taxes be an incentive for those corporations to bring those jobs back from offshore. It is likely to have quite the opposite effect.

There were portions of the speech that were well written, and, as usual, his delivery was quite good. But he answered no questions and proposed no solutions.

6 months from now his speech will be pretty much forgotten.

Ishmael

So he proposed no solutions, but still managed to propose that what we need is what you think caused the problem in the first place, more big government.

Which is it, Ish? Did he propose something, or didn't he? You can't have it both ways.

 

[sigh]

One of the most troubling things about the right is it's almost complete lack of a sense of proportion.

They shrug off centuries of discrimination against blacks as an historical irrelevancy, while howling blue blazes at the slightest incident of black hatred directed towards whites.

They accept massive fraud and waste on the part of the military industrial complex, but pop a blood vessel at the thought that some poor person somewhere might get a welfare check they don't deserve.

They ignored decades of hate filled white preachers spitting invective at liberals, at women, at gays, but they are shocked! shocked! to hear the abominations coming from Jeremiah Wright.

But, of course, none of it has anything to do with race.

*grinning* Yes, Q, in this (as you often do) you hit the nail directly on the head.

 

[HB1965]

You're right. I'm a right-leaning liberal (or left-leaning moderate, depending on your point of view), an independent who voted to put Obama in his Senate seat, but voted against our current governor (who's also a Democrat).

I vote the candidates and the issues, not the party.

And this speech did indeed decide me. Oh, I've been a fan of Obama's for some time now, but now I'm an active supporter. I loved the speech. He reached back in time and pulled out the roots of all our racial anger, looked at them from both sides, and recognized that when you understand the roots, then healing can begin. It's like AA. First you have to recognize the problem....

In this, he thinks exactly as I do.

Excellent post!

 

[moana15]

One of the most troubling things about the right is it's almost complete lack of a sense of proportion.

They shrug off centuries of discrimination against blacks as an historical irrelevancy, while howling blue blazes at the slightest incident of black hatred directed towards whites.

They accept massive fraud and waste on the part of the military industrial complex, but pop a blood vessel at the thought that some poor person somewhere might get a welfare check they don't deserve.

They ignored decades of hate filled white preachers spitting invective at liberals, at women, at gays, but they are shocked! shocked! to hear the abominations coming from Jeremiah Wright.

But, of course, none of it has anything to do with race.

This is exactly true.

Bigots are completely incapable of abstract understanding and applying the same standard to their own kind.

 

[Drixxx]

One of the most troubling things about the right is it's almost complete lack of a sense of proportion.

They shrug off centuries of discrimination against blacks as an historical irrelevancy, while howling blue blazes at the slightest incident of black hatred directed towards whites.

They accept massive fraud and waste on the part of the military industrial complex, but pop a blood vessel at the thought that some poor person somewhere might get a welfare check they don't deserve.

They ignored decades of hate filled white preachers spitting invective at liberals, at women, at gays, but they are shocked! shocked! to hear the abominations coming from Jeremiah Wright.

But, of course, none of it has anything to do with race.

The right's hallmark is hypocrisy.

Drugs vs alcohol. Gay sex vs hetro sex. Sex in general. Separation of church and state. Virtually anything in the Constitution except the the parts about owning guns.

 

[commonfreeman]

This liberal kiss each other asses love fest is such bullshit. Ferraro comments hit the nail on head, If Obama was not considered black, he would not be a presidential candidate. Period. He is a one term Senator with no political accomplishments other than having good speech writers, a slick delivery and subtely playing the race card for all it worth. I used to think he was at least sincere, no I doubt that.

 

[commonfreeman]

This is exactly true.

Bigots are completely incapable of abstract understanding and applying the same standard to their own kind.

The same goes with the liberal bigots on this board who have no problem attacking people for their religious beliefs yet seem so racially sensative.

 

[zipman]

I don't like to cast myself in the role of victim-- My grandmother may have been a
victim, her grandmother was definitely a victim, however, I am not. But, I can tell
you this, conditions and limits placed on a man can do terrible things to his
psyche, pushes him to places he'd rather not go.

I wish I could see the racism and anti-Americanism-- Unless stating your opinion,
no matter how ill informed, is anti-American and racist, then yes, I guess he is.

Stating your opinion is not being anti-american. Using inflammatory rhetoric to accuse the US government of crimes it did not commit by inflaming racial hatred is anti-American if you go by the ideals of our country.

I'm not minimizing any pain or feelings of suffering that black people may have. I'm denouncing what I consider to be anti-American and racist comments.

I've never heard Obama say anything that shows that he shares those views and I am not painting him with the same brush as rev. Wright, but I will say that I think he should have denounced them sooner than on the campaign trail.