Now this really pisses me off

[Siren]

 

[sch00lteacher]

Oh I can believe it, and yes it is wrong.

Big Brother is watching out for us, again. This isn't new. I knew a lady this happened to way back around 1981, 82. They thought that daddy might be abusing the kids also. Took them a week to figure out he wasn't, and that they were safe with mom.

Of course the kids forgot all about it, yeah, right.

 

[T.H. Oughts]

Yep, the world sucks some times....

 

[Sillyman]

The system regurlarly screws people. The sheer amount of dumb shit and blatant prejudice in family services is absolutely sick-making. My mom is poor so when my baby brother tripped and broke his leg there were investigations for weeks. Of course when a guy I know broke his kids arm no one said anything because he's a yuppie.

 

[Siren]

Yes if you are poor, and reach out for services

 

[Paendragon]

I'm going to play Devil's Advocate on one point.

The protection of the children is paramount, and I think they should be taken out of the home in this situation. For that matter, I think the person being abused should be taken out with them.

The one thing that DOES bother me about this is blaming the person getting abused, as if it's their fault they are getting beaten. That's absurd.

 

[Siren]

good points but one problem

 

[Paendragon]

Re: good points but one problem

CPS is taking out the kids and placing them in foster care

and separating them from the innocent domestic violence victim as if she did something wrong, regardless of whether it is an ongoing situation of abuse or a first time occurance.

they are not protecting her along with her kids.
They are making her jump thru hoops to obtain her kids back.

One incident, the woman went to the hospital and when she got out from her injuries, she found out her kids had been taken away, separated and put in foster care and she had to go thru government requirements to meet their standards to get them united and returned,

months later, still not with her, nor together.

The victims are the kids and
the mother.

and what about the bastard abuser....
nuttin.

something is wrong here when this happens to the poor woman....and the poor kids.

they did nothing wrong.
they shouldnt be punished

Oh, I agree with that 100%. The idea of blaming the person being abused is absurd.

I had no idea they were still keeping the kids from the abusee AFTER she left the husband. That's a load of shit. One the parent takes steps to protect the children, that parent should get the children back immediately.

If the governement is still worried about it, than send someone over to check up once in awhile (it might be an unfair inconvienience, but at least you'd have your children).

We have a strange history in blaming the victims for the crimes against them (see the rape defense of "She wanted it. Look at what she was wearing!"). It sickens me.

 

[Lost Cause]

I'm sure there's a politician somewhere coming up with more definitions of child abuse.
Soon it will be abuse having overweight kids, if you smoke, serve red meat, indulge in risky sports, own a legal firearm and hunt, and drive a auto without airbags!
The door is opening farther that will allow the government to seize your liberty and kids without legal due process. In the future, we will be SO safe from ourselves that death will be preferable to living in chains.
Have a better day!

 

[DannyBoyUK]

I am a defence lawyer in England

There has been an interesting development from prosecution authorities lately in cases of domestic violence.

It has always been a contributing factor to my success rate that victims of domestic violence withdraw charges or dont turn up to the trial - so my clients walk free.

The prosecution have started to witness summons victims to court even when they have declared in advance they want to drop the case.

It creates a lot of sticky situations. SOme would argue that the prosecution are adding to the stressed lives of victims. On the other hand, the prosecution would say they are trying to do all that they can to punish violent (usually) men etc.

Statistics have shown that in those cases where a complaint is withdrawn, there is usually another incident of domestic violence within six months.

 

[Cheyenne]

*bump*

I agree with Siren.

Is this shit happening in the rest of the country, too?

 

[ksmybuttons]

A Real Ethical Dilemma.

I sat and thought about this. My first inclination is to say how very wrong. Then I think of the children.

Are they safe? Do I feel it is my duty to keep them safe? Is exposure to a victim personality any better than that of a violent personality? Where is my responsibility and what is the government's responsibility? When do I want the government to protect?

If a person of domestic violence goes to the hospital, how many times prior to that has she been victimized at a lesser level in the relationship?

What can be done to fix the problem? How, as a nation, do we build self esteem so that people don't stay in the victim role?

What are the basic standards of care of a parent for a child that the CPS requires?

Hmmm.

 

[Siren]

Kissy, it is worse for the children and the victim to separate them

 

[Guest]

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Kissy, it is worse for the children and the victim to separate them

Funny thing is, they dont take away the kids from rich families with DV. Only punish the families that are........

Victims while being poor.

Is this really what happens? I know I live a sheltered life when it comes to things like domestic violence. It just isn't part of my life (thank God.) But are there set rules as to what has to happen in these cases? Like if the police are called, the person being complained about has to be hauled to jail no matter what. No judgment involved. Is there anything like that for the rules of what to do with children of such cases?

 

[Siren]

there are no set rules Cheyenne

 

[ksmybuttons]

Re: Kissy, it is worse for the children and the victim to separate them

Just when the victim is finally leaving and trying to get their lives together and safe, both are punished and separated.
Thereby making it more difficult for both to start a new life together and move on.

Thereby making their lives worse, more traumatic and lonelier.

And thereby insuring that the kids feel guilt, anquish and anger over what is going on, and then blaming mom for going to authorities and causing all this. Remember, kids wont distinquish between the abuser being the cause, and the victim being innocent....they will think in their anger that it is moms fault they are in a new home with strangers cuz she let dad hit her and she called authorities.

Why not do something that would really help both instead of making it worse?

Why not get both into counseling, therapy or some other kind of assistance? And then insuring they will continue onward with a new life?

Cuz that costs more money that is why. It is cheaper to take these poor families and split them up, then to help them out.

If you are abused and poor.........you will get fucked by the system.

I still find it to be a moral dilemma. I can see both sides. It is not good to see victimization of a loved one. Rarely have I seen a physical abuse victim not also be verbally abused and, if the children are in that environment, they are experiencing it, too. If it is parent against parent, the children are put in a position of trying to come to terms with their love for both people who are each not mentally healthy.

When people are poor, they get fucked by the system anyway. A person doesn't have to be abused for that to happen. It is a system that causes dependence. Lost options and choices. They feel powerless and that creates a whole other environment for them to deal with.

I guess I could only have an opinion on an individual situation and not a collective cry of anger or wrongness. I do find the whole thing very, very sad.

 

[lickerish]

This isn't just happening on the east coast, that's for sure.

I have a very good friend who, by law, had to let her kids visit her ex- husband every other weekend. One weekend one of her daughters came home with bite marks all over her body.. my friend became irate and demanded to know what happened. The daughter became withdrawn and explained that she and her daddy had been wrestling around and were biting eachother. The thing is, she had full sets of teeth marks all over her, not obvious play marks. My friend waited until the next day to call the police, because the kids had come home late that night and wanted them to get rest w/o having the police keep them up late.. long story short.. the police took her kids away from her because she waited til the next day to call.

The ex- husband didn't get into trouble until after the weeks-long investigation was over.. and that's when she finally got her kids back.

Child Protective Service over here sucks.. they don't ever do the right thing. Another friend called them to report her ex mother in law for being neglectful (serious, she'd leave her babies to fend for themselves all day long, in poopy diapers, no food.. etc.) but they wouldn't investigate because my friend wouldn't give them her name (she wanted to be anonymous). Idiots.

 

[Siren]

Yea, so mny stories like this Lickerish

 

[paganangel]

who, am i misunderstandingyou?!

Like if the police are called, the person being complained about has to be hauled to jail no matter what. No judgment involved. Is there anything like that for the rules of what to do with children of such cases?

no trial? no due process?

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: who, am i misunderstandingyou?!

no trial? no due process?

I think it is just for the night. It eliminates the police showing up and seeing that a fight has taken place, but not being able to do anything because the victim now says everything is "fine." Siren would know better, but I think that is the way it works.

 

[paganangel]

i see the point

the thing is, if charges are filed they are removed for the night. they wouldn't be released until arraignment.

i only brougt it up because i thought i saw an irony in the statement. the children are removed without due process under the very same logic.

 

[Woodmiester]

Oh well, guess maybe making a few hate me needed to start sooner or later so here I go....

While I agree that this is something that's maybe not right, lets look at a few things that have lead up to this and for those of you outside of the United States this might not be your case so indulge me a second.
America is too damn politically correct and we've let it become that way and it's now being used to tear some of the foundation away. We let it happen by doing nothing when laws such as these are put on the books. We let it happen when we see some ass running for office but do we take an active role in their losing, no. We're sheep.
Next, I see a few of you are lawyers and you deal with these folks in a safer situation. Well I dealt them them during their "moments" as I'm sure a few other on Lit have, on the streets as a cop. There's nothing that made me feel as if I was wasting my time than to get on a scene, the women is bleeding, battered, crying, screaming for us to do our job only to have her attack us as soon as we go to cuff the attacker. So many LEO have lost their lives in this way. And then it gets better when she won't follow through and press charges. Maybe that's a reason it's gotten out of hand, ever think of that?
We as adults and parents must regain control of our lives and we let our government help us do this, but we, We the people set these rules, not a select few.
Taking the kids out of these homes isn't good, but if the victim allows the abuse to happen and you know full well far too many do again and again, then I have to agree she or he if it's the women doing the abuse, are permitting these children to be exposed and they should be removed till the alledged adults get their collective shit together.
This is our Nation folks, stop being sheep...

_________________________________
Some people are blind, other just fucking stupid

 

[paganangel]

wood...

remind me to add you to my list ot lit members i love

 

[Woodmiester]

Re: wood...

remind me to add you to my list ot lit members i love

Okay but I don't kiss on the first date