Now Kosovo and Bosnia want to join NATO

[pecksniff]

Story.

As Russia’s influence grows in the Western Balkans and war rages in Ukraine, the leaders of Kosovo and Bosnia and Herzegovina have said joining NATO would help preserve regional security.

Since February 24, when President Vladimir Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine citing Russia’s opposition to Ukraine’s potential NATO membership as a leading concern, fears have simmered that the crisis may spread to the Western Balkans.

Russia’s alleged moves in the Western Balkans have been documented over the years and include attempts at facilitating coups in Montenegro and North Macedonia before their NATO membership in 2017 and 2020, respectively.

For Bosnia and Kosovo, having experienced mass killings committed by Serb forces in the 1990s under the administration of then Serbian President Slobodan Milosevic, both countries have made it a strategic goal to join the United States-led transatlantic military alliance.

The pair remain the last non-NATO members in the region, aside from Serbia which views NATO as its “enemy”.

 

[pecksniff]

This is potentially provocative, because Serbia still claims Kosovo and its independence is not recognized by all countries.

 

[pecksniff]

Also, the last time NATO took any actual military action was to protect Kosovo from the Serbs. Everybody in the region is bound to remember that.

 

[butters]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...sedgntp&cvid=941924f930ab4548b214af3587034764

The Nordic nation of 5.5 million has traditionally been militarily non-aligned, in part to avoid provoking its eastern neighbour, with which it shares a 1,300 kilometre (830 mile) border.

But Russia's invasion of Ukraine on February 24 saw public support for joining NATO double from 30 to 60 percent, according to a series of polls.

"Never underestimate the capacity of Finns to take rapid decisions when the world changes," former Finnish prime minister Alexander Stubb told AFP.

Himself a long-time NATO advocate, Stubb now believes Finland making a membership application is "a foregone conclusion" as Finns re-evaluate their relationship with their neighbour.

 

[pecksniff]

Sweden too.

 

[Champakian]

Well, they see what happens when you're not in NATO and how unwilling the West is to defend liberty.

I don't blame them and while you might claim is is provocative,
the fact is, they are being provoked into this school of thought.

 

[mayfly13]

Well, they see what happens when you're not in NATO and how unwilling the West is to defend liberty.

I don't blame them and while you might claim is is provocative,
the fact is, they are being provoked into this school of thought.

bingo. Two contradictory things I noticed too about the conflict.

On one hand countries who are already in NATO are having a collective "phew"..... and I think they're right, NATO Won't abandon binding legislation et if they're attacked.

BUT for me, Western politicians DID abandon Ukraine.
Starting mid-last year when their Intels and analysts (brilliant bodies btw) started telling them unequivocally that Russia Will attack.
And yes, I agree with Keith, ill87 LupusDei that they can't do no-fly zone so they're sending good armament instead blah blah blah
But I feel that they COULD have done something more productive, and all the meetings and talks and shows of support and Slava Ukraini are just self-serving masturbation to cover for Their image, and to deflect from the fact that they decided months ago to feed Ukraine to the dogs,.

Could you please ellaborate more on what you just wrote.

 

[LupusDei]

Well, they see what happens when you're not in NATO and how unwilling the West is to defend liberty.

I don't blame them and while you might claim is is provocative,
the fact is, they are being provoked into this school of thought.

Well, indeed.

Finland never had illusion and had enjoyed being NATO without being NATO for quite a while, but it's becoming obvious the risks of such ambivalence are growing. It's almost a done deal, the question is rather when not if now.

Sweden was, and partly still are under delusion they have no immediate threats. They're been waking up recently and scrambling to rearm.

For both the critical now is to bridge the gap between application for membership and full guarantees. In Finland's context I have seen speculation on an admission process as short as 24 hours... its quite an opportunity for Sweden to piggyback on Finn's hard work.

As to Ukraine.

While there's undeniable poetic in letting the Ukraine to win alone, and I'm myself in the school of thought that might be the only way to actually defeat Russia (or that full NATO involvement bear risks to rescue Putin's regime), but the way, amounts and timing of the help been often beyond frustrating.

Partly it can be explained with increasingly obvious sabotage by Germany too deeply infiltrated by Russian interests... There's been near criminal indecisiveness and badly mismanaged communication from other actors, although some of those can be forgiven as just unavoidable flaws of open democracy.

 

[Champakian]

I appreciate your insight. You are much closer to it that I am.

 

[mayfly13]

I'm hugely disgusted by the Western political class, actually.
And becoming more nationalistic and proud to be from EE,

All this "Slava Ukrainii we are kind and care" that Western politicians are doing, is such typical Anglo hollow self-serving image management.
You don't see EE's doing disingenuous PC. We tell it as it is.

 

[Champakian]

Bingo, maybe, but I also worry about how far Putin might be willing to go to avoid obvious defeat.

Genocide is the least of it. What do we do if he decides to use a small tactical nuke or two?

More sanctions?

 

[Champakian]

In the US, I think there is a feeling that there is nothing in this for us
and that Europe is not interested in anyone else but us defending them
and that it is time to let Europe fall on its won accord if it doesn't see
the danger of the wolf on its doorstep. Much of the electorate is tired
of war, beaten down by Covid and just wanting a return to normal and
to turn our energies to domestic issues; live and let live (die)...

But that's just me trying to read the tea leaves from the Bootheel.
It's a really big country and opinions vary.

 

[Champakian]

On the upside, the number of drilling rigs is increasing.
We need to return to the energy independence we
enjoyed before the Left installed Mean Joe Green
into the White House...


(And I am an all-of-the-above guy when it comes to energy.
Windmills? Fine. Solar panels. Good. Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.)

 

[ll74]

On the upside, the number of drilling rigs is increasing.
We need to return to the energy independence we
enjoyed before the Left installed Mean Joe Green
into the White House...


(And I am an all-of-the-above guy when it comes to energy.
Windmills? Fine. Solar panels. Good. Just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.)

What was the net export/import number we were at and what is the number we're at now?

If Joe hates oil, how is he letting them get away with increasing drilling?

 

[mayfly13]

In the US, I think there is a feeling that there is nothing in this for us
and that Europe is not interested in anyone else but us defending them ====

Much of the electorate is tired
of war, beaten down by Covid and just wanting a return to normal and
to turn our energies to domestic issues; live and let live (die)...

But that's just me trying to read the tea leaves from the Bootheel.
It's a really big country and opinions vary.

well, I totally agree with the sentiment.
Your laypeople are struggling, your patriotic duty lies to Your people first.

and that it is time to let Europe fall on its won accord if it doesn't see
the danger of the wolf on its doorstep.

DW (of all channels) and Baltic countries are putting a lot of the onus on Germany for going ahead with the pipeline, despite knowing what Russia did in Georgia.

 

[Champakian]

Germany decided to drop everything (baby-bathwater)
and now have to pay Dane's Geld to keep the lights on.

I really have no sympathy for them.
The Left says: Go Green! Go Woke!
I say: Go Green! Go Broke!

 

[Champakian]

What was the net export/import number we were at and what is the number we're at now?

If Joe hates oil, how is he letting them get away with increasing drilling?

If he loves oil, why did he shut down Keystone and cancel drilling permits on federal land?

Boy, oh boy, the question game is so much more fun that expressing and defending a position.

 

[Champakian]

Since this is a morning of implication,
rigs are increasing on private lands
where Joe cannot wave a magic wand
and pronounce unicorn power...

If nothing else, he's made exploration and drilling profitable and
we know how much the Left likes Big Oil making Big Profits!!!

 

[ll74]

If he loves oil, why did he shut down Keystone and cancel drilling permits on federal land?

Boy, oh boy, the question game is so much more fun that expressing and defending a position.

He didn't cancel any permits. He stopped approving new permits. The keystone pipeline is still pumping as much oil as it was before Biden took office for our friends in Canada.

So it sounds like we are importing more oil than ever before and that our net exports/inports are slanted horribly towards exporting....probably worse than Jimmy Carter.

 

[ll74]

Since this is a morning of implication,
rigs are increasing on private lands
where Joe cannot wave a magic wand
and pronounce unicorn power...

If nothing else, he's made exploration and drilling profitable and
we know how much the Left likes Big Oil making Big Profits!!!

Do they pump less oil on private land? Or is it required to be public land in order to bring down gas prices?

Yah...probably oil companies don't have any private land anymore

 

[Champakian]

When we had rational energy policies, they actually capped wells as not to dive a price collapse
that would cap their companies. You really haven't followed this issue it would seem.

I have private (inherited family) land in Arkansas and Kansas that
has oil and gas leases on it that I get paid for.

That's how it works...

 

[Champakian]

That was as infantile as your "just don't crime no more..."

 

[ll74]

When we had rational energy policies, they actually capped wells as not to dive a price collapse
that would cap their companies. You really haven't followed this issue it would seem.

I have private (inherited family) land in Arkansas and Kansas that
has oil and gas leases on it that I get paid for.

That's how it works...

So we're bet importing oil and gas worse than any point in history because of public lands and Biden......the worst....energy deeepensentands

 

[ll74]

That was as infantile as your "just don't crime no more..."

Yah, quoting would've been a good idea here.....but hey...lazy gotta be lazy

 

[ll74]

When we had rational energy policies, they actually capped wells as not to dive a price collapse
that would cap their companies. You really haven't followed this issue it would seem.

I have private (inherited family) land in Arkansas and Kansas that
has oil and gas leases on it that I get paid for.

That's how it works...

I'm sure that next Biden will cease your land so you can't oil on it anymore.

Jerk