Not your stereotypical 'does size matter' thread

[SonOfAGhost]

I haven't had much time for writing lately either in forum or story. After some time away from the site I returned to find that there's still a sprinkling of both 'is my dick big enough' threads and snide remarks by site regulars about such threads. So for a bit of laugh and a challenge I'd thought I'd try to find a way to turn things around and create one that had some merit.

I'm asking in the context of story writing (AH forum after all). I'm not just asking about penis size either but also height, weight and the usual body circumference measurements. There seems to be 3 schools of thought (or habit without thought I guess)

- There's plenty of stories with numbers/measurements. It seems to me those mostly written by male contributors. x" cock, x lbs, x'x" tall, xx" chest etc.

- Then there's those that just use adjectives. Long, slender, petite, big etc.

- Even less common are those that don't mention size at all and only occaisionally allude to it. 'He bent to kiss her' as an example, tells us 'he' is taller but they could still both be under 5' or over 6'.

So now the questions
Have I missed a 4th group?
Which to you prefer when writing? Or when reading?
Which seems to get the most favourable reaction either in general or from particular sub-groups of this site's audience?

Basically descriptions in any written material depend on how clear a picture the author wants to paint vs. (at least in fiction) how much they want to leave to the readers imagination. This probably becomes a bigger consideration writing for a site dealing in erotic (mostly) fantasy.

/discuss

 

[English Lady]

If I see a measurement in the story, I am likely not to continue. I don't want to know her weight/boobsize/height/hip measurement and I sure as hell don't want to know how "big" his cock is. It just completely ruins a story, for me. Especially if it's a foot long and as wide as a baseball bat. That kind of description just makes me cringe!

I think virtually every female character I've written has been curvy, sometimes plump but always I alude to her being voluptuous. In some stories it's more obvious than others,but then I don't go into great detail about build unless i feel it's relevent to the story or a characters personality.

 

[York]

I would broadly agree with English Lady. I find the stories where the character takes "his 7" dick in his hand" or her "38DDs had my 8" dick springing to attention" come across as amateurish and awkward. The most laughable ones are things like "My penis is only 7", but..."

I suppose there might be occasions where a character has a weird fetish for women with large breasts or a bloke with a large penis where it would be important to the plot to mention size, but I'm struggling to think of one!

 

[English Lady]

I prefer to get the image in a more realistic way. I don't look at a penis and go "oh yes thats a good 7 inches" and although some may know a womans bra size at a glance, I certainly can't do that myself.

So, descriptions of the girth stretching her, her struggling to get all of him in to her mouth etc would all give an indication of size, without needing stats. I don't mind that too much at all.

Breasts can be measured by the handful or a man can bury his face fully between them or need both hands to cup one breast etc to let me know those are some big buswoms!

I prefer that more natural way to take in the information to a list of stats

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

As usual, I'm in agreement with English Lady.

Discription of a character's body can be either direct or indirect, specific or imprecise. I prefer inidirect and imprecise both when reading and writing.

There are situations in which direct works best, and specific "might" be called for under certain circumstances. But IMHO those circumstances are very rare.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[lil_elvis]

Put my vote down with Rumply and EL. I avoid referring to specific body measurements, preferring general descriptives like "lean", "full", "soft", etc.

I can only recall one instance of using the dreaded cup size, but that had more to do with a character's thought process, rather than a specific and direct description of a character.

 

[dreampilot79]

I think that measuring the length of a penis is perhaps a male thing... a feeling of inadequacy? She might love me more if only I had 8" instead of 6?

Perhaps I lead a sheltered life... but I have yet to meet a woman who grabs the tape measure before grabbing her partner.

Some women may like big ones better than small... but seldom do they seem to feel the need to quantify big.

Rump.. you and I have had this discussion before.. but I think (at least to some extent) that what YOU DON'T say can be as important as what you do.... leave the reader's imagination to fill in the blanks.... and project their "perfect" appendage into the story.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

When you see someone new walk into the room, how likely are you to think, "Hey, she's five foot seven and 145 pounds!" Not very. Instead you're trying to place what kind of person this is and what they might mean to you: "Whoa! She's hot!" or "He looks like a smug son of a bitch!" That's what the reader wants to know. At 5'7" and 145 lbs, she might be tight and curvaceous or she might be dumpy. Which is it?

Similarly, when the clothes come off, how important is it that he's 8.5 inches rather than 7? Does either of those numbers make a difference or help me see it? He could be 10 inches long and drooping like a hose or 5 inches and proud as a rearing stallion. It's the quality that matters, not the dimensions.

One of the problems I have with cup-size descriptions is that they don't tell you what her tits look like. If she's 44-DD, she could have high, proud breasts, or they could be hanging around her waist. Which do you mean? Throwing out a number doesn't tell me a damn thing except that the author apparently lacks any power of description.

That's the real problem with wanted-poster descriptions. They don't really tell you what you want to know.

 

[cloudy]

I have used "tall" and in some stories I describe a protag's hair color, and sometimes even the color of their eyes, but that's about as much detail as I go into. For me, the story's the thing, not what a character looks like.

Just my two cents.

 

[English Lady]

As usual, I'm in agreement with English Lady.

*snip*

And this is why I you.


Dr M has a good point too - the stats just don't tell you what you want to know.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I admit having used specific measurements at times in the past, mostly because I thought that it was relevant to the woman's pleasure or lack thereof. In hindsight (which TRULY IS 20/20 IMO), several of those cases could have done without it. It is an important mental note for future writing. Of course, a lot of my stories contain no measurements at all.

One time that I think it WAS relevant was in the story "Matchmaking Trap- Chapter 3", because the woman in question was still emotionally attached to a man with a small dick, IN SPITE of his inability to completely satisfy her. She wasn't IN LOVE with him, but she had a difficult time resisting his pathetic adoration of her. This leads to a rather extreme solution, as anyone who has read that story knows.

Another case was in "Angie's An Adult", where it is noted the man's wife is too hung up on large cocks to appreciate her own husband's, even though it is not exactly small. That turns out to not be such a problem for the cuckolded husband's new teenage lover, who is a rather petite girl and doesn't want something large enough to hurt her.

 

[sophia jane]

I don't like measurements either. The only exception to this rule, for me, is if I'm talking about a toy and that's cuz when you buy a toy, you're likely to know how big it is cuz it's on the package. Men, on the other hand, don't have that.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

If she's 44-DD, she could have high, proud breasts

either she's just turned 18, or she has excellent genes... or implants

*****

I stop reading a story immediately when I see measurements. Even when I was prior enjoying it... it literally stops me cold. Yuk.

I'm all for leaving it up to the imagination of the reader, and not patronizing them by assuming they don't have one and describing every last detail...

but I'm one of those readers who skips over descriptive paragraphs... reading Tolkien was hell on earth for me... I'm just thinking, "ok so the grass was green, there were hills, lots of flowers, ok already, yaddayaddayadda!" I want to see what happens next...

the most skillful writers, for my personal tastes, throw in those amazing little descriptions in the midst of action... those take my breath away...

and keep my interest... finicky kitty that I am...

Here are a few from Doc's "The Moth's Song" (Halloween Contest Winner a few years back)... these aren't sexual:

"I pulled up in front of it under a sweltering late summer sky the color of a dirty mirror, and before I even cut the engine the front door banged open and Faith came running out."

Me: See how it's in the midst of ACTION? "I pulled up" followed by a beautiful descriptive line, followed by "I cut the engine"... more action...

"The sound of the cicadas was loud in the trees out behind the house, so loud you couldn't hear the sounds of the diesel engines in the big harvester that crawled around in the fields half a mile away, looking like a kid's toys in that expanse of emerald green."

Me: This is all sensory, but feel it... it feels like action, it implies movement... this paragraph doesn't stand still...

This is one from "Snow and the River" (one sexual, one not)

"He saw her coming through the snow. Her black coat and tights and the black scarf she wore made her look like a Chinese character drawn on rice paper. Even at this distance there was no mistaking the way she walked, arms folded over her chest and back straight, eyes on her feet as if they interested her. "

Me: She's walking, he's describing his impression of her... I can see her clear as day, can't you?

and

"His left hand came up and found her breast through her sweater and she remembered his touch, the way he'd loved her inadequate breasts and awkward body and had always found her so beautiful and worthy of love and she sobbed into his mouth as his arm crushed the breath from her body. She felt it all just like he said. She felt the quiet and the loneliness and the beauty pierce her like a knife plunged into her heart"

Me: and here is an example of very hot sex, with the imperfection of real bodies, a beautiful thing...

I'm sorry, but "She was 5'8" with 40D breasts, a body to die for, with legs that went up to here"....

I dunno, maybe it's just me, but it pales in comparison...

 

[rgraham666]

I'm big on descriptions, I've been complemented on it several times.

But I've never included a number. It's not the way people relate to each other.

I usually describe a character quite fully. Usually a paragraph's worth. Some people think that's a mistake, but that's the way I look at a person when I look at them for the first time. I scan them from head to toe. So my descriptions work the same way.

 

[Kev H]

Replying just because I want to reiterate what has been said and beat this issue to death (hopefully).

It's really a matter of writing maturity, imo. Let's face it, most people mature past the "I gotta have measurement to get an idea of how good she is in bed"... LoL, what's wrong with this picture? Everyone older than high school age should be experienced enough to know that a woman with a perfect body might be so full of herself, that she ends up being the least sensual woman on the planet. That woman you passed up for the bimbo might be the sex goddess who will rock your world (to use even more high school jargon).

After a few stories to that extent, even the daftest of people begin to figure out that the two aren't related - that perfect bodies do not equal perfect sex partners (and that does not even address the fact that everyone has a different opinion on what is perfect). I find this especially true when dealing with the more intelligent set...you know, who actually read. Know your target audience...

 

[sophia jane]

Everyone older than high school age should be experienced enough to know that a woman with a perfect body might be so full of herself, that she ends up being the least sensual woman on the planet. That woman you passed up for the bimbo might be the sex goddess who will rock your world (to use even more high school jargon).

How funny that you phrase it like this. I'm working on a story that has elements of this.

 

[Kev H]

How funny that you phrase it like this. I'm working on a story that has elements of this.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

All true. However, the physical is a factor in initial lust, and I have deliberately written about some shallow characters (the point being that they were SUPPOSED to be shallow- that's their personality). Especially in "Stepping Out With Steph", where I have a 19 year old girl reacting (as a girl her age would) to the large dick of her brother. While other factors become apparent later, the initial attraction has to do with a teenage girl's cock lust. Of course, it is also one of my older stories.

In another place, a mother gets "naughty" ideas from looking at her son's large cock. (Mind you, I have also plenty of male characters with average size cocks.) Then again, this is also some of my older material ("Matchmaking Trap"- Chapter 1).

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I use specific measurements and very specific and definte adjectives. I want the reader to see what I am seeing in my head, so my works are heavy on descriptive prose.

I don't think I'm the greatest author around, but I do think I'm decent and I have a following. That's probably a prety good indicator that there is nothing inherently wrong in using specifics.

Basically, it comes down to issues of style and voice in the author. Whatever techniques you use or disavow, in the end, the enjoyability of a work hinges on your level of skill and ability with those techniques.

My readers expect heavy detail. El's readers expect a heroine they can imagine to be exactly what they want. Neither than is right or wrong.

In perspective, this is a minor quibble over one tiny aspect of an author's style. One that probably gets more attention than it really deserves.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I use specific measurements and very specific and definte adjectives. I want the reader to see what I am seeing in my head, so my works are heavy on descriptive prose.

I don't think I'm the greatest author around, but I do think I'm decent and I have a following. That's probably a prety good indicator that there is nothing inherently wrong in using specifics.

Basically, it comes down to issues of style and voice in the author. Whatever techniques you use or disavow, in the end, the enjoyability of a work hinges on your level of skill and ability with those techniques.

My readers expect heavy detail. El's readers expect a heroine they can imagine to be exactly what they want. Neither than is right or wrong.

In perspective, this is a minor quibble over one tiny aspect of an author's style. One that probably gets more attention than it really deserves.

Ah, another useful perspective. I was beginning to feel alone here.

 

[Kev H]

In perspective, this is a minor quibble over one tiny aspect of an author's style. One that probably gets more attention than it really deserves.

On a sex site? No way!

But of course, Colleen, you are right - it is about style, and though I did not state the obvious in my post, it is -obviously- just my opinion that it's a little immaturish (but now that I really think about it, the impression might come from the fact that most stories I read with measurements in them are poorly written...hmm maybe I put the cart before the horse, or whatever).

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Some of it could be how mathematically inclined you are, too.

 

[Belegon]

I could only find one time where I have actually used the hgt. & wgt. numbers...and it was in my first story ever posted here, with the protagonist describing himself.

However, I almost always mention hair color and eye color. Probably because I usually have a person in my head "cast" as that character. The casting could be from my daily life, my memories or even the media. But it is usually there.

The story I always think of when this comes up is Megan's Secrets . Because the entire genesis of that story was a physical description of a girl standing at the yogurt shop talking to her friend that worked there. I think of it like I really did use the numbers and stuff, but reading it, I actually avoided it more than I thought I had. But it is definitely the most detailed description in my work. Here it is...

She had shoulder length blond-brown hair that the sun had bleached to almost platinum on the top. Her body was slender with curves that were sweeping rather than dramatic and she had just a slight swell of a belly that added to the allure in the same way that a slightly asymmetrical rose seems more real than one that is perfect. Her eyes were the blue-green of deep water and she had a small impish nose that turned up slightly near the tip like one of those Turkish slippers you see harem girls wear in old Hollywood movies. Her skin had the healthy glow of someone who is often out of doors without the leathery sheen of the Apollo worshippers who turn back and forth on the beach to a timeclock.

In general terms, Megan was lean but not skinny. She had well-muscled limbs whose definition only showed when she stretched her arms over her head to banish the late afternoon yawns. Her facial bone structure could have been construed as nearly masculine were it not for the rose colored fullness of the lips that were poised over the soft precipice of her chin.

The only part of her that stood out from the theme of slender strength was the round bubble of her ass. It was not pronounced enough to look unnatural but it was full enough that a man's gaze would naturally linger even if being observed and a long stare would definitely be in order if he thought he could get away with it.

 

[Kev H]

I could only find one time where I have actually used the hgt. & wgt. numbers...and it was in my first story ever posted here, with the protagonist describing himself.

However, I almost always mention hair color and eye color. Probably because I usually have a person in my head "cast" as that character. The casting could be from my daily life, my memories or even the media. But it is usually there.

The story I always think of when this comes up is Megan's Secrets . Because the entire genesis of that story was a physical description of a girl standing at the yogurt shop talking to her friend that worked there. I think of it like I really did use the numbers and stuff, but reading it, I actually avoided it more than I thought I had. But it is definitely the most detailed description in my work. Here it is...

She had shoulder length blond-brown hair that the sun had bleached to almost platinum on the top. Her body was slender with curves that were sweeping rather than dramatic and she had just a slight swell of a belly that added to the allure in the same way that a slightly asymmetrical rose seems more real than one that is perfect. Her eyes were the blue-green of deep water and she had a small impish nose that turned up slightly near the tip like one of those Turkish slippers you see harem girls wear in old Hollywood movies. Her skin had the healthy glow of someone who is often out of doors without the leathery sheen of the Apollo worshippers who turn back and forth on the beach to a timeclock.

In general terms, Megan was lean but not skinny. She had well-muscled limbs whose definition only showed when she stretched her arms over her head to banish the late afternoon yawns. Her facial bone structure could have been construed as nearly masculine were it not for the rose colored fullness of the lips that were poised over the soft precipice of her chin.

The only part of her that stood out from the theme of slender strength was the round bubble of her ass. It was not pronounced enough to look unnatural but it was full enough that a man's gaze would naturally linger even if being observed and a long stare would definitely be in order if he thought he could get away with it.

I refuse to like this unless you tell me her cup size.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

On a sex site? No way!

But of course, Colleen, you are right - it is about style, and though I did not state the obvious in my post, it is -obviously- just my opinion that it's a little immaturish (but now that I really think about it, the impression might come from the fact that most stories I read with measurements in them are poorly written...hmm maybe I put the cart before the horse, or whatever).

A laundry list description is amateurish, in that there are better ways to do it usually. Sometimes, however, a laundry list is precisely the best way to do it. If you are telling the story from a first person perspective, and you wish to impart a very stereotypical "frat boy" mentality from your narrator for example.

When he and his buddies are out at the local bar and a girl walks in who catches his fancy, You're almost tied to his impressions being very shallow. El's less definte methodology would seem incongruous to the character. He would be likely to see her as "five seve, blonde, blue eyes, tits like casava melons, legs up to her ass and what an ass!" rather than "short, with a delicate build, soft, intelligent blue eyes set off by a thick blonde mane of hair. etc."

In my humble opinion, there are very few techniques that should draw an instant ix ney from the author. The dreaded mirror scene, for example, has utility. It's especially useful if the caracter is vain, or if she/he has some percieved flaw they are constantly worried about. I wrote a tory about a woman who was a femoral amputee. I would have had to jump thorugh hoops, if I had ruled out using a mirror to explain her warped self perception.

The amatuerism is not in the technique, it's in how they are used, in my opinion. An author who refuses to use a particular technique, because it's "amatuerish" limits him or herself unneccissarily. And occasionally, to the detriment of their work, if the technique is the best applicable for a particular scene.