Never forget what feminism is really about

[ConfusedSheep]

(a) So much of this is wrong.
(b) I've tried explaining to LJ why his reliance on things like statistical prevalence comparisons in relation to gendered domestic violence is problematic, but he refuses to listen to any of the more nuanced perspectives. I personally have never said he's been hurt by a woman. I actually don't even think he really hates women per se, just feminists ... sometimes it overflows to capture 'all women' though.
(c) 'Women' are not the same as 'feminism'. Really, you're just the confirming 'guy gets screwed over by ex-wife and/or her lawyers, blames feminism' stereotype.
(d) Please don't use 'rape' in respect of your divorce settlement. They're really fundamentally different things. If you feel you were *robbed*, that's a different thing. But as far as I can gather, no one had non-consensual sex with you during your divorce.

Wait, are you trolling me? You dont honestly believe what I said has "so much wrong", do you? (you agree with the polling bit, since you didn't mention it.)

a) your opinion.
b) stats are relatively important figures when comparing trends and changes in the social dynamics between males and females. Whether its domestic violence, alimony, child support, custody battles, divorces, who initiates divorces. You can't ignore stats forever...
c) Feminism was started by women, and post modern women are typically feminist by social conditioning in schools, so there are correlations to the general female and feminism...I dont really know what you're arguing here, semantics? "Oh, a woman is not considered a feminist because shes a woman"? Also, I'm not blaming feminism for why people get divorced either lmao, I will say that divorces favor women, which means that the courts and legal system has a feminist agenda ie: favors women, mostly because feminism isn't about "equality for both genders", its been proven to mostly target females.
d) That a joke? I was hyperbolic when I said "rape" for legal procedures, males (unless they have an all-star legal team) will typically lose court battles simply because the plaintiff has a vagina. Again, heres where stats come in regar-wait...I forgot, you dont like stats. Back to rape, males dont get to say "no" when a judge grants full custody of a child to the mother, I'd say that's legal rape anyday of the week.

 

[BotanyBoy]

So please demonstrate to me exactly which tenets of 'modern feminism' suggests that female supremacy is equated with equality. I'm fairly familiar with most of the contemporary instantiations of feminisms, and I haven't actually seen that one. ('Radical feminism' maybe worked long those lines, a little bit, but that's not really commonly adhered to these days - it was fairly 70s.)
References for works cited would be appreciated.

No it wasn't 70's....it's still out there right now today.

It's not the tenets of feminism, it's the hateful people hiding behind and weaponizing them.

Feminism supposedly supports equality....but there are a multitude of prominent feminist out there that are clearly hateful of men and using "feminism" and "equality" to promote their hateful female supremacist ideas up to and including the systematic extermination of men.

Like prominent "feminist" Juli Bindle who wants to put men, who are all rapists in concentration camps!

"Will heterosexuality survive women’s liberation?

It won’t, not unless men get their act together, have their power taken from them and behave themselves. I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.

I hope heterosexuality doesn’t survive, actually. I would like to see a truce on heterosexuality. I would like an amnesty on heterosexuality until we have sorted ourselves out. Because under patriarchy it’s shit."

http://www.radfemcollective.org/news/2015/9/7/an-interview-with-julie-bindel

https://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2016/08/fem_journalist_thinks_men_should_be_shot_0.jpg

https://www.dailywire.com/news/8386...n-are-rapists-and-should-amanda-prestigiacomo


Nothing hateful or anything that could be construed as female supremacy about any of that^^^ am I right ??? Totally about equality!!!

She's got years of shit like this....and there are thousands of other women out there just like her who will also claim feminism and equality till they are blue in the face. All the while openly arguing in favor of women being legally made "more equal" than the other animals.....just like every other bullshit demographic based supremacy group.

 

[Dinosaur1]

So, has the issue of what feminism is really about been resolved?

I do believe the definition was brought forth somewhere around this post on page 2 of this same thread http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=88611206&postcount=95

Though I seriously doubt Richard will admit we both said the same thing using different words. And if anyone wants to still piss and moan about technicalities, then yes both those terms are used verbatim. He and I merely cut an pasted for reason known only to each of us respectfully. Though, I doubt he'll see it the same way, or admit to it. I think the paragraph I'm in at this moment is the one where some, not all, people will get lost due to selective reading comprehension.

Has it all been resolved?
Are all men rapists?
Are the lesbians to blam?
Somebody keep moving the goal posts to suit there own purpose(s)?
Is the feminist movement in danger?
Are feminists only women?
Is it racist to participate or not particpate?
Did men make it all up?
Is the women's liberation movement the same as feminism?
Has the definition of feminism changed?
Is the perception the same now as it was years ago?
Will feminism change in the future?
Why is there so much confusion?
Are heterosexuals an endangered species?
Should any of us really give a shit when others have obviously already made up their minds?
Is it safe for me to leave this argument to whoever is arguing and go about my day, never giving this a 2nd thought because I never did before seeing it?

Someone please let me know because I haven't read much of thread to this point and doubt if I will, though I might if so inclined. Don't be surprised if I do/do not answer. You could PM me, but 1/2 user cp functions are not working. Try clicking that receipt option if you do PM me, but I doubt that function will work either.

This concludes my soapbox.

In the end, I wish you all a good day.

 

[coati]

...and there are thousands of other women out there just like her who will also claim feminism and equality till they are blue in the face. All the while openly arguing in favor of women being legally made "more equal" than the other animals.....just like every other bullshit demographic based supremacy group.

I know, I know, there, there, stop those tears-- It is just so difficult for a Boy to live in a world where there are some other individuals who are as extreme in their viewpoints as the Boy himself.

 

[ConfusedSheep]

We shouldn't minimize domestic abuse, many battered women end up being killed.

True, but a number of studies show that there are behavioral patterns in women which they often return to abusive relationships due to previous histories of dating abusive individuals, or experiencing abuse from parents/family (often both mother and father). I'm not trying to minimize domestic abuse, but you dont see feminists bring up these kinds of points or statistics in regards to violence on males. The ironic bit about the stats is that it is starting to show signs of a paradigm shift, where female on male violence is increasing while male on female violence has kind of stagnated/plateaued. Ofc abuse is bad, but I won't settle for saying that females are the only victims is all.

I might also add: Ask any woman who was raised outside the US and UK, and you'll probably get this standard response: "Yes, society tended or still tends to favor men, but there are also some parts of society in which men get the short end of the stick."
They might or might not disagree about the percentage, but the consensus would be that things aren't as one sided as Feminists make them to be.

I cant/dont speak for other countries, I'm more worried about the US/Canada, not a third world country or rogue states (North Korea being one), and in the middle-east who seek to destroy any semblance of choice and freedom. One comparison I dislike is any other country to the US, there is a reason people choose to immigrate to the US and not the other way. Sure, you can argue businesses leave for other countries, but only for a cheaper alternative (Oreo cookie company moved to Mexico because of the cheap labour offered), but yet you dont see American citizens moving in droves to Mexico because of their quality of living. Although, quality of living is a completely different topic. Most of the scandinavian countries have not experienced as much of the mass immigration from muslims as seen in Germany, France and even in the UK/England (which the UK still holds a high standard of living atm), go figure they move to a country that isn't a shithole ;P, or at least wasn't at the time.

I never understood clearly what motivates those particular Feminists who are so keen to portray things as being absolutely one-sided.

Do they truly believe that only women can be victimized,
or do they have a conscious implicit agenda of changing society towards a matriarchal one?

Its isolating incidents to show the masses, its similar to how "if its out of sight, its out of mind", if the news doesn't report on gender issues non-partisan, then there aren't "male issues" at all. In their heart of hearts, I dont think the genuine feminists believe that it's a one-sided battle, but I do believe many are fighting an illusionary battle: wage gaps (although I will say that some job sectors do have discrimination to some degree, but blown out of proportion), job opportunities (again, females are often favored when interviewed), sexual misconduct in the workforce (the definition of unwanted advances can be exaggerated to some as simple as a male saying "hi, how's it going?").

I do think that, as someone mentioned before, some are weaponizing not just feminism, but racism, theophobias (islamophobia and the like) to reconstruct a social/political system that only changes the targets of oppression, not improve as a collective. Equality is masked as altruistic, but only the select reap the benefits of it.

Idk, I think people argue over the dumbest shit, here included lol. #muhfeels

 

[KimGordon67]

No it wasn't 70's....it's still out there right now today.

It's not the tenets of feminism, it's the hateful people hiding behind and weaponizing them.

Feminism supposedly supports equality....but there are a multitude of prominent feminist out there that are clearly hateful of men and using "feminism" and "equality" to promote their hateful female supremacist ideas up to and including the systematic extermination of men.

Like prominent "feminist" Juli Bindle who wants to put men, who are all rapists in concentration camps!

"Will heterosexuality survive women’s liberation?

It won’t, not unless men get their act together, have their power taken from them and behave themselves. I mean, I would actually put them all in some kind of camp where they can all drive around in quad bikes, or bicycles, or white vans. I would give them a choice of vehicles to drive around with, give them no porn, they wouldn’t be able to fight – we would have wardens, of course! Women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, or take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.

I hope heterosexuality doesn’t survive, actually. I would like to see a truce on heterosexuality. I would like an amnesty on heterosexuality until we have sorted ourselves out. Because under patriarchy it’s shit."

http://www.radfemcollective.org/news/2015/9/7/an-interview-with-julie-bindel

https://www.dailywire.com/sites/default/files/uploads/2016/08/fem_journalist_thinks_men_should_be_shot_0.jpg

https://www.dailywire.com/news/8386...n-are-rapists-and-should-amanda-prestigiacomo


Nothing hateful or anything that could be construed as female supremacy about any of that^^^ am I right ??? Totally about equality!!!

She's got years of shit like this....and there are thousands of other women out there just like her who will also claim feminism and equality till they are blue in the face. All the while openly arguing in favor of women being legally made "more equal" than the other animals.....just like every other bullshit demographic based supremacy group.

So that's 'some feminists' (in fact, one), not 'modern feminism'. Quite a difference.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I never understood clearly what motivates those particular Feminists who are so keen to portray things as being absolutely one-sided.

Same reasons all the other bigots do the same thing.

I know, I know, there, there, stop those tears-- It is just so difficult for a Boy to live in a world where there are some other individuals who are as extreme in their viewpoints as the Boy himself.

You can't name a single thing I've ever said that comes close to the extremes voiced by Julie Bindel and other female supremacist.

But keep making things up!! You're good at that.

So that's 'some feminists' (in fact, one), not 'modern feminism'. Quite a difference.

What is feminism but a collective of individuals?

Feminism = people...and just like with all groups of people some of them are hateful pieces of shit.

And if you genuinely think Bindel, a leading feminist and journalist who's sold a shit load of books, is the only "feminist" out there that is clearly hateful towards men, has no interest at all in equality and openly promotes supremacy then you're so beyond blinded by your own bias you're not worth the effort of conversation.

 

[richard_daily]

Until it's not and it becomes about some animals being more equal than others just like modern feminism has.

You need to go read a book, the title is Animal Farm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Farm

If you expect me to get that it was a quote, at least get the quote right... I have read Animal Farm. I've also read 1984. All these "red pill" idiots miss the points of both of those books.

 

[BotanyBoy]

If you expect me to get that it was a quote, at least get the quote right... I have read Animal Farm. I've also read 1984. All these "red pill" idiots miss the points of both of those books.

I'm not the one who put the quote out, that was BL, I was the one smart enough to connect you two.

No they don't.....pretty much everyone reading it get's the point, the only people who miss it are those still worshiping at the house of communism.

 

[KimGordon67]

Same reasons all the other bigots do the same thing.



You can't name a single thing I've ever said that comes close to the extremes voiced by Julie Bindel and other female supremacist.

But keep making things up!! You're good at that.



What is feminism but a collective of individuals?

Feminism = people...and just like with all groups of people some of them are hateful pieces of shit.

And if you genuinely think Bindel, a leading feminist and journalist who's sold a shit load of books, is the only "feminist" out there that is clearly hateful towards men, has no interest at all in equality and openly promotes supremacy then you're so beyond blinded by your own bias you're not worth the effort of conversation.

She's the only one you cited.

The various forms of feminism are sets of theories and political perspectives. As I"ve said repeatedly to LJ, we argue amongst ourselves a lot. For example, I'm a feminist. While I'm not familiar with Bindel's work, if what you've quoted is representative, I'm not even slightly aligned with it. Rhetoric like hers gets media attention because it conforms to people's misguided perceptions of what feminism 'is'. Meanwhile the vadt majority of feminists are just getting on with their lives, affecting change where they can.
Using someone like Bindel to work out what all feminists are like is about as useful as using RuPaul to work out what all trans folk are like.

 

[KimGordon67]

Wait, are you trolling me? You dont honestly believe what I said has "so much wrong", do you? (you agree with the polling bit, since you didn't mention it.)

a) your opinion.
b) stats are relatively important figures when comparing trends and changes in the social dynamics between males and females. Whether its domestic violence, alimony, child support, custody battles, divorces, who initiates divorces. You can't ignore stats forever...
c) Feminism was started by women, and post modern women are typically feminist by social conditioning in schools, so there are correlations to the general female and feminism...I dont really know what you're arguing here, semantics? "Oh, a woman is not considered a feminist because shes a woman"? Also, I'm not blaming feminism for why people get divorced either lmao, I will say that divorces favor women, which means that the courts and legal system has a feminist agenda ie: favors women, mostly because feminism isn't about "equality for both genders", its been proven to mostly target females.
d) That a joke? I was hyperbolic when I said "rape" for legal procedures, males (unless they have an all-star legal team) will typically lose court battles simply because the plaintiff has a vagina. Again, heres where stats come in regar-wait...I forgot, you dont like stats. Back to rape, males dont get to say "no" when a judge grants full custody of a child to the mother, I'd say that's legal rape anyday of the week.

Your shitty divorce is not the fault of feminsm.
Trust me, I"ve seen plenty of divorces that don't favour the eoman. Don't confuse the way it's done in the US with 'all divorces'.

I've argued the domestic violence case at length in here before. No one actually reads the relevant supporting evidence, and they just continue to bang their own drum, without really responding to any points I make, or only extremely selectively and often with willful misunderstanding. So I've given up. If you eant to believe that DV is just as much a problem for men as for women, feel free.

 

[BotanyBoy]

She's the only one you cited.

I didn't realize I needed to cite every asshole on the internet for you to realize that some people, even feminist with a few books, can be basic bigots and total assholes. I thought putting up an example of a top asshole in an asshole leadership position of sorts was enough evidence that these assholes are real and actively out promoting their assholery.

I'm sorry I gave you so much credit. Exactly how many assholes do I need to cite before you to understand and admit that some feminists are bigoted assholes?

The various forms of feminism are sets of theories and political perspectives.

100% created, supported, cared about and promoted by people.

No people = no feminism.

While I'm not familiar with Bindel's work, if what you've quoted is representative, I'm not even slightly aligned with it. Rhetoric like hers gets media attention because it conforms to people's misguided perceptions of what feminism 'is'.

Just because you're not doesn't mean millions of others aren't.

It's not misguided, there are a LOT of women out there that agree with and avidly support Bindel. If nobody did then so many feminist sites and organizations wouldn't be showering her with money, support and a platform to promote her hate.

Using someone like Bindel to work out what all feminists are like is about as useful as using RuPaul to work out what all trans folk are like.

I agree that's why I never said anything of the sort.

 

[ConfusedSheep]

She's the only one you cited.

The various forms of feminism are sets of theories and political perspectives. As I"ve said repeatedly to LJ, we argue amongst ourselves a lot. For example, I'm a feminist. While I'm not familiar with Bindel's work, if what you've quoted is representative, I'm not even slightly aligned with it. Rhetoric like hers gets media attention because it conforms to people's misguided perceptions of what feminism 'is'. Meanwhile the vadt majority of feminists are just getting on with their lives, affecting change where they can.
Using someone like Bindel to work out what all feminists are like is about as useful as using RuPaul to work out what all trans folk are like.

But she (Bindel) thrives in the postmodernist world. Her success shows that people do believe her ideology, not all, but enough. They buy her books and she has a very vocal/provocative social media presence. She is heralded to some as a champion of feminism, along with many others: Chanty Binx, Jess Phillips (British MP), just to name a few.

It further reinforces that the name of "feminism" has been tarnished by your fellow women. It doesn't matter if you dont align with her ideology, you share the umbrella of the many sects and subcategories of feminism. People dont even need to say "not all feminists" because most women who were classic/OG feminists gave up that title due to the obnoxious examples (Bindel, Phillips, etc) that the media feeds off of.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/only-7-per-cent-of-britons-consider-themselves-feminists/

I firmly believe the term "feminism" should be scrapped, and should just focus on something like Egalitarianism or something. The name "feminism" will never represent equality when its prefix "fem" only stands for female/women, from a basic standpoint of the word.

 

[ConfusedSheep]

Your shitty divorce is not the fault of feminsm.
Trust me, I"ve seen plenty of divorces that don't favour the eoman. Don't confuse the way it's done in the US with 'all divorces'.

I've argued the domestic violence case at length in here before. No one actually reads the relevant supporting evidence, and they just continue to bang their own drum, without really responding to any points I make, or only extremely selectively and often with willful misunderstanding. So I've given up. If you eant to believe that DV is just as much a problem for men as for women, feel free.

Again, I never blamed feminism as the causation of divorce, I'm saying that feminism influences court judgements.

I also dont care about all "divorces" globally, although, that argument doesn't really help your position that much, given that a lot of countries have a variety of laws both simplistic and complex, can vary from male-favoring and male-hating. I care about US/Canada divorces, you dont care much for child custody stats or who initiates divorces first, so I have a hard time understanding why you're even conducting conversation in this thread if you aren't willing to accept factual information, you simply write it off with a cop out like "your shitty divorce isn't cause of feminism!", you just refute with a baseless statement like "no its not!". I never even stated that I got married to begin with...

I also admire your shaming language, categorizing this imaginary divorce as "shitty", as if to insinuate a poor life choice, which I would agree, marriage is indeed a "shitty" concept, especially when someone can choose to not bother trying and give up, easily snaking 1/2 of your finances without question. A number of feminists, who also share part of your tyrannical legion, often take advantage of men in order to further their personal agenda.

Be lucky you're even married, you wouldn't last a week in the current dating climate being single, you'd resort to a unit full of cats and having sour grapes over "I'm such a good feminist, why doesn't anyone want to commit to me!"

#notallfeminazis #marriageisshitty

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I have still never addressed the issue of women CHEERING domestic violence against an innocent man. I lie through my teeth about LT in order to avoid discussing the issue.

I have never once spoken any facts in this thread.

Richard Daily, forever terrified of me. Forever desperate to genuflect to the hate movement that is feminism in hopes of getting laid.

He will die a virgin.
https://i.imgur.com/zBWTVy0.jpg

Male feminist manginas like you say this shit is funny, and even despite that you will never get laid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BVXiHh95Tc

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

(a) So much of this is wrong.

Note she never substantiates this. We're supposed to accept that it's wrong because she said so.

(b) I've tried explaining to LJ why his reliance on things like statistical prevalence comparisons in relation to gendered domestic violence is problematic, but he refuses to listen to any of the more nuanced perspectives. I personally have never said he's been hurt by a woman. I actually don't even think he really hates women per se, just feminists ... sometimes it overflows to capture 'all women' though.

I refuse to listen because every point you made was based on unfounded speculation. You never once provided any cited facts to back up any of your counter arguments. Not one.

(c) 'Women' are not the same as 'feminism'. Really, you're just the confirming 'guy gets screwed over by ex-wife and/or her lawyers, blames feminism' stereotype.

LOL tell Richard Faily that, he seems to think hatred of feminism is the same as hatred of women.

(d) Please don't use 'rape' in respect of your divorce settlement. They're really fundamentally different things. If you feel you were *robbed*, that's a different thing. But as far as I can gather, no one had non-consensual sex with you during your divorce.

But the feminist movement is responsible for our current state of divorce laws, including the screwed up nature of spousal support.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Quick comment before I start:
Re your comments: "There is empirical data that shows females make up a significant amount of domestic violence in relationships" We shouldn't minimize domestic abuse, many battered women end up being killed.

But no one here wants to see women victims minimized.

 

[richard_daily]

What do LT, BB and all the other woman haters in this thread have in common?

They all want to tell women how feminism SHOULD be.

They are the exact reason why feminism is important and necessary today.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Thats a retarded idea, you'd only be polling a biased base of the community who have something personal with him. It's just as stupid if he was to put his ideology onto a poll and only ask MGTOW men if he's crazy for his mentality, you're only reinforcing a biased poll result from 2 different groups of individuals. Even if you were to poll his views globally, you wont get a 90-10/80-20 result in favor of your perception about him, you'd probably get a 60-40 in favor of HIS views because people are getting tired of the victim/feminist narrative in the media and on school facilities.

I dont understand LT's history on these forums, or why people have a bone to pick with him, but a lot of what he says is generally true about feminism and "male violence", there is empirical data that shows females make up a significant amount of domestic violence in relationships. Feminism will never be about altruism and this false idea of "equality" until females are penalized with equal prison sentencing for crimes, and start working as hard/as long as men do to eliminate the mythological "wage gap".

Cognitive dissonance seems seriously strong in a lot of people that respond to LT. He does come off as a touch hateful towards women, maybe his reasons are justified. I find it amusing how some take the "ohhh poor baby must have been hurt by a woman", why dont you try being taken to the cleaners and have your finances legally raped from you, I doubt you'd hold the feminist flag so high if you experienced 1/10 of what guys deal with in the legal realm with women, a couple of family members (uncles) had this happen to them. #notall #yourtimeisupfeminism #getagrip.

People like Richard Daily don't even understand how strongly he resembles the alt right.

The same reasons I hate feminism also are why I have had an equally long and viciously hostile relationship with Conservatives on here.

 

[BotanyBoy]

What do LT, BB and all the other woman haters in this thread have in common?

They all want to tell women how feminism SHOULD be.

They are the exact reason why feminism is important and necessary today.

Where did I ever express hatred for women or tell anyone how feminism should be??



Why must you make shit up and lie about me like that?

Not accepting the word "feminism" like a golden stamp of virtue and altruism from the gods themselves to any and all who claim the title doesn't make you a woman hater.

 

[ConfusedSheep]

What do LT, BB and all the other woman haters in this thread have in common?

They all want to tell women how feminism SHOULD be.

They are the exact reason why feminism is important and necessary today.

I can appreciate a good sense of humor, your comment gave a good chortle.

 

[richard_daily]

People like Richard Daily don't even understand how strongly he resembles the alt right.

The same reasons I hate feminism also are why I have had an equally long and viciously hostile relationship with Conservatives on here.

The reason you hate feminism is because you're scared of women.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

What do LT, BB and all the other woman haters in this thread have in common?

They all want to tell women how feminism SHOULD be.

They are the exact reason why feminism is important and necessary today.

Feminism is a fucking HATE movement that preaches fear of men and revenge against men. It is a movement that is completely devoid of any capacity for empathy. It is a movement that marginalizes women who are assaulted or raped by other women as a byproduct of its quest to define violence as a male-only thing.

Feminism is nothing more than Conservatism but with different targets of hate.

Women need feminism no more than men need the Right Wing.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

have still never addressed the issue of women CHEERING domestic violence against an innocent man. I lie through my teeth about LT in order to avoid discussing the issue.

I have never once spoken any facts in this thread.

https://i.imgur.com/9QspVuh.png

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Where did I ever express hatred for women or tell anyone how feminism should be??



Why must you make shit up and lie about me like that?

Not accepting the word "feminism" like a golden stamp of virtue and altruism from the gods themselves to any and all who claim the title doesn't make you a woman hater.

Richard Daily has repeatedly said that arguing with a feminist or opposing their extremist beliefs is the same as hating women.