Nucular vs Nuclear

[Texan]

Note to MC and anyone else that was asking about Bush's SAT scores.

I did a quick google search and found about 500 sources for Bush's SAT scores. I don't like Salon Mag, but here is just one.

http://archive.salon.com/politics2000/feature/2000/04/17/sat/


It seems that up until the mid 80's the scores were not scored by increments of 10. Scores had steadily dropped for years, and some people were complaining that the test was racially biased. So, the "College Board" which designs and grades the test, made radical changes in the test and the scoring methods. On their own website, they caution people not to compare scores achieved by people who graduated during different decades.

Bush did score a 1206 on his SAT, and for Topher, there is absolutely no possible way to translate an ACT score into an SAT score. That opinion is from my ex-brother in law, who is a statistician for College Board.

By the way, anyone who thinks Bush is stupid hasn't met him or enjoyed his quick wit and sense of humor. I highly respect the intelligence of GW, and I base that on personal experience.

 

[teddybear4play]

I certainly prefer my accent to that of Indianans, who seem to be on the verge of weeping every time they speak in that nasally whine.

That's "Hoosiers," motherfucker!

And yes, my voice is a little nasally. Eat me.

TB4p

 

[Topher]

. . .

I did a quick google search and found about 500 sources for Bush's SAT scores. I don't like Salon Mag, but here is just one.

. . .

http://archive.salon.com/politics20...ned that Gore took Bush to school on the SAT.

 

[Topher]

That's "Hoosiers," motherfucker!

And yes, my voice is a little nasally. Eat me.

TB4p

Sorry, TB4p, I had to select a victim to demonstrate that not everyone thinks that a redneck twang is the worst accent on the planet.

I'm sure not all of you sound like that. To be fair a lot of Ohians have the same accent.

 

[Topher]

Well, at least I am not the only one who is paranoid:

A 566 verbal would not have gotten you into the Yale Class of 1968, especially with mediocre prep-school grades, if you weren't also the son—and grandson, for good measure—of a Yale alumnus.

source

 

[Azwed]

You can't really compare SAT scores that are more then 10 some years old anyway because the test is changed over time.

 

[Topher]

There was some "inflation" of scores, apparently, in 1996, but the point is that Shrub's score, in any year, would preclude most anyone else from being accepted to Yale had it been their score.

If Bush had shown any evidence of erudition aside from his SAT score, then I would not harp on it so much. Let's also not forget that I didn't bring it up. The person who did bring it into discussion tried to present it in a favorable light, and, because I don't have a feel for what is a good score when it comes to the SAT, that tactic fooled me for a while.

It turns out that his score, like everything else about him except for his wallet, was actually pretty mediocre, and, in fact, a lot of people were snickering at it when it was first revealed.

 

[Azwed]

I got a 1300 on my SAT the second time I took it. I got just over 600 math and just under 700 verbal. Both are very good stores but I doubt they ever would have gotten me into harvard or yale.

 

[Topher]

Which is exactly my point, Azwed.

 

[Topher]

Admissions is need blind: yes
Percent of freshmen who submitted GPA: 99%
Percent of student body in each high school class rank: Top tenth: 95%
Top quarter: 99%
Top half: 100%
Average SAT I: 740 verbal, 730 math, 1470 combined
Average ACT: 31 English, 31 math, 31 composite
Test taken by majority of applicants: SAT I

source

Wow, that is for 2001-2002. I wonder what the stats were in 1989?

 

[Daedalus77]

Logic

Based on this thread I have decided that John F. Kennedy was an idiot because he came from a rich powerful family and pronounced Cuba as Cuber.

 

[teddybear4play]

Re: Logic

Based on this thread I have decided that John F. Kennedy was an idiot because he came from a rich powerful family and pronounced Cuba as Cuber.

*coffee spew*

TB4p

 

[Topher]

Re: Logic

Based on this thread I have decided that John F. Kennedy was an idiot because he came from a rich powerful family and pronounced Cuba as Cuber.

Thank you for providing an example what it means to pronounce a word with an accent as opposed to mispronouncing a word.

Kennedy was indeed privileged, and I'm sure that many of the opportunities he had in his life were due primarily to that fact. I don't know - maybe the Clan even bought him his Pulitzer - what do you think? Is the ghost writer charge true?

Sure, I have a good bit of blue-collar envy for the blue bloods. It galls me that I was born with more smarts than a good portion of the people who graduate from Ivy League schools.

That is not the point I was trying to make, however. The point is that Shrub squandered his opportunites. Kennedy most certainly did not.
If you really want me to break out the evidence, quote after quote demonstrating Bush's tenuous grasp of the English language, I will.

Oh, you will poo-poo that I am sure. How petty it is of me to harp on his flubs and malapropisms. They prove nothing; don't I ever get tongue-tied?

It is not merely the frequency of his blunders, however. It is also the kind of errors he makes that is worrisome.

"Nobody needs to tell me what I believe. But I do need someone to tell me where Kosovo is." - Shrub (bwa ha ha ha)

He once, in a rare demonstration of honesty, answered Tucker Carlson's request to name something he is not good at by saying, "Sitting down and reading a 500-page book on public policy or philosophy or something."

<shiver>

Quite a difference there is between a man that would say that and a man who sat down an wrote a 200-odd-page book, no?

 

[JazzManJim]

Thanks, that’s all I was looking for (aside from an answer).

My source was the Washington Post, March 19, 2000.



Topher, when you or anyone else scores 200 points above the mean, that's a good score. It is, by definition, above average. Even you place it in approximately the 80th percentile, well above average. Readjusting the argument does no good. The numbers are what they are.

And it's also a specious argument to support a claim that someone is unintelligent just because you can find someone who is smarter. Gore scored above Bush, but so what? Marilyn vos Savant is smarter than you, based on raw IQ, but that does not make you unintelligent.

YOu also argue that Bush "squandered" his opportunities. I hardly think that owning a major-league baseball team, amassing a comfortable amount of wealth, and becoming President of the United States is in any way "squandering". You're grasping at straws now.

 

[morninggirl5]

Well, it's not like 1206 is even that impressive of a score in retrospect. I took only the ACT. I don't have a cozy familiarity with the SAT, so I'm not even sure what a "good" score is. With the ACT (the pre-90's one) I can tell you without consideration that 30 is a great score, and anything above 25 is ok.

I scored at the 99th %ile on the ACT, and in the 99th %ile in every section of it besides Math (96th %ile).

A 1200 on the SAT puts one in about the 80th %ile on the present-day test. I am going to assume that such a score was similarly mediocre in Bush's day until I find some solid stats that say otherwise.

Now, of course, there is not a one-to-one correlation between a score on one test and a score on another. That goes for any two tests - not just the ACT and the SAT. But I think that the fact that the SAT and the ACT are designed to test a similar set of skills means that there is a fairly good chance that one's performance on one would indicate his likely performance on the other.

Based upon my performance on the ACT and Bush's on the SAT, among other indicators, I have no doubt that my intellect could wipe the floor with Shrub's.

Thanks for the Salon article, Texan. In it I learned that Gore took Bush to school on the SAT.

Let's discuss standardized tests a moment. Despite your "superior" intellect, you have no clue about standardized tests.

First, a 30 on the ACT is NOT the 99th percentile. Not even close. The top score on the ACT is 36.

Standardized tests compare you with others who took the same test at the same time and despite all you hear form politicians are not a good basis to judge anything educationally or intellectually.

The ACT and SAT do not test similar skills. As an educator, i can tell you that they are designed to assess completely different skills and concepts. The ACT has additional sections dealing with Reading Comprehension, Social Studies, and Science. The SAT has only a Verbal and Math section. Each test is designed to be valid and reliable to the criteria that specific test is assessing. They are not in any way designed to be comparable across test versions OR to any other test.

As a student, i took both. I found the ACT to be relatively easy if a student has good reading comprehensions skills and a basic knowledge of the content. On the other hand, the SAT does not lend itself to using strategies such as reading comprehension and logical elimination to determining correct answers.

If you're going to be so stupid as to base your judgement of intellect on one standardized test, then I'm going to be the judge in this case, because i took both tests and scored higher than you, Bush, AND Gore.


My judgement. Bush is more intelligent than both you and Gore. He has the intelligence to know when to seek advice and knowledge from others and when to stand up for what he believes is right without consulting a public opinion poll first.

 

[JazzManJim]

Re: Re: Logic

He once, in a rare demonstration of honesty, answered Tucker Carlson's request to name something he is not good at by saying, "Sitting down and reading a 500-page book on public policy or philosophy or something."

Who is, exactly?

I mean, you may wish to tell us that you keep Plato's "Charmides" or Charles Murray's "Losing Ground" on your toilet tank for light reading, but I'd find it nearly impossible to believe.

I'm willing to bet that there are fewer than a couple of dozen people in the US who consider themselves "good" at reading such books and most of them would be lying.

 

[Topher]

First, a 30 on the ACT is NOT the 99th percentile. Not even close. The top score on the ACT is 36.

Thanks, educator. Now, let me teach you something. I did not say that a score of 30 and the ACT is in the 99th percentile. I said that I consider 30 to be a great score. If you are going to address a claim that someone has made, then make sure that he has actually made it.

I took the test in October of 1988 [see attachment]. Shortly thereafter the test was restructured.

I scored 32/35 on that ACT. That placed me in the 99th percentile. According to American College Testing, a 32 on that test is, more or less, equivalent to a 33 on the present 36-point-composite-score test.

I don't make a determination regarding someone's intelligence based solely upon his performance on a standardized test. My estimation that Bush has a mediocre intellect is based on my observations of his vacant expression and the inanities that pass his lips.

Someone else it was who submitted Bush's SAT score for consideration.

Finally, I bet my ACT score beats yours. Unfortunately I never took the SAT so I can't lord that score over you.


Edited to change 1998 to 1988 ugh - I fixed it once before submitting, but I had attachment-related bitching and it fucked it up.

 

[just pet]

This thread is longer than the SAT, ACT and the OED put together

You defintely get points for tenacity

 

[Topher]

And, even had I claimed that a score of 30 were in the 99th percentile, which I did not, your counterclaim that a score of 30 on the present-day test is "not even close" to being in the 99th percentile is fallacious by most people's definition of "close" I would wager:

ninety-seven

 

[Topher]

First, a 30 on the ACT is NOT the 99th percentile. Not even close. The top score on the ACT is 36.

What does the top score, per se, have to do with determining percentiles? What are you doing - dividing 30 by 36?

 

[morninggirl5]

First, a 30 on the ACT is NOT the 99th percentile. Not even close. The top score on the ACT is 36.

Thanks, educator. Now, let me teach you something. .

Finally, I bet my ACT score beats yours. Unfortunately I never took the SAT so I can't lord that score over you.

You would be wrong. And i highly doubt you would be able to lord a SAT score over me. Those few people who would be able to lord a score over me are in agreement with me that one standardized test score is meaningless. Obviously, you saw that i'm an educator and took the "those that can do, those that can't teach" idiocy as truth.

 

[Topher]

You would be wrong. And i highly doubt you would be able to lord a SAT score over me. Those few people who would be able to lord a score over me are in agreement with me that one standardized test score is meaningless. Obviously, you saw that i'm an educator and took the "those that can do, those that can't teach" idiocy as truth.

That would another assumption on your part. Why are you so defensive?

For the last three years I have been a teaching assistant. It was the most rewarding job I have ever had. I am even thinking about ignoring the career for which I have been trained and becoming a teacher instead.

You said you took the ACT? What did you make?

 

[morninggirl5]

First, a 30 on the ACT is NOT the 99th percentile. Not even close. The top score on the ACT is 36.

What does the top score, per se, have to do with determining percentiles? What are you doing - dividing 30 by 36?

No, i completely understand percentiles. A percentile score is the ranking of a score in the total of scores if a sufficient number of scores were available to have a the natural bell-curve in the scores.

99th percentile means that the score is higher than 99% of all other scores. 80th percentile means that the score is higher than 80% of all other scores. 50th percentile is the average score. Percentile scores are completely and totally useless in comparing anything other than those scores.

 

[Topher]

Then why did you mention that 36 is the top score? I'm just curious.

 

[morninggirl5]

That would another assumption on your part. Why are you so defensive?

For the last three years I have been a teaching assistant. It was the most rewarding job I have ever had. I am even thinking about ignoring the career for which I have been trained and becoming a teacher instead.

You said you took the ACT? What did you make?

I'm not defensive. I am completely and totally sick of people who have no understanding of standardized testing holding them up as some kind of holy grail.

I took the ACT in the fall of 1985 as a junior in high school. My composite was 34/35. I took the SAT in spring 1986. My score was 1380.