Nc-17

[Liar]

You're not exactly his target audience, but I'm pretty sure you would recognise him immediately.

In a suit among others, I sure as hell wouldn't. "The Pope" is a posh robe and a big hat. Or sometimes a small one. And if yer gonna talk artist names, he's got one too. It's Benedictus the somethingth.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

In a suit among others, I sure as hell wouldn't. "The Pope" is a posh robe and a big hat. Or sometimes a small one. And if yer gonna talk artist names, he's got one too. It's Benedictus the somethingth.

Exactly. And you can bet that The Pope, with its posh robe and big hat and being the spiritual leader of 1 sixth of the planet and a public figure for at least as many, regardless of who the man may be, is a thousand times more recognizable than a 50 Cent in full gangsta' rapper gear. And Joseph Ratzinger is definitely a thousand times more recognizable name than Curtis James Jackson.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

And Joseph Ratzinger is definitely a thousand times more recognizable name than Curtis James Jackson.

I checked Google, just for kicks.

Joseph Ratzinger: 2.460.000 hits
Curtis James Jackson: 562 hits

So, make that four thousand times.

 

[Slowlane]

Actually, yes, I am saying that (minus the contained content faux pas). Furthermore, I'm saying that if the public hadn't been told those movies had adult content, the public wouldn't even have noticed the adult content, because none of those movies, with the possible exception of Zandalee focus on sex or violence. It's not what those movies are about.

Do you think that any one of those 10 movies is less appropriate to a 16-year-old to watch, for example, than the R-rated Basic Instinct?

That's one of the most ridicules things anyone has ever said. If movies had no rating system box office sales would drop like a rock. Teens are the big movie goers and parents would simply say, “no” unless they have some idea of the content. In fact, I know adults that wouldn’t go.

I’ll repeat – The rating system is a strictly voluntary system set up by the film industry. They don’t need to use it, film makers don’t need to abide by it, and theaters don’t need to post it. If it was dong the industry any damage they wouldn’t use it.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

That's one of the most ridicules things anyone has ever said. If movies had no rating system box office sales would drop like a rock. Teens are the big movie goers and parents would simply say, “no” unless they have some idea of the content. In fact, I know adults that wouldn’t go.

That's a really silly way of avoiding the questions. I'll repeat them, then, and this time respond to what I say instead of going "that's one of the most ridicules (sic) things anyone has ever said" without explaining why it is ridiculous:

If the public hadn't been told those movies had adult content, the public wouldn't even have noticed the adult content, because none of those movies, with the possible exception of Zandalee focus on sex or violence. It's not what those movies are about.

Do you think that any one of those 10 movies is less appropriate to a 16-year-old to watch, for example, than the R-rated Basic Instinct?

I’ll repeat – The rating system is a strictly voluntary system set up by the film industry. They don’t need to use it, film makers don’t need to abide by it, and theaters don’t need to post it. If it was dong the industry any damage they wouldn’t use it.

The industry? Who ever said anything about the industry? Of course the industry doesn't suffer any damage by the MPAA ratings. The MPAA is the industry. What is damaged is movies, the art, and the American public in general.

 

[Liar]

Exactly. And you can bet that The Pope, with its posh robe and big hat and being the spiritual leader of 1 sixth of the planet and a public figure for at least as many, regardless of who the man may be, is a thousand times more recognizable than a 50 Cent in full gangsta' rapper gear.

Exactly. I wasn't talking about the posh hat. I was talking about the bloke underneath it. You are talking about the persona there...

And Joseph Ratzinger is definitely a thousand times more recognizable name than Curtis James Jackson.

...and the person here, when that is convenient for your argument. What will it be?

I checked Google, just for kicks.

Joseph Ratzinger: 2.460.000 hits
Curtis James Jackson: 562 hits

So, make that four thousand times.

Hey, Ratz was famous before he assumed his current name. A bit like Prince. Or Sean Puff Diddlysquat Coombs Diddy Daddy, or whatever the hell his name is.

Alright then, if you go for person when it suits you, I'll go for persona...

"Benedictus xvi" - 169 000 hits
"50 cent" - 8 300 000 hits
Even more narrow, "50 cent" "get rich or die tryin", still beat mr B - 418 000 hits

Or more fairly perhaps...
The anglofied "Benedict xvi" - 2 400 000
"50 cent" plus "hip-hop" to mininize the references to the actual pocket change (although, artistically, he is pocket change ) - 2 310 000 hits
Pretty equal there if you ask me.

You were saying?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

You were saying?

If you want to be fair, then let's try this:

"50 Cent" + "Hip Hop" = 2.160.000 hits.


"Benedictus XVI" or "Benedikt XVI" or "Benedicto XVI" or "Benoît XVI" or "Benedetto XVI" or "Bento XVI" = 30.700.000 hits.

Or we could try

"Pope" = 36.000.000 hits.

Or, to be fairer to you

"Pope" + "Catholic" = 9.300.000 hits.

You were saying?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

"Benedictus XVI" or "Benedikt XVI" or "Benedicto XVI" or "Benoît XVI" or "Benedetto XVI" or "Bento XVI" = 30.700.000 hits.

Duh, make that 40.500.000 hits. I had forgotten "Benedict XVI"

 

[Alex756]

Are these 10 flops bad movies?

Zandalee, 1991, directed by Sam Pillsbury
Kika, 1993, directed by Pedro Almodóvar
Killing Zoe, 1993, directed by Roger Avary
Kids, 1995, directed by Larry Clark
Requiem for a Dream, 2000, directed by Darren Aronofsky
Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down!, 1990, directed by Pedro Almodóvar
L.I.E., 2001, directed by Michael Cuesta
The Dreamers, 2003, directed by Bernardo Bertolucci
Young Adam, 2003, directed by David Mackenzie
Bad Education, 2004, directed by Pedro Almodóvar

is the NC-17 rating significantly differant from what other countries gave these filmes?

TMU TMD was given similar ratings including an 18 in the UK. The people in charge of the film thought evidently a NC-17 instead of an X was very beneficial ... enough to sue.

Killing Zoe was rates 18 in MANy countries. In the US it appears to have been re-rated just an R. Doesn't seem to have helped it's popular appeal.

Would these movies have done better with an R? it appears not from the single example I found so far of one being re-rated.

-Alex

 

[Liar]

"Benedictus XVI" or "Benedikt XVI" or "Benedicto XVI" or "Benoît XVI" or "Benedetto XVI" or "Bento XVI" = 30.700.000 hits.

'snot fair. Dude's got too many names.

I assume Bento is Spanish? How come eveone translates those names (and biblical ones) all the time? We use the latin ones pretty much all over the board up here.

This still doesn't contradict my original claim though.

"Pope" = 36.000.000 hits.

Must be Tim Pope. Yeah.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

is the NC-17 rating significantly differant from what other countries gave these filmes?

Yes, there is a very significant cultural differentiation, because in the US, the percentage of theatres that will automatically dismiss a NC-17-rated movie is much higher than elsewhere. The UK, for example, rates movies with 18+ very easily, but that has little impact on how the movies perform, and on how many theatres they open in. That is why 80% of all NC-17-rated movies eventually push out an edited version to get an R-rating in the US, while the rest of the world gets the original uncensored movie.

And let's see. Of those 10 NC-17 rated movies in the US:

Zandalee - Germany:16
Kika - France:16 / Germany:16 / Sweden:16
Killing Zoe - France:16 / Italy:14 / Netherlands:16
Kids - France:16 / Germany:16 / Norway:15 / Portugal:16 / Sweden:15
Requiem for a Dream - France:12 / Germany:16 / Japan:15
Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down! - Germany:16 / Sweden:15 (Spain:18 and it still was one of all-time biggest box-office sucesses)
L.I.E. - Germany:12 / Portugal:12
The Dreamers - France:12 / Italy:14 / Norway:15 / Sweden:15
Young Adam - France:12 / Germany:16 / Portugal:16
Bad Education - Canada:13+ (Québec) / Canada:14 (Nova Scotia) / France:12 / Italy:14 / Netherlands:12​

That cultural differentiation also affects the public, a large majority of which automatically equates NC-17 with pornography. I don't know if you saw the question above: Do you think that any one of those 10 movies is less appropriate to a 16-year-old to watch, for example, than the R-rated Basic Instinct, based on sexual and violent content?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Hi Lauren.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Actually, we were talking about recognition by sight. If all the people in the world were shown a videotape of Pope Benedict doing what he does and asked "Who is this guy?", X number would say "The Pope" or recognize him by name.

If you were to show everybody in the world a videotape of 50 cent doing what he does and ask "Who is this guy?", Y number would be able to identify him by name or by saying he is a rapper or he is a hip-hop artist. Personally, I think most persons would answer something like "Sheesh! I don't know and I don't wanna know. Shut it off!", but that is neither here nor there.

Anyhow, I believe that X wold be a much bigger number than Y. To be fair, the population being asked would have to be the entire population of: The US, the West, North America, etc. If you were just asking a certain segment, such as: all black males between 16 and 25, or all Catholic women, or all white persons over 50, you wold be stacking the deck.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

'snot fair. Dude's got too many names.

I assume Bento is Spanish? How come eveone translates those names (and biblical ones) all the time? We use the latin ones pretty much all over the board up here.

Bento is Portuguese. Benedicto is Spanish.

This still doesn't contradict my original claim though.

Your original claim was that 50 Cent is more recognizable worldwide than The Pope, which is so far off the mark that isn't even funny. 50 Cent may be more recognizable in his hood in the States, or even in Sweden (though I doubt it), but c'mon. There are 1.000.000.000 Catholics in the world, and a whole lot more non-Catholics that own a television set. How many people in total watch MTV?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Googling doesn't mean anything here. If you google "Pope", you get hits for all kind of things, such as an english poet and a profrssional rassler, etc.

By the way, Lauren, there are far more than one million Catholics in the world. There are more than that many in Rome.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Thanks. Corrected it.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Benedict's latest "concert" gathered over a million people, by the way. I doubt that next month's 50 Cent concert over here will manage 10 thousand.

 

[Liar]

Your original claim was that 50 Cent is more recognizable worldwide than The Pope, which is so far off the mark that isn't even funny.

Once again, I'm not talking about the office. You keep on intepreting me as it suits you. You win, I'm not going to flog a horsie that doesn't fancy it.

Bento is Portuguese. Benedicto is Spanish.

Funky. Thanks.
Now, why doesn't the man just use one name? The vatican calls him Benedictus (or Benedictvs here and there). Why not decree a clobal name? And why is the more original Iohannes John in English, Matteus - Matthew and Paulus - Paul. Really, I'm curious.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Once again, I'm not talking about the office. You keep on intepreting me as it suits you. You win, I'm not going to flog a horsie that doesn't fancy it.

Well, it's what you said, and the only thing that makes sense. The office is a pop star. The man in it is unimportant. When he dies, he's buried in a wooden box.

Funky. Thanks.
Now, why doesn't the man just use one name? The vatican calls him Benedictus (or Benedictvs here and there). Why not decree a clobal name? And why is the more original Iohannes John in English, Matteus - Matthew and Paulus - Paul. Really, I'm curious.

Why go with the Latin names? Why not Hebrew, or Greek?

Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, for example, have all evolved from Latin without breaks. Names evolved with the rest of the language. *shrug*

 

[Liar]

Why go with the Latin names? Why not Hebrew, or Greek?

Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, for example, have all evolved from Latin without breaks. Names evolved with the rest of the language. *shrug*

Yes, yes. Use the hebrew names. Whichever is as close to what they were actually called.

Why change a historical name, or any given name name for that matter, to match what you see in your local 21st century phone book? There is an English as well as an Italian version of my name. Probably a Spanish, Portuguse, Polish, Russian, whatever name too, since it evolved from that of a biblical figure. But if an englishman or italian calls me by their variety of the biblical name, I'll correct them. Cuz ain't me.

The Vatican calls Benedictus Benedictus. And they should know. Why can't the rest of the world do the same?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Languages evolved. S-l-o-w-l-y. For thousands of years.

Biblical characters are supposed to be close to you, touch you on a personal level. How are you expected to relate on personal level with someone whose name you can't even pronounce? It's the same thing with the Pope. He's supposed to be every Catholic's spiritual father. It's always a good thing when you can actually understand your father's name...

 

[Liar]

Languages evolved. S-l-o-w-l-y. For thousands of years.

Yah. I know. What you aiming at?

Biblical characters are supposed to be close to you, touch you on a personal level. How are you expected to relate on personal level with someone whose name you can't even pronounce? It's the same thing with the Pope. He's supposed to be every Catholic's spiritual father. It's always a good thing when you can actually understand your father's name...

Got a point there. We use mostly latin names in the bible. Maybe that's why we're so bloody secular up here.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Yah. I know. What you aiming at?

Just that. There probably wasn't a conscious decision made, no one woke up and said, "I know, today we're going to start referring to שמעון בן יונה as Peter."

 

[Liar]

Just that. There probably wasn't a conscious decision made, no one woke up and said, "I know, today we're going to start referring to שמעון בן יונה as Peter."

U sure about that? I'd guess that major reform in definitions and solidification of definitions have come with milestone books like the King James' and it's equivalence in different cultures. Our Bible names stem form the Gustav Vasa (16th century king) bible.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

U sure about that? I'd guess that major reform in definitions and solidification of definitions have come with milestone books like the King James' and it's equivalence in different cultures. Our Bible names stem form the Gustav Vasa (16th century king) bible.

That would explain why you use Latin names, then. Romance languages evolved directly from that common Latin root, so our names evolved with them, naturally.