Negro dialect?

[WriterDom]

Check this out.

We already knew that 46% of America considers him too liberal. That's why they voted for the hawk and his mean-spirited, know-nothing sidekick.

True, but his approval rating has fallen from 65% down to 46% today. As sad as the republicans look at the moment they'll be running against a different Obama next time.

 

[Netzach]

True, but his approval rating has fallen from 65% down to 46% today. As sad as the republicans look at the moment they'll be running against a different Obama next time.

Bush's approval rating was 46% in 2004. If you actually believe he won, then I wouldn't get so excited.

 

[JMohegan]

It's simple as the nose on my face. Call people what they prefer you call them. If that changes en masse, respond. If a particular person told me "I prefer Negro" I'd adjust around them if I ever needed to use terminology referring to them.

Last time I checked, Reid wasn't using the term Negro on a regular basis. He slipped back to use of an outdated term, in the context of a private conversation and musing.

Like I said, one day you may understand. Maybe not. I'm trying to help you understand, but in the scheme of things my inability to do so isn't important.

 

[Netzach]

Last time I checked, Reid wasn't using the term Negro on a regular basis. He slipped back to use of an outdated term, in the context of a private conversation and musing.

Like I said, one day you may understand. Maybe not. I'm trying to help you understand, but in the scheme of things my inability to do so isn't important.

One day I might understand, yep. Thanks, it's nice that being raised by racists from the greatest generation left me with no concept that you can say the non PC thing and not be satan incarnate - crucifying the error isn't my point. My point remains that if you are positioned in leadership it IS your business to get with the program. Period. Doing AND saying things that don't alienate giant swaths of your electorate in a changing society. If you like your job and if you actually care what the electorate thinks.

One of my main critiques of the Bush admin. is that they didn't even bother to care how anything appeared or sounded to anyone else - I'm pretty even handed in my feeling that there's a place for this.

To be fair, watching the republicans get the religion of multiculturalism all of a sudden, though IS a giant laugh and a half, I'll admit.

 

[WriterDom]

Bush's approval rating was 46% in 2004. If you actually believe he won, then I wouldn't get so excited.

Who do you think is more fired up? The Obama voters or the anti Obama voters? A lot on the far left are disgusted with Obama.

Quite frankly a lot of Obama voters will stay at home and smoke crack or pot during the mid terms. Yeah, I said it.

 

[JMohegan]

True, but his approval rating has fallen from 65% down to 46% today. As sad as the republicans look at the moment they'll be running against a different Obama next time.

The traditional presidential honeymoon period is over; that's neither news nor unusual. As for 2012, two and 3/4 years is a political eternity. Of course a different Obama will be running, but stronger or weaker it's too soon to say.

The main point I'm trying to get at here, WD, is that there has not been some big shift to the right in this country in the wake of Obama's first year - massive palpitations on Fox notwithstanding.

A significant chunk of the dissatisfaction is coming from the LEFT. If you asked me if I approve/disapprove of the President's handling of a lot of issues, I'd pick the latter on many. If you asked me if I'd change my vote for the guy if I could, I'd say of course not, don't be ridiculous.

 

[WriterDom]

Obama approval rating is the second lowest in history at this point in time.

 

[JMohegan]

One day I might understand, yep. Thanks, it's nice that being raised by racists from the greatest generation left me with no concept that you can say the non PC thing and not be satan incarnate - crucifying the error isn't my point. My point remains that if you are positioned in leadership it IS your business to get with the program. Period. Doing AND saying things that don't alienate giant swaths of your electorate in a changing society.

One day you might understand what it's like to be in the older generation, with a broad swath of cultural change behind you and a mind that reminisces in a framework radically different from that of the present. That's what I meant.

I agree with your point. Period.

But again, this was a private conversation. No human being alive engages in perfectly respectful, politically advisable speech 24/7. One private musing using language from an earlier era does not a clueless jerk make.

 

[JMohegan]

Obama approval rating is the second lowest in history at this point in time.

At least he's not at Reagan's lowpoint yet. Whew!

WD, you are entitled to your gloating and your salivating over upcoming elections. But when NY-23 repeats itself in multiple locations, don't say I didn't warn you.




http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/reaganapproval.gif


Source.

 

[Netzach]

Who do you think is more fired up? The Obama voters or the anti Obama voters? A lot on the far left are disgusted with Obama.

Quite frankly a lot of Obama voters will stay at home and smoke crack or pot during the mid terms. Yeah, I said it.

And a lot of McCain/Palin voters will forget it's election day till the crash of the meth leaving their system.

 

[WriterDom]

The thing that would save you is if the tea party springs up. 3rd party helped Clinton twice.. It cost Gore an election.

 

[WriterDom]

At least he's not at Reagan's lowpoint yet. Whew!
]

Reagan was higher at this point in time. I think only Nixon was lower.

 

[DeepGreenEyes]

I'd venture that it's the fallout from health care: liberals are pissed that there's no public option, and conservatives are pissed that something is being done about health care.

2012 is a long, long time away. More importantly, who will the GOP nominate that conservatives and moderates will really get excited about? I'd love to see Palin nominated: have you seen her numbers?

 

[ownedsubgal]

One day you might understand what it's like to be in the older generation, with a broad swath of cultural change behind you and a mind that reminisces in a framework radically different from that of the present. That's what I meant.

I agree with your point. Period.

But again, this was a private conversation. No human being alive engages in perfectly respectful, politically advisable speech 24/7. One private musing using language from an earlier era does not a clueless jerk make.

it's not just his language, it's his entire backwards mentality. personally, i find his use of the word "negro" to be the least offensive part of his comments. far more insulting are his beliefs that african-americans supposedly speak an entirely different language (ooh i'm sorry, "dialect") than whites, and that Obama apparently has two forms of speech (black and white) and can switch between them at will. and of course, he intended it all as a compliment to his pal.

unfortunately though nearly every black person in this country can relate to this. most of us have had a white friend at some point who has made equally ignorant and racist statements to our faces, intended as the highest of praise. i recall at 9 yrs old my best friend bonnie telling me with a smile, "oh, but you're not black black," as explanation for why we were friends after commenting that she hated blacks.

it's just one of those "eh, white people" moments, nothing to start a nuclear war over, but i sure as heck wish that crap would hurry up and die out already.

 

[JMohegan]

it's not just his language, it's his entire backwards mentality. personally, i find his use of the word "negro" to be the least offensive part of his comments. far more insulting are his beliefs that african-americans supposedly speak an entirely different language (ooh i'm sorry, "dialect") than whites, and that Obama apparently has two forms of speech (black and white) and can switch between them at will. and of course, he intended it all as a compliment to his pal.

unfortunately though nearly every black person in this country can relate to this. most of us have had a white friend at some point who has made equally ignorant and racist statements to our faces, intended as the highest of praise. i recall at 9 yrs old my best friend bonnie telling me with a smile, "oh, but you're not black black," as explanation for why we were friends after commenting that she hated blacks.

it's just one of those "eh, white people" moments, nothing to start a nuclear war over, but i sure as heck wish that crap would hurry up and die out already.

Being offended by Reid is certainly your right.

I'm curious to know if you were also offended by the African Americans who initially opposed Obama's candidacy, on the grounds that he wasn't "black enough." For example, see the link found here.


ETA - Marquis' link appears to be dead; here's a replacement.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Being offended by Reid is certainly your right.

I'm curious to know if you were also offended by the African Americans who initially opposed Obama's candidacy, on the grounds that he wasn't "black enough." For example, see the link found here.

"offended?" no. embarrassed? very. those types have always been around, and will never be placated. ignorance knows no color.

 

[JMohegan]

far more insulting are his beliefs that african-americans supposedly speak an entirely different language (ooh i'm sorry, "dialect") than whites, and that Obama apparently has two forms of speech (black and white) and can switch between them at will.

I went to college with an Irish American kid from South Boston, who spoke with a slight accent on campus. Visited his family during spring break one year, and could hardly understand the guy when he was carrying on with his high school buddies. Heavy accent, unfamiliar slang. Different dialect.

Same thing with the Italian Americans I knew from Jersey. Same thing with the African Americans from DC and NY, regardless of economic background.

I have no wish to offend you, osg. But I don't understand why that observation is either ignorant or insulting.

 

[ownedsubgal]

I went to college with an Irish American kid from South Boston, who spoke with a slight accent on campus. Visited his family during spring break one year, and could hardly understand the guy when he was carrying on with his high school buddies. Heavy accent, unfamiliar slang. Different dialect.

Same thing with the Italian Americans I knew from Jersey. Same thing with the African Americans from DC and NY, regardless of economic background.

I have no wish to offend you, osg. But I don't understand why that observation is either ignorant or insulting.

it's ignorant because it's a belief based on a stereotype and assumptions, not reality. unless you are saying, that in your personal observations and experiences, all african-americans have a distinct "black" accent and pattern of speech?...and we slip in and out of this blackspeak at will, depending on whether or not we are consorting with our fellow black compatriots or speaking with the white guy at the job?

if that is what you believe, then i'm afraid you would not find me very "black" either.

 

[JMohegan]

it's ignorant because it's a belief based on a stereotype and assumptions, not reality. unless you are saying, that in your personal observations and experiences, all african-americans have a distant "black" accent and pattern of speech?...and we slip in and out of this blackspeak at will, depending on whether or not we are consorting with our fellow black compatriots or speaking with the white guy at the job?

if that is what you believe, then i'm afraid you would not find me very "black" either.

No, that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that the African Americans whom I have known well speak one way in a mixed general setting (i.e., a setting involving mixed racial or ethnic backgrounds) and another way in a setting that is predominantly African American.

This has absolutely nothing to do with who is/is not "black." Nor is it an assertion relating to *all* African Americans.

With regard to the President specifically, having read his autobiography, I have the clear impression that he has (in the past, if not in the present) demonstrated both an ability and a willingness to alter his speech patterns at will, depending on the audience and company in which he finds himself.

Just like my friend from South Boston.

 

[intothewoods]

it's ignorant because it's a belief based on a stereotype and assumptions, not reality. unless you are saying, that in your personal observations and experiences, all african-americans have a distant "black" accent and pattern of speech?...and we slip in and out of this blackspeak at will, depending on whether or not we are consorting with our fellow black compatriots or speaking with the white guy at the job?

if that is what you believe, then i'm afraid you would not find me very "black" either.

I understand what you're saying about Reid's comments, and while I don't think he meant to say this, I think it's reasonable that it's sort of subtly implied. There was a great article during the election about how everyone does this. I think the jumping off point was actually Hillary Clinton's changing accent on the campaign trail. It's really very natural and we all mimic those around us to some degree.

 

[BiBunny]

I've found it helpful that people judge others by the way the speak. I talk like a fucking hick, and unlike a lot of educated Southerners, I haven't felt the need to get rid of this little quirk of mine. If someone thinks I'm an idiot because of how I say things rather than what I say, then they've saved me a lot of time. Instead of wasting the time of getting to know them and THEN realizing they're an asshole, I already know right off the bat.

 

[Netzach]

it's ignorant because it's a belief based on a stereotype and assumptions, not reality. unless you are saying, that in your personal observations and experiences, all african-americans have a distant "black" accent and pattern of speech?...and we slip in and out of this blackspeak at will, depending on whether or not we are consorting with our fellow black compatriots or speaking with the white guy at the job?

if that is what you believe, then i'm afraid you would not find me very "black" either.

This reminds me about the buzz surrounding Gabourey Sidibe - it's as if every white journalist and a lot of black ones as well are absolutely amazed that she speaks the way she does "valley girl" a lot of them intone. Because a black girl from the Bronx is simply thought incapable of sounding like that and to the point where she takes a lot of shit in her own community for it. OMG, Precious is a character, who could have thought?

JM is right, a lot of people *do* alter their speech and accent at will - I know I sound different at home than I do here - but there's no reason to assume that everyone feels that "in two worlds" kind of thing so acutely, it's very individual. I imagine if you have more or less one mode it's kind of annoying to constantly hear how educated you sound and how "not like" your own race/class/locale.

 

[intothewoods]

I've found it helpful that people judge others by the way the speak. I talk like a fucking hick, and unlike a lot of educated Southerners, I haven't felt the need to get rid of this little quirk of mine. If someone thinks I'm an idiot because of how I say things rather than what I say, then they've saved me a lot of time. Instead of wasting the time of getting to know them and THEN realizing they're an asshole, I already know right off the bat.

What is talking like a hick to you? Is it the accent? Or particular words?

I have had related discussions with Mister Man, because my argument is that people perceive you a certain way depending on how you speak, so it's important to be aware of that in, say, job interviews or business situations. I think he doesn't agree with the level at which I stress this, but his career is also totally different than mine.

Anyway, I just find it kind of interesting. I mean, does it make me an asshole because the way someone speaks provides me with clues about that person? I think I'm only an asshole if I dismiss them based on, say, style over substance.

 

[BiBunny]

What is talking like a hick to you? Is it the accent? Or particular words?

I have had related discussions with Mister Man, because my argument is that people perceive you a certain way depending on how you speak, so it's important to be aware of that in, say, job interviews or business situations. I think he doesn't agree with the level at which I stress this, but his career is also totally different than mine.

Anyway, I just find it kind of interesting. I mean, does it make me an asshole because the way someone speaks provides me with clues about that person? I think I'm only an asshole if I dismiss them based on, say, style over substance.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Being judged solely on how I say something, rather than what I say, and totally written off because of it.

The accent waxes and wanes, but never leaves completely. And I do adjust what I say to my audience, as a rule. But I'm not so self-conscious of it that I actively try to get rid of it like a lot of educated people down here do.

My friends and I call it "educated redneck." I can't think of a better way to describe it, LOL. Sorry.

 

[ownedsubgal]

No, that's not what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that the African Americans whom I have known well speak one way in a mixed general setting (i.e., a setting involving mixed racial or ethnic backgrounds) and another way in a setting that is predominantly African American.

well you would find me odd or unusual then, considering your experiences, as i do not alter my speech based on the predominant race of my particular surroundings. i speak the way i speak, and have never felt inclined to shift back and forth as you're describing. i do not feel i am unusual in this respect.

This has absolutely nothing to do with who is/is not "black." Nor is it an assertion relating to *all* African Americans.

With regard to the President specifically, having read his autobiography, I have the clear impression that he has (in the past, if not in the present) demonstrated both an ability and a willingness to alter his speech patterns at will, depending on the audience and company in which he finds himself.

Just like my friend from South Boston.

i too have read Obama's autobiography, and have listened to many of his speeches to a variety of crowds. in my observations, his speech patterns do not shift according to the race of his audience. now of course sometimes his speech is somewhat more casual, and other times more formal, but that has nothing to do with ethnicity. so as far as i can tell, Obama does not have a "blackspeak" and a "whitespeak," nor do many other african-americans, and hence the offensiveness of Reid's comments.