New features for non-series authors too?

[jsmiam]

Congrats to literotica for adding a new feature that benefits people who write series.

So: how about something for people who don’t write series? Very few people can deny that anywhere in lit that lists of stories exist, chapter entries (parts of series) overwhelm.

So, dwelling on the positive (new features being developed),
How ‘bout some benefits for standalone story authors too?

A “collapse series” button. People who want to see chapter entry after chapter entry can continue to do that. They’ll be happy. (There’s a series page that does that already, at https://www.literotica.com/series/)

And those of us who would like (for example) a list of 50 stories to show 50 DIFFERENT stories could be happy too.

(Normally, wishing for new features isn’t a productive use of time here. But since a new feature for authors managing their series has been created, it seems fair to bring this up.)

 

[lovecraft68]

Looks like I get to say what I'm sure some others have thought, but don't want to post because they'll get harassed by bootlickers

The last thing this site needed was to give yet more advantages to the never ending story crowd.

So, sorry, J, people who can write a lot of stand alone stories because they have more then one idea in their head will continue to be the second class citizens of this site.

 

[ElectricBlue]

A “collapse series” button. People who want to see chapter entry after chapter entry can continue to do that. They’ll be happy. (There’s a series page that does that already, at https://www.literotica.com/series/)

I think that's how it will appear on the public listings, a single entry rather than fifty chapters. That's how I read the FAQs, at least. I don't think the author's page will look much different, though.

(Edit: typo)

 

[Voboy]

I think that how it will appear on the public listings, a single entry rather than fifty chapters. That's how I read the FAQs, at least. I don't think the author's page will look much different, though.

This.

I think the "features for series authors" are also "features for non-series authors." This change will finally treat series as one story, not a bajillion.

At least, that's how I understand it.

 

[jsmiam]

Equity has been a long running topic.

@Vo and @eb, it would be nice if you’re right. To me, reading the FAQs, I interpreted their use of “lists” to mean another coming soon feature, custom lists, rather than new behaviors being added for things like the top lists, new lists, search results, etc. that we’ve come to know. (I could be wrong, you could be wrong, we both could be wrong.)

And adding @LC to my ats, I chose a sunshine and lollipops and rainbows (and pretzels and beer) approach to this thread in an effort to be more positive and optimistic. (This feels so unnatural to me!) Like the opposites day episode of Seinfeld. Let’s see if it works.

 

[RejectReality]

Once series coding has passed out of beta, it will begin to roll out across toplists, bios, etc. Toplists will only show a single entry per chapter story, positioned wherever the highest scoring chapter is. While it hasn't been explicitly stated that I can remember, it would make sense to do the same thing in the "all" story listings as well. That's exactly what you're asking for. This step needs to happen first.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's a testing ground for rolling out some new features for single-submission stories as well. Such as adding the second, expanded story description section and cover art capability.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I just think it would be cool for stand alone stories to get covers

 

[mirafrida]

I guess I'm hopeful that this feature marks a first step toward eventually treating the two forms with more equity. Because really, is anyone well served by having individual stories swamped out by chapters? I don't think so. So even if the site management doesn't care all that much about making standalone-story authors happy, I'd think they'd want to make these improvements in order to make the site more usable for readers.

 

[jsmiam]

@rr and others, some of you sound like you have or seem to have inside info. Where is that knowledge coming from?

In my case I clicked into my works menu, the series beta, and reached a point of clicking to the faqs at https://literotica.com/faq/ and from there into the series faqs at https://literotica.com/faq/series. It talks about lists as a “read later” lists, a user by user feature. (And making those lists private or public.)

 

[RejectReality]

@rr and others, some of you sound like you have or seem to have inside info. Where is that knowledge coming from?

In my case I clicked into my works menu, the series beta, and reached a point of clicking to the faqs at https://literotica.com/faq/ and from there into the series faqs at https://literotica.com/faq/series. It talks about lists as a “read later” lists, a user by user feature. (And making those lists private or public.)

Laurel passed along the information a while back when the discussion was going on in an earlier thread. ( Which she gave me permission to post )

It's also a step toward individual chapters no longer being eligible for monthly/annual awards. Only complete stories will be eligible, with the date the final chapter is published as the effective date for consideration.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Laurel passed along the information a while back when the discussion was going on in an earlier thread. ( Which she gave me permission to post )

It's also a step toward individual chapters no longer being eligible for monthly/annual awards. Only complete stories will be eligible, with the date the final chapter is published as the effective date for consideration.

I wonder how it will be determined when the last chapter is published. Will the author need to include a note when submitting?

Personally, I would like to see some sort of deadline policy implemented. Continuing chapters would need to be submitted within a predetermined period of time or they would no longer be accepted. Authors need to be held accountable for incomplete works cluttering up this site.

 

[stickygirl]

I wonder how it will be determined when the last chapter is published. Will the author need to include a note when submitting?

Personally, I would like to see some sort of deadline policy implemented. Continuing chapters would need to be submitted within a predetermined period of time or they would no longer be accepted. Authors need to be held accountable for incomplete works cluttering up this site.

I suspect the admin time needed to tidy the database would be more than the small team at Lit Central is capable. That's assuming they wanted to impose such rigid guides. I quite like Schubert's No 8 symphony

However I do understand the frustration readers might find if they reach a cliff hanger but the author lost interest or died. *note to authors - keep stories short if you're not feeling well

 

[ElectricBlue]

I wonder how it will be determined when the last chapter is published. Will the author need to include a note when submitting?

The new Series mechanism has a "Story complete" yes no box, so the selection requires "yes".

 

[jsmiam]

@rr, thanks. Hopefully good things will come.

In my case, I’m not so much against series as I am annoyed the way they devalue the purpose of lists. If that’s improved on, that would be a victory for all.

(Also in my case: I acknowledge, but I’m not exactly bothered by scoring dynamics. Series are a different type of story and different type of reader. Let freedom reign)

 

[BobbyBrandt]

Oh, come on. Who knows when a series has ended? Sometimes I don't even know I've started a series. More than once, I've submitted work without even knowing it was chapter 1 - I had to be told by readers. Sometimes I listen, more often, I don't.

I'm not going to end all of my stories by killing all the characters. And even when your whole world has exploded, readers will still ask for more.

I wasn't referring to a series of stories, I was referring to chapter stories. A series story should be able to stand on its own, with a beginning, middle, and end. I have written both.

My chapter stories are all completed before submission. My series can be added to (or not) at any time without affecting the previous submissions.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I wonder how it will be determined when the last chapter is published. Will the author need to include a note when submitting?

Personally, I would like to see some sort of deadline policy implemented. Continuing chapters would need to be submitted within a predetermined period of time or they would no longer be accepted. Authors need to be held accountable for incomplete works cluttering up this site.

So if an author gets held up, they're not allowed to post the final chapter? Seems like that would result in more incomplete stories, not fewer.

My last series here took a bit over three years from first to last chapter; it wasn't meant to take that long, but life got in the way. One of the later chapters - which would presumably have been banned from posting, under such a rule - won a Readers' Choice award this year, so I guess readers considered it worth the wait.

I do find it frustrating when I'm really enjoying a series and then it breaks off, never to be completed. But Literotica is an amateur forum that's open to newbie writers who are still learning the ropes. Such places need to exist, and that kind of roughness is part of the deal. Not every story site can or should be held to professional publication standards; if it did, nobody would get to that level in the first place.

(Though even in pro world, even when you're paying to read/watch part 1 of a series, that doesn't buy you any guarantee of future updates. Many a TV show and many a book series has been cancelled halfway through its story.)

 

[BobbyBrandt]

My last series here took a bit over three years from first to last chapter; it wasn't meant to take that long, but life got in the way. One of the later chapters - which would presumably have been banned from posting, under such a rule - won a Readers' Choice award this year, so I guess readers considered it worth the wait.

Was your last a series or a chapter story?

I agree that there are a lot of amateur writers here, as evidenced by many of the questions asked in this forum. We should be trying to help them become better writers, and I believe most here do just that. Anything that encourages a writer to complete their story (not series) before posting any part of it would benefit them and the entire site.

There is a very popular chapter story (New Girl In Town) that the author, AuroraIncident started five years ago. He has received good ratings and reviews on all 24 chapters, and the improvement in his technical writing skills, editing, and character dialogue is evident. I bet that he wishes that he could now go back and apply some of his learned skills to the earliest chapters, but since they are already published, he would have to submit edited versions, and we all know the pain that that can be. His is an example where patience would have been well worth it.

If writers knew beforehand that they would face a deadline to complete their chapter story, I would hope that many would refrain from submitting partial works entirely. Stories that are part of a series should not be treated the same.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Was your last a series or a chapter story?

Not sure how you're defining those terms, but it's a single story told across 12 chapters.

I agree that there are a lot of amateur writers here, as evidenced by many of the questions asked in this forum. We should be trying to help them become better writers, and I believe most here do just that. Anything that encourages a writer to complete their story (not series) before posting any part of it would benefit them and the entire site.

I have two novel-length stories here, both posted in chapters, and six stand-alone short stories.

Had the kind of "encouragement" you're proposing been the rule when I came to this site, neither of those long stories would ever have been written; without the first of those, I probably wouldn't have written most of the shorts either.

I do not agree that this would've been a benefit to me. I put enough value on my stories that I also don't agree that missing out on those stories would have benefited the site.

There is a very popular chapter story (New Girl In Town) that the author, AuroraIncident started five years ago. He has received good ratings and reviews on all 24 chapters, and the improvement in his technical writing skills, editing, and character dialogue is evident. I bet that he wishes that he could now go back and apply some of his learned skills to the earliest chapters, but since they are already published, he would have to submit edited versions, and we all know the pain that that can be. His is an example where patience would have been well worth it.

...or perhaps the story would be sitting in his drafts folder half-written and abandoned, never posted at all.

Writing is a personal thing. Everybody has their own approach, and if "complete the story before posting Chapter 1" is what works for you, I'm glad for you! But it's a colossal mistake to assume that what's beneficial for you must be beneficial for everybody. We don't all work the same way.

 

[ElectricBlue]

There is a very popular chapter story (New Girl In Town) that the author, AuroraIncident started five years ago. He has received good ratings and reviews on all 24 chapters, and the improvement in his technical writing skills, editing, and character dialogue is evident. I bet that he wishes that he could now go back and apply some of his learned skills to the earliest chapters, but since they are already published, he would have to submit edited versions, and we all know the pain that that can be. His is an example where patience would have been well worth it.

To me, that sounds like a writer who learned his chops as he went along, gathering reader support and, one assumes, feedback along the way. If he'd tried to wait and finish it all before publishing, he might well have learned nothing, might never have published, or the whole thing might have been rubbish, because no-one told him what was good, what was bad.

At least in this case, it sounds like progress was made; and many authors accept their beginner stuff as exactly that, beginner stuff, and move on, leaving it alone, knowing their next piece will be better.

It's common here on Lit - the number of writers who keep futzing with their last piece, editing this, improving that. That's a waste of time to me - just write the next piece, then you'll have two stories, not one done to death first story.

The problem, I think, is the number of writers who think they're up for the next great American novel, who launch right in but don't do their apprenticeship first. It's much better, I think, to cut your teeth on ten or so short pieces, stand-alone stories, so you can learn and nail the fundamental technical stuff, and to find your own style. Only then are you ready for the "big one".

Of course, there are exceptions (cue, Joseph Heller), but not many, and not many on this site. Walk before you run, grasshopper.

 

[RejectReality]

Absolutely every erotica site is littered with incomplete stories. Shit happens. When you're dealing with adult content, a whole new set of issues arise that can cause an author to stop posting new work, or vanish entirely.

Punishing people for being amateurs or having life shit in their Wheaties is not the way to go. The new completion marker will mean that new stories and existing stories by active authors will have an indicator that readers can use to determine whether to invest their time.

I would like to eventually see a public feedback component of this where logged-in readers can mark legacy stories that no longer have active authors as complete or incomplete. To take some pressure off Laurel, it should probably be a ratio that readers can use without her having to review every one of them as if they were a report.

Notice I say logged-in users for this feature. That leaves a trail that can be more effectively used to prevent/erase/ban bad-faith reporting wholesale. It's inevitable that some jackass is going to try to manipulate this, so provide the tools for quick mitigation. The existing report feature can be used by readers who see the ratio being manipulated. I'm not in favor of forcing people to get an account to vote/etc., but a feature such as this is a whole different thing in my opinion.

 

[Voboy]

If writers knew beforehand that they would face a deadline to complete their chapter story, I would hope that many would refrain from submitting partial works entirely.

All due respect, but fuck that shit. Like many, I ended up writing a series I didn't intend to write, but I'm glad I ended up writing it and so are my readers. My work was, by definition, "partial" at every step along the way. Yet it brought enjoyment to many, and it enriched my own life and my catalog here. Under your rule, it never would have been written. How is that a desirable outcome for my readers or I?

I've written commercially, with deadlines, and they did NOTHING positive for my productivity. If I wished to write to a deadline, I wouldn't be posting here. Lack of deadlines on Lit is a feature, not a bug.

 

[Northstar4695]

Personally, I would like to see some sort of deadline policy implemented. Continuing chapters would need to be submitted within a predetermined period of time or they would no longer be accepted. Authors need to be held accountable for incomplete works cluttering up this site.

I get the point, but this is a free site and we don’t get paid. I’d rather people try their hand at it without worrying about a deadline.

 

[jsmiam]

I wasn't referring to a series of stories, I was referring to chapter stories…

For me, I’ll take a step back to avoid clouding the issue, and avoiding nventing new nonenclature:

This topic is asking about what’s in it for one story-one part-one spot on a list of stories authors, with new literotica series features being introduced.

If a story takes up more than one spot on a list, whether we call them chapters, episodes, parts, universes, galaxies, wormholes, whatever, to me it’s a series. Do we need multiple designations, I’ll leave that to the people who wrote stories with multiple parts. To me, parts is parts.

 

[NightPorter]

Having now seen the series pictures live on the site, I want to be able to add a picture to individual stories. The layout of a series page and a stories page are identical. I think it adds something to the page.

 

[RejectReality]

Having now seen the series pictures live on the site, I want to be able to add a picture to individual stories. The layout of a series page and a stories page are identical. I think it adds something to the page.

I wouldn't be surprised if that comes about. Like you said, the code and the templates are already done. It would just be a matter of implementing new options for individual stories.

I suspect it's something that would roll out with the form based editing process that's supposed to be on the books.