My ex is a sadist and it broke us up - I need advice

[Recidiva]

I know you were talking about the person in the OP. My brain is not really in high gear today, but I was trying to point out to the OP that just because she is weirded out by this guy doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be doing hard time in the Pen one day.

*Bows out of the conversation because I think I'm muddying the waters more than I'm clarifying them at the moment*

Nah, it's okay.

I'm just trying to clarify a few points for myself, input is helpful.

Unfortunately I travel lots of boards on Lit, and the place I get in the most trouble, bar none, is here. It's got a very exclusive attitude, it doesn't brook any deviation from the unstandard norm, and anybody who has a differing opinion is shouted down.

I understand it may be a community for support, but it's outreach efforts suck. It's very exclusive, and thrives on excluding. But then demands inclusion. It's a very strange dynamic, which I get in a theoretical sense. I've ended up friendly fire more often than I can count.

Unfortunately I often come to the determination that dissent or disagreement, although from a community that seems to want acceptance and has some pride in itself, is so very narrow minded itself.

It's a bit like visiting any minority group to determine they are just as close minded and set on their own rules and way things work as the majority. No difference at all, really.

So welcome to the mainstream of humanity. "You don't understand me, you suck."

I unfortunately expect more from folks who are otherwise misunderstood, and that is my error. In the end, everyone's fighting for the same thing. The supremacy of their way of life as superior, not equal.

This isn't directed AT you or anyone here, just as a general observation about the tone. It's hard to feel welcome if you're different, anywhere.

I find it ironic that oversensitivity seems to be dramatized and revered.

Anyway, there's my "invitation to flame and denial" for the day. Have at it.

 

[MTskibunny]

I am not judging anyone here. I am very open minded and I expressed that I am not opposed to S&M already. My opinions may be different. I am new to this world, as well.

I like hearing opposing views when its about the subject and not a personal attack on anyone.


Thanks for your input

 

[FurryFury]

Some people do NOT know themselves.

Some of what they do about themselves know scares and shames them. So they earnestly try to push it down, prove it isn't so and ultimately usually end up profoundly unhappy.

They also often try to push others down to artificially elevate themselves. They often find themselves doing things they "didn't" mean. They act inconsistently, and with great anger making people around them confused and hurt.

Sometimes they are even scary.

I was married to some one like that. He could talk a good game. It didn't seem like a game. It seemed earnest and real because he seemed to believe his own crap. He didn't send up red flags like someone who knew he was a lying ass hole would. This is one of the most frightening types around.

Not only did he make me suffer in just about every way one person can make another suffer. He made himself suffer.

I often think if he had merely looked at his dark and gray parts that he found so frightening and resolved his own self worth issues, we could have had a great D/s relationship that was actually healthy.

This isn't on YOU.

It's on HIM.

No one can help him until he accepts he needs it. Which may never happen.

You survived and got out. Congratulations. You have a great chance at resolving any issues you got from being with this one mixed up person!

However you should know that not everyone does sadism in this fucked up way. Not everyone therefore finds sadism the big bad.

While some may indeed play BDSM games. For others it's like breathing and not game at all.

Good luck to you,

Fury

 

[A Desert Rose]

I am not judging anyone here. I am very open minded and I expressed that I am not opposed to S&M already. My opinions may be different. I am new to this world, as well.

I like hearing opposing views when its about the subject and not a personal attack on anyone.


Thanks for your input

My apologies for offending you and Recidiva. That was not my intent.

 

[CutieMouse]

MTskibunny, I apologize if my "big deal" comment sounded flippant. I do understand it's a big deal to those going through it; my comment was more directed at those viewing your ex as being Satan, Himself for having sadistic desires.

If he *needed* S/m in his relationships, then yes, the responsible thing would have been to mention it early in the realtionship. The tricky thing, is he might not have realized he *needed* it, before he started playing with it (real time). Emily Post doesn't exactly cover how to discuss your sadism on the first date, either. Did he handle it poorly (understatement)- yes.

Where I have a personal disconnect is the "sexual sadism" versus "actual sadism"... I don't get the deliniated seperation.

I would define AngelicAssassin or Evil_Geoff as sadists. Do I believe they run around doing painfully twisted things to others without consent? Nope. Do I believe they get their jollies from tearing the wings off flies? Nope. Do I believe they are "actual sadists"? Yep.

The gentleman you were involved with was A) incompatable with you, and B) sounds like he was irresponsible in how he managed his interests/desires/your relationship. I'm very glad you saw the red flags and ended the relationship, even though it was painful to do so; however, *his* disfunctionality doesn't mean all sadists are disfunctional.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think he is a full blown sadist. Most people I know who are into s&m are playing out a role of fantasy. I dont them as being that person. With my ex....he scares me.....do you think I should be concerned or do you think that is perfectly normal? Sadism broke my heart and it ruined our relationship. I hardly see it as harmless in this circumstance.

I haven't read the whole thread due to time constraints at the moment, but I think while your experience with people in SM may be that it is all about fantasy and role playing, it is not how everyone sees and experiences it. Your former partners inability to have sex without SM involved is not something to be thought of as dangerous or strange, just different to those who do it just for fun. F is also one who is not interested in sex for sex sake and must have SM involved to make it worth his time and effort or even interesting....doesn't make him a monster, just not vanilla. As to your former partner wanting to tie you up spread eagle, that seems fairly standard fantasy material for many who are into bondage, not to mention SM. He may need more time to explore and become aware of just what is safe, but even that is going to vary depending on his partner. Many a masochist would think they were in heaven to find someone who expressed the desires he did to you. I wouldn't say sadism broke your heart or relationship, difference in taste and needs did...we are all individuals and all have our own particular needs, if yours don't work with someone you are dating, that does not make them or you strange or abnormal, just different and quite possibly incompatible.

Catalina

 

[BiBunny]

I haven't read the whole thread due to time constraints at the moment, but I think while your experience with people in SM may be that it is all about fantasy and role playing, it is not how everyone sees and experiences it. Your former partners inability to have sex without SM involved is not something to be thought of as dangerous or strange, just different to those who do it just for fun. F is also one who is not interested in sex for sex sake and must have SM involved to make it worth his time and effort or even interesting....doesn't make him a monster, just not vanilla. As to your former partner wanting to tie you up spread eagle, that seems fairly standard fantasy material for many who are into bondage, not to mention SM. He may need more time to explore and become aware of just what is safe, but even that is going to vary depending on his partner. Many a masochist would think they were in heaven to find someone who expressed the desires he did to you. I wouldn't say sadism broke your heart or relationship, difference in taste and needs did...we are all individuals and all have our own particular needs, if yours don't work with someone you are dating, that does not make them or you strange or abnormal, just different and quite possibly incompatible.

Catalina

I agree. Sex without some kind of D/s or S&M involved just doesn't do it for me anymore. Even when I need for him to be gentle with me, I still like to be tied up for it. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, nor do I think there's anything wrong with someone having a "dark" side.

 

[FurryFury]

Nah, it's okay.

I'm just trying to clarify a few points for myself, input is helpful.

Unfortunately I travel lots of boards on Lit, and the place I get in the most trouble, bar none, is here. It's got a very exclusive attitude, it doesn't brook any deviation from the unstandard norm, and anybody who has a differing opinion is shouted down.

I understand it may be a community for support, but it's outreach efforts suck. It's very exclusive, and thrives on excluding. But then demands inclusion. It's a very strange dynamic, which I get in a theoretical sense. I've ended up friendly fire more often than I can count.

Unfortunately I often come to the determination that dissent or disagreement, although from a community that seems to want acceptance and has some pride in itself, is so very narrow minded itself.

It's a bit like visiting any minority group to determine they are just as close minded and set on their own rules and way things work as the majority. No difference at all, really.

So welcome to the mainstream of humanity. "You don't understand me, you suck."

I unfortunately expect more from folks who are otherwise misunderstood, and that is my error. In the end, everyone's fighting for the same thing. The supremacy of their way of life as superior, not equal.

This isn't directed AT you or anyone here, just as a general observation about the tone. It's hard to feel welcome if you're different, anywhere.

I find it ironic that oversensitivity seems to be dramatized and revered.

Anyway, there's my "invitation to flame and denial" for the day. Have at it.

I'm not going to flame you but I will say that I've had the exact opposite experience on this BDSM board than what you describe.

I've never had a problem with other people seeing things differently from the way I do either.

*shrugs*

Fury

 

[Recidiva]

I'm not going to flame you but I will say that I've had the exact opposite experience on this BDSM board than what you describe.

I've never had a problem with other people seeing things differently from that way I do either.

*shrugs*

Fury

Mileage may vary

 

[JMohegan]

He said he was a virgin and he was waiting until marriage (he is 28). He really was a virgin. I told myself at first that I wouldnt take his virgnity. I came to realize over time that he really wasnt too concerned about waiting.....he sucks with women and I dont think he had many chances to lose it. I found out that he joined ALT.come and was thinknig about losing it on a one night stand. After I found that out, I didnt feel bad having sex.
We met online. As we got to know eachother better, we started talking more about sex and he started opening up about what he was into. He mentioned dom and sub, which i think is hot! Then....on our first date......he mentioned his biggest desire.....to try a mock rape. I was very taken back. I am NOT ok with that.....especially coming from some "christian" virgin. He dropped it.
I let him tie me up.....spank me.....give me orders......He started scaring me in bed. His personality instantly changed. Even when we were just lightly fooling around....he would tell me what he wants to do to me.....He was really into total control. He wanted me...spread eagle....tied up for days...helpless....he emphasized a lot about sneaking up on me and other girls....not knowing where he is....and "taking what he gives me".....he loved that phrase.

Several possibilities occur to me here.

1) This guy was a 28 year old virgin whose visits to porn sites led him to believe that mimicking the behavior of actors on those sites would improve his chances for success with women.

2) This guy is a misogynist whose bitterness and anger at repeated rejection by women render him dangerous indeed.

3) This guy is aroused by power, control, and the delivery of pain during consensual sexual encounters with women. Perhaps his reluctance to accept his own sexuality, as well as his fear of rejection, disgust, and outrage on the part of a potential partner, prevented him from disclosing this side of himself to another and seeking intimacy in the past.

I'm sure there are other possibilities as well. It's really difficult to say without his input.

With my ex....he scares me.....do you think I should be concerned or do you think that is perfectly normal?

normal = conforming to the standard or the common type.

What is the standard by which you seek to measure him?

If you are talking about all heterosexual males, my observation (from speaking to many, and including myself) is that rape fantasies are very normal; actually engaging in mock rape scenes with a partner is not normal; being a virgin at 28 is not normal; and the inability to orgasm without SM activity is not normal either.

If you are talking about sadists in the BDSM sense, my observation (again, from speaking to many, and including myself) is that rape fantasies are very normal; actually engaging in mock rape scenes with a partner is normal (but not universal); being a virgin at 28 is not normal; and the inability to orgasm without SM activity is normal (but not universal).

Should you be concerned? Well, since you describe him as your "ex", my inclination is to answer no. Unless, of course, possibility #2 above was correct. In which case you should probably change your locks, keep your eyes open, alert the neighbors, etc.

 

[JMohegan]

There are quite a few people in BDSM who get off on "mock rape"... I believe it's actually one of the most common taboo fantasies. Pulling off a rape to be realistic, without ending up in jail, however, is a rather tall order. I think Evil_Geoff posted about doing a rape scene at one time... or maybe it was JMohegan... anywhooo.....

On this thread, you will find comments from me & others on the subject, as well as a link to Geoff's writeup.

From personal experience, I would describe this as high risk/high reward behavior.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I agree. Sex without some kind of D/s or S&M involved just doesn't do it for me anymore. Even when I need for him to be gentle with me, I still like to be tied up for it. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, nor do I think there's anything wrong with someone having a "dark" side.

LOL, well I do remember F saying he was seriously beginning to think there was something wrong with him because he didn't really see much reward in sex, but then he found his sadistic soul and discovered just what he had been needing to make it interesting and irresistable.

Catalina

 

[CutieMouse]

On this thread, you will find comments from me & others on the subject, as well as a link to Geoff's writeup.

From personal experience, I would describe this as high risk/high reward behavior.

You are a search-god.

 

[JMohegan]

You are a search-god.

Ha, ha, thanks.

The real god is the Cowboy, though. He taught me everything I know.

 

[CutieMouse]

Ha, ha, thanks.

The real god is the Cowboy, though. He taught me everything I know.

Well, I hold each of you in high esteem, for your ability to find the appropriate threads when needed, and uncanny ability to remember comments and topics which might be relevant to the discussion at hand.

I remember vauge snippets of conversations, lectures, things I've read, etc, and it all gets mish-moshed up into a frazzled muddle in my head, which no search feature could ever possibly make heads or tails of. LOL

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

I think one day we'll be reading about this nut in the paper. Just what we need. More bodies in a barrel.

What he said...Sounds like a very bad thing just waiting to happen. I don't know much but would think that for that to be okay it would be so within the boundaries of your mutual trust and agreement. I don't think that was there. At least he could admit what he felt was dark. I would sooooooo be running the other way.

 

[WriterDom]

Nah, it's okay.


Unfortunately I travel lots of boards on Lit, and the place I get in the most trouble, bar none, is here. It's got a very exclusive attitude, it doesn't brook any deviation from the unstandard norm, and anybody who has a differing opinion is shouted down.

At.

Actually you only post on 3 boards. The GB, Authors hangout, and here. 80% on the gb. The most trouble here. That's laughable.

 

[Recidiva]

Actually you only post on 3 boards. The GB, Authors hangout, and here. 80% on the gb. The most trouble here. That's laughable.

Well, you're right about one thing.

You posting a thread on the GB that I'd left my husband, that was laughable.

And the HTCafe, the Poetry Boards and the Playground are still boards. If you want to discuss respect for facts or people.

 

[WriterDom]

The GB is laughable.

 

[WriterDom]

Well, you're right about one thing.

You posting a thread on the GB that I'd left my husband, that was laughable.

And the HTCafe, the Poetry Boards and the Playground are still boards. If you want to discuss respect for facts or people.

With all respect I did go back 20 pages.

 

[ChainedRebel]

Unfortunately I travel lots of boards on Lit, and the place I get in the most trouble, bar none, is here. It's got a very exclusive attitude, it doesn't brook any deviation from the unstandard norm, and anybody who has a differing opinion is shouted down.

I understand it may be a community for support, but it's outreach efforts suck. It's very exclusive, and thrives on excluding. But then demands inclusion. It's a very strange dynamic, which I get in a theoretical sense. I've ended up friendly fire more often than I can count.

And that the truth! Don't let my post count fool ya, I've been around this block. Yet here I am back again...Maybe I really am a masochist...

As to the original poster's concerns...

I too have troubles with the post but a lot of it is because there is some missing information.

My first reaction is, why? Why were you sleeping with a guy you met on line, swear you knew, who said he wanted a "mock rape" on the VERY FIRST DATE despite allegedly being a virgin? And why would you grant him access to your submission and continue a sexual;y and emotionally intimiate, if even on only your end, relationship with some one who was actually scaring you? Now maybe there is more going on here than we know at the moment but my first reaction is these situations is almost always the same, where is your responisibility in this? At least in terms of the relationship, not his tendancies or desires.

I always have to shake my head in confusion when folks come rushing in to say they will not judge or condemn someone based upon a one-sided view. Um, hello, this is the internet and a sex site and with the occassional exceptions it isn't really a joint participant couple's outreach forum. Aside from the regulars, the bulk of posters, in the BDSM or other areas are giving you one side on just about everything. No, we don't have to judge, condemn, or criticisize the person the OP is mentioning but all we have is the info given and a request for input. So ya work with what you got with that in mind.

As for his tendancies, based soley upon what you've presented, I'd say Spanky has some issues. Now, that doesn't mean he's going to forcibly rape some poor lady, but it doesn't mean he won't either. Just means I, me, personally, think he has issues to some degree or another.

A) How many 28yo male virgins are out there? Undoubtedly there are and that in and of itself doesn't mean a whole lot. But it does cause an eye-brow to cock.

B) Given that we are dealing with a 28yo virgin, how many of them are logging onto ALT.com to find their first encounter? And if I'm reading things right, didn't he pursue this after you and he were already an "item?"

C) How many virgins on their first date tell their partner they want to mock rape them? Um, huh? Now, maybe I'm just flashing back to being an insanely hormonal 15yo but when I had my first full time with a girl I couldn't think of a single freakin' fantasy I'd ever had. I just wanted to touch and taste and feel and generally be in awe.

D) He comes right out and says he can't make love to you and he needs all this total control and what not, what exactly is he basing this on? His vast sexual experience? His deep understanding of the unique and wonderful dynamics of men and women? His learned perception of what it means to exert total and complete control over another? Or perhaps it is all based upon his own fantasies and perceived, and apparently ignorant desires?

Yeah, I think he's got issues. What those issues are, I don't know and maybe they'll never amount to anything. But what they will definately amount to, as this post seems to suggest, is a bunch of frustration and misguided endevours that may leave others behind in the emotional wake. And he will not be immune to those turmoils either. So I say, let someone else sort him out. Life's short.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

... With my ex....he scares me.....do you think I should be concerned or do you think that is perfectly normal? Sadism broke my heart and it ruined our relationship. I hardly see it as harmless in this circumstance.

Since _I_ don't know your ex, I'm not about to make that call. Since the only information I'm getting is what you are presenting to us, I'm not going to make that call.

I'm sorry your relationship didn't work out, and I'm sorry you feel afraid of and or afraid for your ex. Was sadism to blame for your relationship failure? Perhaps. Or perhaps it was your own fear of embracing that level of intensity.

I can't say.

Just because my fantasies frequently involve the use of chains, locks, barbed wire, naked women, knives and the ocassional splash of blood doesn't mean that I am dangerous. It _should_ mean I'm scarey as hell to some people, and OMG, panty soaking hot! to others.

I'm a sadist and if that makes you uncomfortable, I apologize, but that is who and what I am. Please keep in mind that while I find screams and tears to be highly erotic, I do not randomly seize people off the street and inflict myself and my desires on them. I get volunteers for it. I understand and accept that I need informed consent from my play partners. But I really, really get off on them whimpering and begging, when the tears start falling, when I reach a point in the play where I ask "Is that enough?" and they can't even speak, all they can do is nod their heads "yes"...

Your "ex" sounds like someone trying to come to terms with himself. He's been brought up in a society that tells him everything he wants and craves, what he needs in a relationship is "wrong"... or "evil"... or "sick"... or "perverted"... or a "sin"... Finding strong, accepting, willing partners is hard, learning the skills necessary to carry of that kind of play without doing harm to one's partners is difficult.

Could he be a danger to himself or others? Certainly it's possible. It's also possible that he just needs some validation and education and acceptance to grow into the kind of sadist that folks point to and say "where's MTskibunny's ex when we need him? ? ?" Is his sadism to the point where it is pathological? Could be. But I'm not a shrink, and even if I were, I don't think I'd try to make that diagnosis without talking to the patient him/herself first.

So at this point I will stop and simply say skibunny, I wish you much luck in the future, and I hope your ex finds his way back to healthy, growing, loving, relationships.

 

[nh23]

I'm not going to flame you but I will say that I've had the exact opposite experience on this BDSM board than what you describe.

I've never had a problem with other people seeing things differently from the way I do either.

*shrugs*

Fury

You said it..that's what i was gonna say when i read that post also. i've never felt that way on this board. And if i post a question or comment i expect everyone's honest opinion....

 

[SweetErika]

MT, I can't add anything to the responses you've received, especially Geoff's wonderful post.

Nah, it's okay.

I'm just trying to clarify a few points for myself, input is helpful.

Unfortunately I travel lots of boards on Lit, and the place I get in the most trouble, bar none, is here. It's got a very exclusive attitude, it doesn't brook any deviation from the unstandard norm, and anybody who has a differing opinion is shouted down.

I understand it may be a community for support, but it's outreach efforts suck. It's very exclusive, and thrives on excluding. But then demands inclusion. It's a very strange dynamic, which I get in a theoretical sense. I've ended up friendly fire more often than I can count.

Unfortunately I often come to the determination that dissent or disagreement, although from a community that seems to want acceptance and has some pride in itself, is so very narrow minded itself.

It's a bit like visiting any minority group to determine they are just as close minded and set on their own rules and way things work as the majority. No difference at all, really.

So welcome to the mainstream of humanity. "You don't understand me, you suck."

I unfortunately expect more from folks who are otherwise misunderstood, and that is my error. In the end, everyone's fighting for the same thing. The supremacy of their way of life as superior, not equal.

This isn't directed AT you or anyone here, just as a general observation about the tone. It's hard to feel welcome if you're different, anywhere.

I find it ironic that oversensitivity seems to be dramatized and revered.

Anyway, there's my "invitation to flame and denial" for the day. Have at it.

I'd be interested in seeing examples of your assertions here, Recidiva, because, as others have said, my experience has been very different from yours.

Perhaps starting a thread would be a good idea. Maybe examples will help us see your perspective better and rectify the behaviors that seem unwelcoming.

 

[Recidiva]

I'd be interested in seeing examples of your assertions here, Recidiva, because, as others have said, my experience has been very different from yours.

Perhaps starting a thread would be a good idea. Maybe examples will help us see your perspective better and rectify the behaviors that seem unwelcoming.

That would certainly be more productive, and I appreciate the concern.

If this is something of interest, certainly, I'll start a thread. I really don't want to proselytize or convince anyone.

Vanilla, is not a compliment here. There are anti-vanilla campaigns and laments over the vanilla folks in life.

Take any other group, insert a word that means "not us" and try the same thing, it's an insult. Even in this thread, I was objecting to "I don't even try to explain to vanilla people any more." and although being that sequestered is understandable, it's also not. That's my main objection. I don't see the reason for "outsiders" being publicly mocked. I might compare it to going to the GBLT board and seeing open rants about straight people. Bigotry or complete unwillingness to reach out to or understand people who are different from you doesn't just belong to a majority. It's a human thing. But it's embraced here to a level that it's assured to exclude anyone who might consider themselves the slightest bit vanilla.

Everyone's welcome to their own opinion, their own behavior. I'm welcome to say when I think it's rude and there's a better way. For anyone proud of themselves, proud of who they are, I support them. When it goes from personal pride and personal "this works for me" into "but everyone else is ignorant, boring, vanilla, uncommitted, bowing to society's pressure, etc." I lose my sense of personal pride and venture into "Why is putting other people down, who are also proud of who they are, and that works for them, necessary?"