No, the Democrats did not lose by going too far left.

[Politruk]

My final retort, to bring the whole thing down to its basic absurdity

Taste Swiss chocolate and then try chocolate made elsewhere in the European Union. You can really taste a difference, a big difference. The Swiss version has been unchanged in over a century. The EU has regulated the ingredients and the manufacture of chocolate for over two decades. It is a disappointment. Not a challenge to Hershey!

But someone decided that all chocolate manufacturing should be regulated throughout the EU. Why? Ultimately,because Brussels has said so as the European Community became the European Union.

Little changes in all walks of life accumulate and gradually everything has changed. The big changes follow without challenge because the role of democracy has diminished along with everything else. Big Sister Ursula has spoken.

None of that has anything to do with social democracy.

 

[south7eventh]

None of that has anything to do with social democracy.

Well that is your opinion based on your own ideas and reasoning, I accept. But those who have lived under the rulings of the Common Market, the EEC, the European Community and finally the European Union, all the same thing, would disagree. The citizens do not elect those with power, they are appointed. The members of the European Parliament can only discuss and recommend changes. Only a very small percentage of all the rules and regulations are ever investigated.

For me there is a very great deficiency of democratic legitimacy. So continue with your search for social democracy but do not assume that it exists in the nations of the European Union.

 

[Politruk]

Well that is your opinion based on your own ideas and reasoning, I accept. But those who have lived under the rulings of the Common Market, the EEC, the European Community and finally the European Union, all the same thing, would disagree. The citizens do not elect those with power, they are appointed. The members of the European Parliament can only discuss and recommend changes. Only a very small percentage of all the rules and regulations are ever investigated.

For me there is a very great deficiency of democratic legitimacy. So continue with your search for social democracy but do not assume that it exists in the nations of the European Union.

It exists in the nations of Europe. They have their own social-democratic governments. The EU is not a government.

 

[south7eventh]

You are talking out of your backside. Read,digest learn and then understand.

Especially read about President Orban of Hungary. He is not playing the EU game and his country is subject to all sorts of threats and sanctions precisely because his idea of democracy is unacceptable. Those countries whose leaders do play the game can expect favours in return for their special interests.

Mr P you are a stubborn SOB, but you are also ignorant. Not a likeable combination. What I do admire is that because you are stubborn you never give up. You must be exhausted.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

“…It exists in the nations of Europe.”

Works best for those inclined to believe it,

 

[Politruk]

Right! Like Sir K. Starmer, whose popularity plummeted even as his acceptance speech dribbled off his sullied lips. And Macron And Shultz.

Methinks the masses tire of living second-hand lives, tailored to bourgeois-defined strictures …

Still better than anything else anywhere. That's the point.

 

[Holy_Seduction]

Still better than anything else anywhere.

Or, as good as bourgeoisie “democracy” has.

But even granting your premise, the ground still shakes beneath Starmer’s feet. Doesn’t bode well for the great, lordly kakistocrscy,

 

[NewEnglandGuy7575]

I have my doubts that the white working class would have listened even if they had. Bigotry is a very powerful drug. That's why the right hates education so much: they know it tends to defeat bigotry.

Waaaaaaaa - 75% of America including all the minorities that voted for Trump mist be “bigots”. You’re still using the Lib talking points lol. Did you know Kamala Harris is from a middle-class neighborhood? Did you know democracy will be done if Donald Trump gets in? You have no clue how ridiculous you sound. America has spoken now you can move out.

 

[YDB95]

Waaaaaaaa - 75% of America including all the minorities that voted for Trump mist be “bigots”.

I sure hope not.

You’re still using the Lib talking points lol. Did you know Kamala Harris is from a middle-class neighborhood?

Yes, and that's got nothing to do with my point.

Did you know democracy will be done if Donald Trump gets in? You have no clue how ridiculous you sound. America has spoken now you can move out.

Who's going to tell him?

 

[Politruk]

You argue continual for The Return of the Primitive.

That's what we're getting, now.

 

[UltraChad]

That's what we're getting, now.

Thanks to Biden.

 

[JohnEngelman]

N.B.: DEI, CRT and wokeness are not "left". Those things cost the ruling class nothing. Left is all about the distribution of wealth. It's about flattening the socioeconomic pyramid.

DEI, CRT, and wokeness are socially liberal issues. As long as the Democratic Party concentrated on liberal economic issues, and left the social stuff alone, it dominated the United States.

 

[AceDesSpades]

....

On the other hand, I’ve not seen the strong, principled opposition to the ‘Strong Man who can order people to act against their own self interest…’

....

Maybe a less subjective look after the passions have faded away and proper post-mortem can begin?

[First I've not seen the order(s) under question.]

 

[JohnEngelman]

That's all the left offers. That's all they've ever offered or had.

Collective ownership of the means of production and forced social/economic equity ..... doesn't work. Never has and likely never will because the Karen class just can't do what the productive class can, produce marketable value. They can only insert themselves as bureaucrats and take a piece by force. They're literally parasites..... it's a big part of what makes them Karens. Let's hope Trump is the Ivermectin.....

The working poor produce marketable value. They play the game by the rules, but they get none of the rewards.

 

[AceDesSpades]

They would kill to avoid being poor anywhere else...

 

[MajorRewrite]

Waaaaaaaa - 75% of America including all the minorities that voted for Trump mist be “bigots”. You’re still using the Lib talking points lol. Did you know Kamala Harris is from a middle-class neighborhood? Did you know democracy will be done if Donald Trump gets in? You have no clue how ridiculous you sound. America has spoken now you can move out.

Fact Check: 75% of Americans did not vote for Trump.

You have no idea how ridiculous you sound.

 

[AceDesSpades]

Apathy wins; built into everything – not a scoring feint...

 

[JohnEngelman]

They would kill to avoid being poor anywhere else...

The working poor live better in Social Democratic countries because their governments do more to help them.

 

[AceDesSpades]

subjective

I note they also try to kill each other over fucking football, so I wouldn't be lauding them with praise less than faint...

Something is still rotten in Denmark.

 

[UltraChad]

The working poor produce marketable value. They play the game by the rules, but they get none of the rewards.

Some do, not many though. They simply aren't allowed to in most cases. I don't consider them the problem but largely the victims of a corrupt system.

And most of the parasitic types I'm talking about are mid level management, lawyers and most of the bureaucratic apparatus/"private" contractors that only exist because it was willed into existence by their buddies, the middle management parasites.

 

[AceDesSpades]

Great movie.

 

[Rebel5soul]

You'll know that we're on the right path when a national support group for unemployed attorneys is formed.

 

[AceDesSpades]

The pendulum will swing back, a natural reaction to the emotional who can never make up their mind...

... they will lament, wail, indict the present, condemn the past, prophesy a future bleak

unless, unless, you do exactly as they dictate, say, politely ask (with a metaphorical gun).

 

[Holy_Seduction]

‘…some lunatic taking power and incurring some of the most horrifying exploitation and inequity…’

But at that point, you’ve shifted from collective ownership to a madman, which is the opposite of collective ownership.

On the terms you describe, the problem is not collective ownership, but the abandonment of it.

Arguably, a ‘lunatic taking power’ and implementing ‘horrifying exploitation and inequity’ is what we have now.

 

[Yarglenurp]

But at that point, you’ve shifted from collective ownership to a madman, which is the opposite of collective ownership.

On the terms you describe, the problem is not collective ownership, but the abandonment of it.

Arguably, a ‘lunatic taking power’ and implementing ‘horrifying exploitation and inequity’ is what we have now.

You’re right, but this guy doesn’t actually ever argue in good faith. He just randomly yells garbage and gets off on wasting your time.