None so Blind!

[Thumper]

Just caught the end of "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". I really must read this book. In it, the priest is waxing eloquent about falling in love with a woman and not being able to express it. He couldn't reconcile the fact of his loving this woman more than than he loved God. Why is this so hard for people (Christians) to figure out. Loving another human (wife, husband, child, friend, neighbor, enemy, etc.) is exactly how we demonstrate a love for God.

This is why I will have no truck with the modern day purveyors of "Christianity". They constantly are throwing their hands in the air and professing their undying love for God and Jesus. Then they proceed to denounce everyone who is slightly different as "evil". They love their "lord" but hate the earth and it's "evil" inhabitants. (his creation)

Why is the truth of their religion so difficult for them to see?

Jesus (their Lord and Saviour) spelled it out for them.

You will not be forgiven unless you yourself forgive.

You cannot love God and not love your brother or sister.

If you care not what befalls your brother or sister then you care not for God.

You cannot worship two masters. If money is your master then God cannot be.

A camel will pass through the eye of a needle, before a rich man attains heaven. Does this mean rich men are evil. Not necessarily but how many rich men will give up everything they own for a good cause? Not many I wager. They are jealous of their wealth and grow bitter when required to give any up. Even though they cannot take it with them.

I do not hate the rich as has been so often charged. I do not blame them. I do pity them.I have never said it is the fault of the wealthy that poverty exists.

Does wealth lead to happiness. Doubtful. It seems the wealthy are constantly concerned with the status of their wealth. And too much is never enough. Witness the Anna Nicole Smith fiasco. Two brothers. The will leaves everything to one brother and nothing to the other. All this money and the father hates one son so much that he leaves him out? All this money and the remembered son refuses to share with his brother? And then there is Ms Smith. She has to have half of the money so she sues. Why the long drawn out court battles? Sad..really sad. And pathetic.





[Edited by Thumper on 03-13-2001 at 01:56 AM]

 

[bluntforcemama]

Exactly why I refuse to be a Christian... too much hypocrisy in those that I see...

 

[OUTSIDER]

I worship sock puppets and have never been happier....or crazier.

 

[bluntforcemama]

Sock puppets kick ass!

 

[Ally C]

Sock puppets kick ass!

If you wear them on your feet, I guess they could ...

 

[bluntforcemama]

Why do I feel like I walked right into that one?

 

[OUTSIDER]

you see...you see....a god and a useful object......now thats what I call a two for one.

 

[Countess DeWinter]

...as those who will not see

That was so well put Thumper! Every now and again someone posts something like this that reaffirms my faith that humanity isn't a lost cause.

Oh...those who you described, those hypocrits...they're not Christians. Sayin' it doesn't make it so.

There's another verse: "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples, that you have love one for another." People who are full of hate (hate for sinners, for "evil" in all its forms, etc) do not have the love of God in them. Conversely, people who are full of the love of God can't help but show it.

If the preaching coming out of someone's mouth is not matched by how they live...what's coming out of their mouth is a lie. But that doesn't make every Christian a liar or a hypocrit.

<applauding Thumper>

 

[Blackbich]

Hugs for both Thumper and Countess. This is something I've been struggling with for a while.

I miss the structure of organized religion but I don't miss the hypocrisy that I see. Claiming to be a Christian but yet you hate homosexuals (that's the main one!), people of another race, etc. If you can't open your heart up to love your fellow man, how can you open it up to God?

Can I get an AMEN my bruthas and sistas?

*Passing around the collection plate*

 

[Mistress]

AHHHHHH!!!

runs and hides
Please, no religon talk! lol

 

[scylis]

question:
if somebody turns away from god (and all religion), is that person damned mo matter how "good" a person they are?

 

[Thumper]

scylis

No....

You can only truly turn away from God if you turn away from your brother or sister. If you don't care.

That may get a few generous, caring, compassionate atheists panties all bunched up. But hey, panties are for bunching..

 

[Isabella Thorne]

God or Dog?

Q: What does a dyslexic agnostic insomniac do?

A: Stays awake night wondering if there is a dog.
_____________
ohhhhhh good gravy my dear, i know i am being naughty now ...

 

[Whispersecret]

Exactly why I refuse to be a Christian... too much hypocrisy in those that I see...

Hey, Myst, I like you a lot, however, I have to disagree with you. Just because there are hypocritical Christians out there, I don't think that's a valid reason for rejecting the entire religion. As Thumper outlined, there are good messages to be found in Christianity (and many other religions too). It's possible to be a real Christian, true to yourself and to God, without buying into the hypocrisy, isn't it?

Let's look at the law in parallel. Sure, there are a lot of people (dirty lawyers, politicians, criminals) who twist the law to their own agendas, for their own profit, whether it be monetary or otherwise. But does that mean the law should be rejected? Of course not. I don't believe you can discount any system--be it religion, marriage, law, education, what-have-you-- just because it's abused or sullied by some.

Lastly, maybe because I live just outside of LA, a decidedly non-conservative city, I have a skewed picture of religion. However, at church services I've attended and among Christian people that I know, they don't promote hatred of gays or blacks or any other group of people. But maybe it's different in the Bible Belt or elsewhere.

 

[Countess DeWinter]

But maybe it's different in the Bible Belt or elsewhere.

it's not...wherever you go, a few outspoken rotten apples can ruin the whole bunch but by and large the rest of Christianity is not hypocritical.

I suspect that those who claim to be turned off by hypocrits "everywhere" have really just been personally hurt by one or two and don't know any TRUE Christians to give them a more fair and balanced view.

 

[CreamyLady]

Anything can be twisted to fit a personal agenda, and the devil quotes scripture remarkably well. I understand that he is no mean theologian.

It is a major fallacy to demonize the many for the cloven hooves of the few. By all means castigate the specific demon, and try to understand and, if possible, reeducate the deluded.

Failing that, try that other Christian virtue, unconditional love. It can work wonders.

 

[CreamyLady]

"Christian" is a perfectly good term for one following the teachings of Jesus Christ. There's no need to coin a new one: "hypocrite," "intolerant," and "bigot" can pretty much cover the rest.

There were once many versions of Christianity, many of which were declared heresies in the early Church councils. Some of them denied the sacraments. If being a heretic sounds like fun, look them up.

 

[Pyper]

I believe God said that you should eat the flesh of your own children. (Deuteronomy 28:53). If you Christians out there don't want to be called hypocrites, I think you'd better get crackin!

 

[Guest]

 

[Todd]

I believe God said that you should eat the flesh of your own children. (Deuteronomy 28:53). If you Christians out there don't want to be called hypocrites, I think you'd better get crackin!

yay another bible reader that fails to view the different covenants/dispensations and dealings.

and oh yeah who was the book of deuteronomy written to oh yeah the jews. darn i forgot about that

[Edited by Todd on 03-13-2001 at 11:32 AM]

 

[genderbender]

Talk about a deep subject! I'm a lapsed Lutheran whose spiritual journey has wandered all over the map. For years I thought myself an atheist, then realized all my visits to cathedrals and art museums had much more to do with spirituality than they did with archtecture and aesthetics. I wandered into Tibetan Buddhism, then back to Christianity through Saint Francis. I discovered the mystical side of Christianity, then wandered once again into Buddhism, then Hinduism and eventually into Dzogchen. We have questions about existence that motivate us to seek answers. For some of us the faith of our parents offers all we require to feel safe and secure in our worlds. For others the old values, from whatever religion we were first introduced to, seem too confining and we have to search anew. I always thought it was only Lutherans who ladled on the thick patina of guilt and shame that made life so painful. Then I learned from friends that Catholics have their brand of guilt and Jews have theirs. I realized that those who can instill guilt have great power over us. I feel blessed that I no longer submit to those narrow, controlling persons and institutions. From being a member of a religion, I've become a spiritual person. I can relate to aspects of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism that support well being, kindness and compassion. I can turn away from what seems demeaning and harshly judgmental. IHMO it doesn't matter what religious form one uses to explore and express his or herself. It saddens me to watch those who feel compelled to convince me or others that their's is the only and one true faith. As Shakespeare said, "Thou dost protest too much." It is only those insecure in their faith who are compelled to convince others of the rightness of their cause. Far better to keep your own house in order and learn compassion for those who share this journey of life with you.

May all beings be peaceful, may all beings be happy.

 

[Pyper]

Well, hang on, Todd. I believe Judaism is the basis of the Christian religion. Who's the main star of the New Testament? Oh yeah, it's a Jew. Jesus, remember him?

And I have read the ENTIRE Bible, and I bet I can point out more objectionable verses, passages, or stories than you can good ones.

Jesus said: "I bring not peace, but a sword."

Nice sentiment for someone who was supposed to be a pacifist.

 

[CreamyLady]

Pyper

"I bring you peace; my peace I give you."

He said that, too.

 

[Pyper]

He also said, "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

Interesting the contradictions you can find in the Bible, isn't it?

 

[DarkAngel]

Didn't he say,

Devil get behind me...

I always thought he was gay....


Now please stop... I am starting to melt...