Never forget what feminism is really about

[LJ_Reloaded]

Christ, this is a real struggle for you, isn't it. Yes, feminism is a form of seeking social justice.

You just hung yourself from your own tree and you're calling this a struggle for me?

Only if you ignore 2 out of 3 definitions in the dictionary.

You were wrong, got all caught up in hating white people.

You suck at reading dictionaries and you got busted for it. Own it, Asian steppenfetchit boy!

A handful of fringe whackys do, making that statement about as true as saying anyone left of libertarian wants Soviet style communism...certifiable bullshit.

This in no way refutes the fact that they don't even want brown people or gays in their midst. Which is why no right winger cares about the 50,000 Irish illegals here now, or Trump's illegal alien wife, or Trump's chain immigration ancestors, but woahhhh look out if we have Mexican illegals or brown people doing chain immigration! And let's not get into the shitfit they throw whenever women headline major AAA+ title movies.

Right wingers love their all-white, no-girls-allowed safe spaces.

Most right wingers don't give a fuck what you do, they just don't want to have to pay for it.

Not even close the same thing.

Ah that's why they oppose gay marriage and it took a Supreme Court decision to give gays that right. As for paying for things maybe they should stop leeching off of us Blue States - Republican states are yuuuge welfare whores.

 

[WoundedKnee]

Every once in a while, I like to pop in and get a refresher on just insane LT is.

 

[richard_daily]

LT. Sad.

Scared of women.

 

[Hypoxia]

LT. Sad.

Scared of women.

I used to fret about deities. Then I started carving my own. Problem solved. Now I control their wee little holy asses. Take THAT, Loki!

Guys (or gals) fretting about wimmen could do likewise. Carve a bunch that can be controlled and manipulated, dressed and painted funny, placed in uncomfortable positions, talked down to. Throw your voice ventriloquist-style to make them talk back -- respectfully and docilely, of course. Loud bitches get tossed into the campfire. Whittle some more that won't give no lip. Yeah!

 

[policywank]

The premise of the thread is fundamentally flawed. Feminism isn’t one single perfectly clearly defined philosophy to which all feminists strictly adhere. Every word uttered by a feminist or in the name of feminism isn’t vetted and approved by every other feminist (or a central authority that represents every last one of us).

It is a normal human flaw that we see the diversity of opinion and perspective among the groups with which we relate but regard those we oppose as big blobs of homogeneous odious views.

I hear feminists say things that I disagree with all the time. Sometimes they use feminism as the rallying point to compel others to agree with them or advocate their point of view. So what - every identifiable group has “members” who do this. I can be a feminist without being obliged to itemize which views I agree or disagree with as stated by every other feminist. Likewise feminism isn’t one big nefarious plot but even if it was I am perfectly capable of distinguishing that from a series of cogent and rationale set of values centred on equal opportunity.

 

[richard_daily]

The premise of the thread is fundamentally flawed. Feminism isn’t one single perfectly clearly defined philosophy to which all feminists strictly adhere. Every word uttered by a feminist or in the name of feminism isn’t vetted and approved by every other feminist (or a central authority that represents every last one of us).

It is a normal human flaw that we see the diversity of opinion and perspective among the groups with which we relate but regard those we oppose as big blobs of homogeneous odious views.

I hear feminists say things that I disagree with all the time. Sometimes they use feminism as the rallying point to compel others to agree with them or advocate their point of view. So what - every identifiable group has “members” who do this. I can be a feminist without being obliged to itemize which views I agree or disagree with as stated by every other feminist. Likewise feminism isn’t one big nefarious plot but even if it was I am perfectly capable of distinguishing that from a series of cogent and rationale set of values centred on equal opportunity.

LT can't comprehend this simple truth.

 

[Hypoxia]

LT can't comprehend this simple truth.

That's reflected in his wide-open dating calendar.

And his callused palms.

Sad.

 

[richard_daily]

That's reflected in his wide-open dating calendar.

And his callused palms.

Sad.

In LT's eyes, it's all women's fault. Damn those pesky feminists!

Sad.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I make up lie after lie after malicious, unfounded about LT because I fear and wish to shame and silence all men who speak out against women who inflict domestic violence on men.

I've rescued over a million women on the Internet and have never been laid once!

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

The premise of the thread is fundamentally flawed. Feminism isn’t one single perfectly clearly defined philosophy to which all feminists strictly adhere. Every word uttered by a feminist or in the name of feminism isn’t vetted and approved by every other feminist (or a central authority that represents every last one of us).

This doesn't change the fact that the self proclaimed good feminists never do anything to stop the bad feminists but yet they are always holding us men responsible to stop the men who behave badly.

When some men rape, we're somehow all fucking rapists or we're all somehow complicit. When some feminists do bad, they demand we believe it's just a few bad apples.

 

[policywank]

This doesn't change the fact that the self proclaimed good feminists never do anything to stop the bad feminists but yet they are always holding us men responsible to stop the men who behave badly.

When some men rape, we're somehow all fucking rapists or we're all somehow complicit. When some feminists do bad, they demand we believe it's just a few bad apples.

I have heard many feminists speak out against the current culture of "guilty until proven innocent" in relation to sexual harassment accusations. And mistreatment and oppression of women has been enabled by "good men" who stood idly by and let it happen since the beginning of time.

But that debate is beside the point. Reality is biased behaviour is exhibited by all groups whether the "group" is based upon gender, race, religion, culture, class, political persuasion, sexual orientation or any other thing you can think of. It is human nature and it reflects unconscious bias, an inclination to protect our own and the belief that other groups are already critical enough that we don't need to add to it. Feminists are not free of these distortions, nor do we claim to be but nor are we more guilty than others.

All of these "groups" also tend to fall into the trap of believing that the few most vocal people who speak on behalf of the opposing groups somehow represent the opinion of everyone in that group. That isn't true. Yes there are loud mouth feminists that behave as though all men are rapists and there are loud mouth jerks who make all manner of disgusting generalizations about women. Neither represent their group. I don't feel the need to refute every dumb thing I hear from a feminist - she doesn't speak for me and if you don't get that that is your problem.

You can go on all day about how feminists accuse men as a homogenous group for the sins of a few men, but that doesn't justify doing the same thing by condemning feminists as a homogenous group for the sins of a few women. It is tit for tat and you find your way back to who started it. And this I know for fucking sure - men were oppressing women long before feminists existed.

 

[richard_daily]

I used to fret about deities. Then I started carving my own. Problem solved. Now I control their wee little holy asses. Take THAT, Loki!

Guys (or gals) fretting about wimmen could do likewise. Carve a bunch that can be controlled and manipulated, dressed and painted funny, placed in uncomfortable positions, talked down to. Throw your voice ventriloquist-style to make them talk back -- respectfully and docilely, of course. Loud bitches get tossed into the campfire. Whittle some more that won't give no lip. Yeah!

Well, he is REALLY into sex robots, so perhaps he's following that advice?

Real women don't want him, maybe a robot woman will accept him?

 

[Hypoxia]

https://media.newyorker.com/photos/5909540debe912338a373442/master/w_727,c_limit/120430_cn-cats-must-also-fail_p465.jpg

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I have heard many feminists speak out against the current culture of "guilty until proven innocent" in relation to sexual harassment accusations. And mistreatment and oppression of women has been enabled by "good men" who stood idly by and let it happen since the beginning of time.

But that debate is beside the point. Reality is biased behaviour is exhibited by all groups whether the "group" is based upon gender, race, religion, culture, class, political persuasion, sexual orientation or any other thing you can think of. It is human nature and it reflects unconscious bias, an inclination to protect our own and the belief that other groups are already critical enough that we don't need to add to it. Feminists are not free of these distortions, nor do we claim to be but nor are we more guilty than others.

All of these "groups" also tend to fall into the trap of believing that the few most vocal people who speak on behalf of the opposing groups somehow represent the opinion of everyone in that group. That isn't true. Yes there are loud mouth feminists that behave as though all men are rapists and there are loud mouth jerks who make all manner of disgusting generalizations about women. Neither represent their group. I don't feel the need to refute every dumb thing I hear from a feminist - she doesn't speak for me and if you don't get that that is your problem.

But yet as you claim, I as a man have to be held responsible for the acts of others because in your opinion good men have stood aside while women were oppressed. Your entire point falls apart because of that hypocrisy.

You want me not to generalize feminists while you promote the lie about "good men who stood idly by and let it happen since the beginning of time" when in reality legions of men have fought for women and many have even given their lives to protect women.

How many times has a woman risked her life to protect a man from an abusive woman? LOL that ain't your problem, is it? Yet you openly hold us all responsible to defend women. Fuck that. It goes both ways.

You can go on all day about how feminists accuse men as a homogenous group for the sins of a few men, but that doesn't justify doing the same thing by condemning feminists as a homogenous group for the sins of a few women. It is tit for tat and you find your way back to who started it. And this I know for fucking sure - men were oppressing women long before feminists existed.

The two are not the same. Men are a condition of being that they can't change. Feminism is a voluntary ideology choice. For that matter the men's rights movement has, by and large, degenerated to the same level of hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy and has surrendered its legitimacy. The MRAs who have taken a stand for integrity are just as silent as the feminists.

As for whether men were oppressing women, well that in itself is a symptom of male disposability, which is imposed by nature.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Well, he is REALLY into sex robots, so perhaps he's following that advice?

Real women don't want him, maybe a robot woman will accept him?

A man without a woman is like a fish without a bicycle.

If it's okay for women to feel like that, then it's okay for men.

But then you hate your own gender, don't you?

 

[Hypoxia]

A man without a woman is like most angry LW commentors and GB posters.

Fixed for ya.

 

[richard_daily]

A man without a woman is like a fish without a bicycle.

If it's okay for women to feel like that, then it's okay for men.

But then you hate your own gender, don't you?

So you like being alone?

If that's true, why do you spend so much time and energy complaining about women?

No one buys it.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

So you like being alone?

If I were single right now, in this hellish hypergamic dating environment, you betcha.

If that's true, why do you spend so much time and energy complaining about women?

No one buys it.

For the same reason that feminists bash men, yet you have no problem with them. Probably because you're so DESPERATE for a woman's attention that you'll suck up to anything that provides life support for a pussy.

 

[policywank]

But yet as you claim, I as a man have to be held responsible for the acts of others because in your opinion good men have stood aside while women were oppressed. Your entire point falls apart because of that hypocrisy.

You want me not to generalize feminists while you promote the lie about "good men who stood idly by and let it happen since the beginning of time" when in reality legions of men have fought for women and many have even given their lives to protect women.

How many times has a woman risked her life to protect a man from an abusive woman? LOL that ain't your problem, is it? Yet you openly hold us all responsible to defend women. Fuck that. It goes both ways.


The two are not the same. Men are a condition of being that they can't change. Feminism is a voluntary ideology choice. For that matter the men's rights movement has, by and large, degenerated to the same level of hypocrisy and moral bankruptcy and has surrendered its legitimacy. The MRAs who have taken a stand for integrity are just as silent as the feminists.

As for whether men were oppressing women, well that in itself is a symptom of male disposability, which is imposed by nature.

I didn’t say you must be held responsible for the oppression of women. Quite the opposite I made no assertion of responsibility. Nor did I generalize about men being represented by those who stood idly by. I simply observed a reality with the specific point of explaining that just because some men stood idly by does not mean all men did and it does not make all men guilty......just as none of us should bear collective responsibility for the actions of any member of our group.

I promoting a truth which is that some men stood idly by and some defended women. Likewise some feminists stand for the promotion of female priorities and some use the platform to promote an anti-male bias. It is vital to see that it isn’t all one thing or the other. We are all individuals, not just flag bearers for our group.

And no feminism is not an ideology. Maybe capital ‘F’ feminism for some. But no woman I know who identifies as feminist is part of some broad group think. We are just people (including men) who support the right to have a freely expressed female view of the world. The only reason we don’t have a gender equivalent manimism is because men don’t need to rally to make their voices heard.

You inferred hypocrisy by making conclusions based on things I didn’t say. I don’t know why but your last point is salient. You regard men as disposable or you think society or women regard men that way? Is all this vitriol rooted in vulnerability?

I am not trying to be nasty. A male relative of mine described his perspective to me a while ago. He is almost 50 now and as he describes it for his whole life he feels as though he has been the target of gender based blowback from a prior generation. When he and I were little kids there was a silly little saying “anything boys can do, girls can do better.” Somebody came up with that as I way to support girls probably. But we were raised to see the world in equal terms. And starting from that point that silly phrase is actually a really shitty thing to say to a little boy and it made me realize something. This is the problem of collective guilt. One group is legitimately hurt and they want to fight back. But we can’t find those that hurt us so we lash out at those who look like them. In the process we commit an injustice against some otherwise innocent people and perpetuate the problem. Women who have been legitimately mistreated lash out at all men rather than the ones that hurt them. Men respond in kind and so on.

You seem to be responding to the most obnoxious, intolerant, myopic and man hating feminist (yes they exist and I don’t deny it) even when someone tries to put forward cogent and balanced views. That is your right but it is perpetuating the problem. Nobody wins an argument by shouting down their opponents and refusing to hear reason. When you start to see people as thoughtful individuals it becomes easier to see their point of view and more difficult to see them as stereotypes.

 

[KimGordon67]

I didn’t say you must be held responsible for the oppression of women. Quite the opposite I made no assertion of responsibility. Nor did I generalize about men being represented by those who stood idly by. I simply observed a reality with the specific point of explaining that just because some men stood idly by does not mean all men did and it does not make all men guilty......just as none of us should bear collective responsibility for the actions of any member of our group.

I promoting a truth which is that some men stood idly by and some defended women. Likewise some feminists stand for the promotion of female priorities and some use the platform to promote an anti-male bias. It is vital to see that it isn’t all one thing or the other. We are all individuals, not just flag bearers for our group.

And no feminism is not an ideology. Maybe capital ‘F’ feminism for some. But no woman I know who identifies as feminist is part of some broad group think. We are just people (including men) who support the right to have a freely expressed female view of the world. The only reason we don’t have a gender equivalent manimism is because men don’t need to rally to make their voices heard.

You inferred hypocrisy by making conclusions based on things I didn’t say. I don’t know why but your last point is salient. You regard men as disposable or you think society or women regard men that way? Is all this vitriol rooted in vulnerability?

I am not trying to be nasty. A male relative of mine described his perspective to me a while ago. He is almost 50 now and as he describes it for his whole life he feels as though he has been the target of gender based blowback from a prior generation. When he and I were little kids there was a silly little saying “anything boys can do, girls can do better.” Somebody came up with that as I way to support girls probably. But we were raised to see the world in equal terms. And starting from that point that silly phrase is actually a really shitty thing to say to a little boy and it made me realize something. This is the problem of collective guilt. One group is legitimately hurt and they want to fight back. But we can’t find those that hurt us so we lash out at those who look like them. In the process we commit an injustice against some otherwise innocent people and perpetuate the problem. Women who have been legitimately mistreated lash out at all men rather than the ones that hurt them. Men respond in kind and so on.

You seem to be responding to the most obnoxious, intolerant, myopic and man hating feminist (yes they exist and I don’t deny it) even when someone tries to put forward cogent and balanced views. That is your right but it is perpetuating the problem. Nobody wins an argument by shouting down their opponents and refusing to hear reason. When you start to see people as thoughtful individuals it becomes easier to see their point of view and more difficult to see them as stereotypes.

I don't know if you've encountered LJ before (I can't even remember if we've both commented on previous threads of his) .... but it's a pointless battle. Useful if you want to sharpen your argument, which is about the only reason I engage. He has pretty much no capacity for logic, and will willfully misinterpret anything you say, and then when you get bored with the pointlessness of the weird loop of an argument he unwittingly constructs, declare himself the winner.

 

[richard_daily]

If I were single right now, in this hellish hypergamic dating environment, you betcha.


For the same reason that feminists bash men, yet you have no problem with them. Probably because you're so DESPERATE for a woman's attention that you'll suck up to anything that provides life support for a pussy.

No. I asked why YOU spend so much time complaining about women, if you allegedly aren't single, and have no problem getting laid.

If those things are true, why do you spend so much of your waking hours complaining about women?

Everyone knows that you're lonely, single, and sad.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I didn’t say you must be held responsible for the oppression of women.

Wait, you didn't write this?

I have heard many feminists speak out against the current culture of "guilty until proven innocent" in relation to sexual harassment accusations. And mistreatment and oppression of women has been enabled by "good men" who stood idly by and let it happen since the beginning of time.

That right there says men are responsible for the oppression of women.

Quite the opposite I made no assertion of responsibility. Nor did I generalize about men being represented by those who stood idly by. I simply observed a reality with the specific point of explaining that just because some men stood idly by does not mean all men did and it does not make all men guilty......just as none of us should bear collective responsibility for the actions of any member of our group.

What you said literally disagrees with what you said. Which is it, are we not responsible or are we responsible for not standing up for women?

I'll have you know that feminists see #NotAllMen as "unhelpful".

I promoting a truth which is that some men stood idly by and some defended women. Likewise some feminists stand for the promotion of female priorities and some use the platform to promote an anti-male bias. It is vital to see that it isn’t all one thing or the other. We are all individuals, not just flag bearers for our group.

I'll give you one thing, there are some good feminists out there. They just have no political power or media presence. They have no control of the overall political agenda.

You inferred hypocrisy by making conclusions based on things I didn’t say. I don’t know why but your last point is salient. You regard men as disposable or you think society or women regard men that way? Is all this vitriol rooted in vulnerability?

Society and women regard men as disposable. And the entire nature of my message is that this must end. Vulnerability only happens when you cannot resist. I do more than resist, I am one of the ones who simply walked off the plantation.

I am a free man, free from male disposability, and I preach freedom for other men. Vulnerable? Nah, I'm a saboteur, a subversive.

I am not trying to be nasty. A male relative of mine described his perspective to me a while ago. He is almost 50 now and as he describes it for his whole life he feels as though he has been the target of gender based blowback from a prior generation. When he and I were little kids there was a silly little saying “anything boys can do, girls can do better.” Somebody came up with that as I way to support girls probably. But we were raised to see the world in equal terms. And starting from that point that silly phrase is actually a really shitty thing to say to a little boy and it made me realize something. This is the problem of collective guilt. One group is legitimately hurt and they want to fight back. But we can’t find those that hurt us so we lash out at those who look like them. In the process we commit an injustice against some otherwise innocent people and perpetuate the problem. Women who have been legitimately mistreated lash out at all men rather than the ones that hurt them. Men respond in kind and so on.

See, responding in kind is not what I do. I categorically oppose doing what the feminists do, in holding an entire gender responsible for the acts of the deplorables. That's why Donald Trump's "you gotta treat women like shit" is such a bad idea, and why I've actively spoken out against traditional conservatism.

My beef is entirely with male disposability, hypergamy and mainstream feminism, and not even black feminism, which is a lot more of a mixed bag (more of them tend to support male victims and tend to call out bigoted feminists), and not women in general, few of whom (until Trump came along) even wanted to call themselves feminists.

I know exactly what you're referring to here, I call it "gender revenge politics", and mainstream feminists have been pushing this for ages. Now the Make America Great Again culture has arisen and with it comes more gender revenge against women - sneering at #MeToo, de-funding Planned Parenthood, calling women sluts for using contraception, all just the infancy of a wholesale movement to get more revenge and bring back patriarchal society. I want none of it. I want justice, not revenge, which is why I've even abandoned the Men's Rights movement as it slides into moral bankruptcy.

You speak of good men who never stood up for women. This thread is me calling out those so-called "good feminists" who stood silent while misandry happened.

The core of the problem here is that there is a huge and highly public reckoning happening for men who've done bad things to women. There has never been any sort of thing for women who've done bad things to men. Paternity fraud is legal in 30 states. Males are being raped out there right now and when their rapist gets pregnant the male victim gets punished with child support. And there isn't one feminist group in existence that is fighting to stop either. And you will never get a feminist to come out and condemn it. Because "Oh I didn't see that"... or just "reasons".

I don't know if you've encountered LJ before (I can't even remember if we've both commented on previous threads of his) .... but it's a pointless battle.

Says the person who doesn't even comprehend what Mainstream feminism means even after I explained it to you. You are by far one of the most obtuse individuals on here. You routinely overturn the chess board when you've been outmaneuvered, you have explicitly complained about not being able to get your point across to people on here, I am far from the only person you've accused of being logically challenged... which suggests that the problem here isn't me, it's actually you.

No. I asked why YOU

See, that's your problem. You think your stupid questions are valid. They're not.

I'm going to give you the same answer I gave before and you're going to accept it.

If I were single right now, in this hellish hypergamic dating environment, you betcha. For the same reason that feminists bash men, yet you have no problem with them. Probably because you're so DESPERATE for a woman's attention that you'll suck up to anything that provides life support for a pussy.

You haven't anything else to say, mangina.

 

[KimGordon67]

Wait, you didn't write this?


That right there says men are responsible for the oppression of women.


What you said literally disagrees with what you said. Which is it, are we not responsible or are we responsible for not standing up for women?

I'll have you know that feminists see #NotAllMen as "unhelpful".


I'll give you one thing, there are some good feminists out there. They just have no political power or media presence. They have no control of the overall political agenda.


Society and women regard men as disposable. And the entire nature of my message is that this must end. Vulnerability only happens when you cannot resist. I do more than resist, I am one of the ones who simply walked off the plantation.

I am a free man, free from male disposability, and I preach freedom for other men. Vulnerable? Nah, I'm a saboteur, a subversive.


See, responding in kind is not what I do. I categorically oppose doing what the feminists do, in holding an entire gender responsible for the acts of the deplorables. That's why Donald Trump's "you gotta treat women like shit" is such a bad idea, and why I've actively spoken out against traditional conservatism.

My beef is entirely with male disposability, hypergamy and mainstream feminism, and not even black feminism, which is a lot more of a mixed bag (more of them tend to support male victims and tend to call out bigoted feminists), and not women in general, few of whom (until Trump came along) even wanted to call themselves feminists.

I know exactly what you're referring to here, I call it "gender revenge politics", and mainstream feminists have been pushing this for ages. Now the Make America Great Again culture has arisen and with it comes more gender revenge against women - sneering at #MeToo, de-funding Planned Parenthood, calling women sluts for using contraception, all just the infancy of a wholesale movement to get more revenge and bring back patriarchal society. I want none of it. I want justice, not revenge, which is why I've even abandoned the Men's Rights movement as it slides into moral bankruptcy.

You speak of good men who never stood up for women. This thread is me calling out those so-called "good feminists" who stood silent while misandry happened.

The core of the problem here is that there is a huge and highly public reckoning happening for men who've done bad things to women. There has never been any sort of thing for women who've done bad things to men. Paternity fraud is legal in 30 states. Males are being raped out there right now and when their rapist gets pregnant the male victim gets punished with child support. And there isn't one feminist group in existence that is fighting to stop either. And you will never get a feminist to come out and condemn it. Because "Oh I didn't see that"... or just "reasons".


Says the person who doesn't even comprehend what Mainstream feminism means even after I explained it to you. You are by far one of the most obtuse individuals on here. You routinely overturn the chess board when you've been outmaneuvered, you have explicitly complained about not being able to get your point across to people on here, I am far from the only person you've accused of being logically challenged... which suggests that the problem here isn't me, it's actually you.


See, that's your problem. You think your stupid questions are valid. They're not.

I'm going to give you the same answer I gave before and you're going to accept it.

If I were single right now, in this hellish hypergamic dating environment, you betcha. For the same reason that feminists bash men, yet you have no problem with them. Probably because you're so DESPERATE for a woman's attention that you'll suck up to anything that provides life support for a pussy.

You haven't anything else to say, mangina.

You routinely confuse boredom with a repetitive circular argument and 'rage quitting'.

Pretty much every time I suggest an argument lacks logic, I explain why. Admittedly, I've given up doing that with you because that would be the definition of insanity. It's not my fault if people can't maintain an internally consistent evidence-based line of thinking.

YOU 'explaining' any form of feminism to me is a pretty funny idea. It's cute that you think that.

 

[Saint Peter]

internally consistent evidence-based line of thinking

What fun is that?

 

[KimGordon67]

What fun is that?

Just add chocolate sauce.
Now it's fun.