Not a topic I even like thinking about...

[bisexplicit]

The statistics are atrocious. Around one in every six women is raped in America.

About three-fourths of women know their attackers.



Statistics and Facts about Rape: http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html



How do we stop it? How do we change it?

Why isn't there more being done?

 

[EJFan]

i believe that a significant part of the solution is to move away from the victorian values that we've been stuck with. i'd have to see statistics from other countries but i'd suspect that the more open we are about nudity and sexuality, the less rape there is.

it's so odd... the values that emerged in the victorian era were designed by rich white men to protect their wives from things they felt were distasteful. now they've actually evolved into things that threaten women.

 

[SweetErika]

It's not a topic I like to think about either, but I suspect that's a significant part of the problem...ignorance and avoidance on the part of most people in our society.

A recent thread illustrated that a lot of people don't really know what rape is, or only have a narrow definition. Even the legal definitions vary widely, and most often only cover "a man inserting his penis into a woman's vagina by force." We're throwing the term around, and some women even claim they 'want to be raped' (which I believe is a misnomer, and also can lead to a more casual attitude about it).

I've thought about prevention a fair amount. [The following are simply ideas and contain some generalizations.] I think one of the big things we can do is educate children (age appropriate, of course) on respecting limits of all types. What little education there is is often not done before youths form ideas or become sexually active, so we need to start earlier.

Girls and women need to be taught what can happen, tips for prevention, but that it's not their fault and there's no shame if they couldn't prevent it. We HAVE to remove the stigma of guilt and shame from being assaulted in this way, and I think a lot of that ties in with EJ's ideas. Boys and men need to be taught that their pleasure isn't the end-all-that-be-all, about reading verbal and nonverbal signals, and that sex isn't a way to gain power over others. Parents need to stop thinking, 'Nah...not my son or daughter' and step up to the plate, taking an active role in educating their children and insisting it's part of health/sex ed throughout the school years.

Everyone needs to be educated on what rape and sexual assault in general are, stopping immediately when a partner says "no/stop" even after hearing a "yes" previously, about lesser-known types of rape (e.g. those involving drugs/alcohol/lack of informed consent, acquaintance, date, gang, and GLBT rape.

We need to make reporting easier/less painful and resources more readily available for assault survivors. Apart from not knowing if their experience was technically rape/a crime/something they need help for and the emotional turmoil of the aftermath, a lot of assaults aren't reported because the victims are afraid they won't be believed. We have to find a way to fix that...maybe even more specialized, less intimidating centers that can provide aftercare and reporting, and public education on how reporting is important and WILL be taken seriously would help.

RAINN and similar organizations are great resources, but free help can still be a bitch to find...some police, doctors, universities, and even WOMEN'S CENTERS don't point survivors to help, which absolutely astounds me, and has got to stop. I don't know if it's because there really isn't much help available, or they don't know how to find it themselves, but maybe it's simply a testament to the fact that we (as a society) don't take (especially certain types of) rape as the devastating, life-changing/ending event it is.

A fair number of the women I've met have been raped. I think one in six might be a conservative estimate, which is all the more sickening. More still have been molested or assaulted in child- and/or adulthood.

I don't know what to do to solve it, but we have to stop ignoring and start thinking, learning, and talking about it. Thanks for bringing such an important issue to the forefront and giving us a start, Bi.

 

[warrior queen]

about reading ... nonverbal signals

i agree with everything you said, except this section.
boys and men need to be taught that 'no' means "NO".
end of it.

they should not be taught to read 'non-verbal' signals, as in my own case of rape, the rapist's laughed at me and told me because i became 'wet', it must mean i was enjoying it (being assaulted by 3 men, one after the other.)
my body produced fluid regardless of the fact that i was not enjoying the encounter one bit, but apparently that made it ok for them to continue, and the courts viewed that as evidence that i must have been

into the sexual activity taking place.[unquote]
that was the exact statement.
at no time after that evidence was introduced by the defendents did the court refer to my assault as rape.
all 3 were aquitted of the charges.

non-verbal is not non-consent.... the ONLY thing that boys/men need to know is that one small word....'no'.

 

[SweetErika]

i agree with everything you said, except this section.
boys and men need to be taught that 'no' means "NO".
end of it.

they should not be taught to read 'non-verbal' signals, as in my own case of rape, the rapist's laughed at me and told me because i became 'wet', it must mean i was enjoying it (being assaulted by 3 men, one after the other.)
my body produced fluid regardless of the fact that i was not enjoying the encounter one bit, but apparently that made it ok for them to continue, and the courts viewed that as evidence that i must have been [quote*] into the sexual activity taking place.[unquote]
that was the exact statement.
at no time after that evidence was introduced by the defendents did the court refer to my assault as rape.
all 3 were aquitted of the charges.

non-verbal is not non-consent.... the ONLY thing that boys/men need to know is that one small word....'no'.

Good point. I was actually thinking more along the lines of sensitivity to a partner and clearer nonverbal signals like pushing, crying, laying still/stunned, etc., NOT physiological responses like lubrication or signs of physical arousal. There are cases in which I feel that could help to abort or avoid, and being aware and responding to a partner's cues in general is simply a good thing.

 

[M's girl]

.... as in my own case of rape, the rapist's laughed at me and told me because i became 'wet', it must mean i was enjoying it (being assaulted by 3 men, one after the other.)
my body produced fluid regardless of the fact that i was not enjoying the encounter one bit, but apparently that made it ok for them to continue, and the courts viewed that as evidence that i must have been into the sexual activity taking place.
that was the exact statement.
at no time after that evidence was introduced by the defendents did the court refer to my assault as rape.
all 3 were aquitted of the charges.

What??!!! I can sort of understand the rapists because they didn't know any better anyway, the low-lifes, but the court...???? This is really beyond me! Where was your lawyer who could have come up with the explanation of your natural lubrication? I'm really, really flabbergasted. Hope I don't come across as blunt or anything (caused maybe by me not being a native english speaker) but this is......

..... I'm speechless. And I'm very sorry for you...

 

[M's girl]

.... the ONLY thing that boys/men need to know is that one small word....'no'.

I heard this in a movie somewhere and it's something I have been using eversince... Most of the time, lucky for me, in situations where it also was funny to joke about it, but still.....

The line was: "which part of NO is it that you don't understand...?" That says it all I guess. Movie...? Might have been on Oprah also.... anyway...

 

[warrior queen]

What??!!! I can sort of understand the rapists because they didn't know any better anyway, the low-lifes, but the court...???? This is really beyond me! Where was your lawyer who could have come up with the explanation of your natural lubrication? I'm really, really flabbergasted. Hope I don't come across as blunt or anything (caused maybe by me not being a native english speaker) but this is......

..... I'm speechless. And I'm very sorry for you...

thankyou for your sympathy....

but it was many, many years ago - and i made a decision a few yrs after it happened that i was NOT going to live my life in regret/fear/shame, and have moved well past it since.

 

[M's girl]

thankyou for your sympathy....

but it was many, many years ago - and i made a decision a few yrs after it happened that i was NOT going to live my life in regret/fear/shame, and have moved well past it since.

Good to hear you moved on and are doing better. It takes a strong person I guess....

 

[Brinnie]

The statistics are atrocious. Around one in every six women is raped in America.

About three-fourths of women know their attackers.



Statistics and Facts about Rape: http://www.rainn.org/statistics.html



How do we stop it? How do we change it?

Why isn't there more being done?

I hate men... I sure do.
and these statistics are ludicrous.

Around one in every two million men is raped in America.

Man or women, you touch me - I'll fuckin kill ya
Learn Karate. Pack a knife. End of story.

 

[Guest]

 

[silverwhisper]

warrior queen: very little enrages me faster than stories like yours. i'm glad it's well behind you, but i offer you my sympathies all the same.

ed

 

[bisexplicit]

Erika: I agree with you. I feel like we need institutional changes, especially.
And you brought up a good point about reporting incidents - the "second rape" of the victims because they must repeat their story over and over, and be humiliated by the police/court seems to be counteractive - even if all the other preventitive things were in place.

warriorqueen: I'm amazed by your courage. My sister, who works with victims of sexual and domestic violence, is a court advocate and constantly feels the frustration of the ignorance of people who should know better - judges and lawyers who aren't educated about rape, abuse, harassment, stalking, etc. are.

 

[pamlady63]

I agree...those statistics are atrocious. I would have to say I think that there is more that could be done to prevent female rapes from being so unbelivably common, but the question is WHAT? What do we as Americans have to do on our own to change the stats? I am sure more rapes happen that we aren't aware of and that is even more upsetting.

A major reason I think some rapes do go unreported is because the image the court system has gave to women and how it has failed them. Sure...rapist do get put away, but for how long? Half of them don't even serve half of their "prescribed" sentence. The court system needs to have a stronger backbone for sex crimes. There are hundreds of rapist out there but very few are prosecuted.

Another statistic that blows my mind is that 60% of those incarcerated for rape are guilty of raping a child. Somewhere in America, a woman is raped every 2 minutes, according to the U.S. Department of Justice. The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials. According to the Justice Department, one in two rape victims are under age 18; one in six are under age 12.

Unfortunately in my 42 years of life I have known 2 people who have been raped. One a friend who was raped by her boyfriend at the time. And the second victim was my niece who was raped just 2 years ago by a friends father. Both of the rapes were commited by someone they knew, which sadly proves a statistic to be right. My niece who is 17 now, had a very tough time dealing with her rape, but now she is handling it very well to have been violated in such a terrible way as a child. She even has given a few speeches at schools and local community events on how to go about keeping yourself safe, how to see the warning signs, ways to cope afterwards, and the importance of reporting the rape. I cannot stress how proud I am of her and any of the others who were victims of rape. It takes a lot of courage & I don't think people become aware of the importance and effects of rape until they see someone deal with the effects or they themself go through them.

I think each victim who has the courage to come forward and talk about it and try to educate others (such as my niece has) are those who make the most difference in preventing rape. They give courage to other women, and in a way could make a 'potential rapist' second guess what he has planned if he see's how women around the country are pulling together and that the # of rapes being reported is increasing.

 

[SweetErika]

I was also left speechless....I admire your strength in moving past this and moving on with your life.

This thread is really making me think. I've had the "sex talk" conversations with my two boys (17 and 20) and have left the talk with my daughter (15) to my wife. When my oldest went off to college last year, I reiterated the "safe sex" topics with him, but I can't remember ever discussing consent vs non-consent in any of the discussions. Until now. I think its time for more discussions.

As for my daughter, I'm realizing that I don't really know as much about what they discuss as I should. Its time to find out.

Thanks for the kick in the ass.

That's awesome. One thing my husband was taught was never to have sex with a woman who was under the influence, just in case she couldn't give informed consent. With all of the binge drinking and drugs, I think that was a good lesson, and he always upheld it. At times when we were dating, it pissed me off a little (I get super horny when I drink), but more than that, I always felt respected and cared about...he wouldn't take the chance of hurting me in a million years. He was also always really sensitive to my reactions in bed, and there were times where he stopped cold just to make sure everything was okay because I wasn't my usual vocal self. I think those kinds of things, along with basic education on what could be assault, are really valuable.

I think we all have this idea of how we'd prevent it and what we'd do if we were attacked or raped. Cognitively, we know to fight if we can, be very vocal, try to get out of the situation, go to the doctor/hospital immediately, and report it to the police. However, the reality of what we're able to do in that state can be very different. So, if I had a daughter, I'd teach her all of the prevention and normal reaction stuff, but would also ensure she understood that people just do the best they can with what they have at the time, and reacting differently happens and is perfectly normal. I wouldn't want my daughter to carry so much guilt and pain around because she felt like she didn't do what she should have. I'd also tell her to always use the buddy system at parties and in potentially dangerous situations, and make sure she had a list of resources and trusted people to talk to (parents, old family friend, etc.) if something did happen.

Here's some good info for you and anyone else who's interested:
http://www.rainn.org/

http://www.kcsarc.org/pubs.htm

http://www.nomorerape.org/ (education for the boys)

http://rivervision.com/safe/ar.html (acquaintance rape)

http://www.teachingsexualethics.org/news.htm

Talking to Girls About Rape

"Talk to Your Sons"

 

[Guest]

 

[Eilan]

A recent thread illustrated that a lot of people don't really know what rape is, or only have a narrow definition. Even the legal definitions vary widely, and most often only cover "a man inserting his penis into a woman's vagina by force."

I'm not recalling all the specifics on this, but try to remember as many details as I can. I'll have to see if I can find this info, and if I've missed anything or gotten this wrong, I'll edit this post accordingly.

In Ohio a few years back, a man and his wife successfully lobbied for a law to make penetration (vaginal, at least--not sure about anal) by any object "rape." This man's stepdaughter was sexually assaulted when she was a child, and I believe that the fact that she'd been penetrated by an object instead of a penis was an issue during the trial. I'm not sure if this law applies only to minors.

In one hell of a twist, this man and his wife went to prison several years later--convicted under the very law they'd lobbied for. The man wanted a child, but the wife was no longer able to have children, so they used a syringe to impregnate the 16-year old stepdaughter (the same one who was sexaully assaulted as a child) with the intent of raising the child themselves.

We're throwing the term around, and some women even claim they 'want to be raped' (which I believe is a misnomer, and also can lead to a more casual attitude about it).

I also believe that this is a misnomer. I think I mentioned this in another post, but "real" rape isn't EVER a game. A rape/nonconsent fantasy (whatever one wants to call it) is really about control, in my opinion. If I decided that I were going to do this with my husband (and this is something we've never done), you'd better believe that there'd be at least a safe word in place. That gives me some degree of control over what's happening, even if I choose not to use it.

 

[warrior queen]

I think we all have this idea of how we'd prevent it and what we'd do if we were attacked or raped. Cognitively, we know to fight if we can, be very vocal, try to get out of the situation, go to the doctor/hospital immediately, and report it to the police. However, the reality of what we're able to do in that state can be very different.

sadly, most don't do any of those things - i know i certainly didn't, despite the fact that i had been completely educated

the shock/horror/fear of finding yourself in this situation is completely overwhelming, and all the things you learn about getting away/stopping the assault just fly out of your mind.
when you have a knife at your throat, you do exactly what you're told, preserving your life becomes paramount, not stopping the rape.

and unfortunately i learnt early on, that the courts view any capitulation to the rape (including ceasing to struggle because you are in fear for your life) as a form of consent.

 

[glynndah]

In my case it was a boyfriend who couldn't accept that the relationship was over. I was tied up while he threatened to kill himself with a .357 in front of me. Ultimately, no shots were fired. Once the situation was over and I was out of the hospital, the state's attorney said that no charges could be filed because it was a "lover's spat". Fortunately, times have changed. The exboyfriend had the nerve to propose the next day! Now, I've got a great husband (NOT the ex) and the ex is squatting in somebody's basement. Ah, Karma!

 

[Halo_n_horns]

How do we stop it? How do we change it?

Beginning with the ousting of strict religious beliefs and practices, and embracing the simple fact that we're all animals with individual natures that shouldn't be bound or otherwise repressed by any theological mandate would be an extremely good start.

Sadly...

 

[revolution724]

Man or women, you touch me - I'll fuckin kill ya
Learn Karate. Pack a knife. End of story.

Many people believe that knowing self-defense techniques or carrying a weapon will keep them safe from rape, or that people are raped because they didn't adequately protect themselves.

Unfortunately, those can be terribly misleading beliefs. Most rapes (80 to 90%, based on recent crime statistics, and I can produce a reference if needed) happen at home - which means that you're not likely to have the weapon on hand - and any weapon you do possess is more likely to be turned against you by an attacker than used to protect you, particularly if you aren't skilled in using it, in the midst of what can be an extremely disorienting situation. Likewise, knowing karate or other self-defense methods may make you feel safer, but won't protect you very much if you're intoxicated (alcohol or drugs are a factor in an enormous number of rapes) or panicked, which very, very many people would be in that situation.

The only way to stop rape successfully is for the rapist not to decide to commit the act.

It's interesting - this is the exact issue I plan to work on when I get out of grad school. I think it will take a very long time and a number of different approaches to make change, but I also firmly believe that change is possible.

 

[Bandit58]

I was sexually assaulted ("date raped") by my fiance when I was 18. He was drunk and we were staying in a hotel. I had gone to bed because I had a headache, he stayed up to party with friends. Next thing I know he is on top of me and he was trying to have sex with me - he was hurting me so I told him to stop but he didn't In the end I just lay there because he was too heavy to push off - I was in pain and shock. Being a very shy and naive girl at the time I never told anyone and even ended up marrying him because I didn't have the courage to call the wedding off.

After I left him many years later it all came back to me and I remember being upset and angry and had nightmares for weeks. Even though it happened over 25 years ago sometimes scenes in movies or on tv will upset me.

In New Zealand the statistics being bandied about were 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 10 boys will be sexually assaulted before the age of 18. In Australia there are currently advertisements on telly dealing with domestic violence and sexual assault against women. My mother never talked to me about sex at all I'm making sure my daughter is much more aware than I was at her age!

 

[HotKittySpank]

Thank you elian for replying about the rape fantasy thread. I was horrified, while reading this thread, to think that any of you would think we were callously diregarding the reality of rape. We were discussing issues of control.

Rape should be classified as any object inserted into the body without the other person's consent. I was four and it was my ass. It has been a weird comming of age and adulthood to look back and realize that what happened to me was really rape and sexual abuse/assualt.

The first time I had sex, all these images started to come back. It took me a while to piece it all together since I was only four at the time. Even now I remember bits and pieces, mostly flashes of memory. The memories were always there but, it only occured to me when I finally had sex what those memories really were.

What kills me is that my mother knew that they had done something to me and she did nothing! My little brother went around the house talking about penis this and penis that, while I was totally silent. She never even told my father. He found out when I 'recovered the memories' at 17 years old and told him.

Anyway, I am naturally distrustful of men, especially teenaged boys because of my experience. I don't hire teenage boys to babysit my kids, which was how this happened to me. If the daycare center has a male employee, I don't go there. This may be narrow minded but it gives me piece of mind.

 

[Exciteher]

....How do we stop it? How do we change it?

Why isn't there more being done?

Real rape is really anti-sexual. It is violent. It is toxic, devoid of empathy. Dealing with it at the end-point will never really solve it, only manage it... poorly.

Get rid of the:
Glorification and worship of violence in this culture.
Belief systems that excuse and even overtly foster mysoginism and sexism.

How to get rid of that stuff? On the individual level, by refusing to support any company, politician, judge, religion or any other entity that keeps putting out those same old violent, mysoginist, sexist excuses, rationalizations and messages.

And last but not least...
Have you ever heard of a compassionate, empathetic rapist?
Think about it. You have to start with someone at a very young age to train
them to be a rapist.

 

[SweetErika]

Thank you elian for replying about the rape fantasy thread. I was horrified, while reading this thread, to think that any of you would think we were callously diregarding the reality of rape. We were discussing issues of control.

"She wanted to be raped in real life"

"My wife actually recently asked me to rape her. She said she enjoyed it alot."

We SHOULD be horrified when people say things like this. Some people spoke of control, domination, reluctance, being convinced, acting, fantasies...that's one thing because it's all in the context of roleplay and both people enjoying themselves. You absolutely can not call that rape.

It's callous to associate rape with fantasy, willingness, or any kind of enjoyment because the reality is none of those, and some people have been raped because their attackers thought they wanted and/or enjoyed it. Some will argue it's a matter of semantics, but it can be very painful for survivors and those who care for them to hear people use a word that represents such a horrifying event improperly, or in association with something that's supposedly fun and enjoyable. Just my $0.02.