Multiculturalism will be the death of us all

[RoryN]

I'll say it to your face; I'm not hiding behind a keyboard.

Being a fighter and voicing opinion in public both require a different set of proverbial testicles.

So your "ring" comment means nothing.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

That's only one aspect. Let me be less subtle; why is it that the same people that can easily identify and codify hateful speach are so completely incapable of passing judgement on another culture?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

In a world where no art can offend, why the insistence on sensitivity to another's culture?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Being a fighter and voicing opinion in public both require a different set of proverbial testicles.

So your "ring" comment means nothing.

Tell that to Mike Tyson or Leon Spinks. I was also a Marine; harldy the candidate to be the board wall-flower in real life. I am larger than life, few can intimidate me into silence unless like Oliver, they can corner me into looking st-st-st-stupid and you sir, are not capable of that.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

That's only one aspect. Let me be less subtle; why is it that the same people that can easily identify and codify hateful speach are so completely incapable of passing judgement on another culture?

And visa versa: why are some who are so quick to point out the flaws in others' cultures so blind the inequities in their own?

Methinks someone still pines for a segregated America.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

I pine for the restoration of a Republic where each citizen is a black box; a citizen to which each law is written to affect and not the rich citizen or the black citizen of the illegal citizen or the citizen of Wyoming or the citizen in a huge city or the citizen in the project; where laws are written in one, and only one, language. It is the glue that binds.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I pine for the restoration of a Republic where each citizen is a black box; a citizen to which each law is written to affect and not the rich citizen or the black citizen of the illegal citizen or the citizen of Wyoming or the citizen in a huge city or the citizen in the project; where laws are written in one, and only one, language. It is the glue that binds.

Did that place ever exist? I admit it's a nice thought.

You're right that certain strains of thought advocate that no value judgements about other cultures can be made. But that's more a radical Postmodernism ethic than Kant (which is the absolute opposite - duty ethics specificying the method through which we may supposedly come up with universal laws of behavior.) and it's hardly mainstream.

You really attack a straw-man version of multiculturalism. What moderate multicultural views advocate is an understanding of other cultures and a tolerance of them where possible, so knee-jerk xenophobia doesn't take over.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

It's not a straw-man multiculturalism I attack, but the de-facto, working version we have created.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

It's not a straw-man multiculturalism I attack, but the de-facto, working version we have created.

And what would happen if we rolled it back?

I assume you know that the history of the world is essentially that of cultures hacking each other to bits, right?

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

And I am not Xenophobic; I bucked the tide on the Dubai ports deal and pointed out that they are remodling their culture more along the lines of the ideal I just described; exporting the dream of our founding fathers, our greatest commodity...

They want to be like us.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

And what would happen if we rolled it back?

I assume you know that the history of the world is essentially that of cultures hacking each other to bits, right?

One cannot be the product of multi-races and cultures and NOT be painfully aware of that...

Who knows? You implement some changes like the Fair-Tax and stop playing divide-and-conquer politics with the citizenry in the Congress and you might see a helluva lot more racial harmony and diversity; when everyone knows they are getting screwed by the government, just blindly, and equally, then, yeah, we're usually more happy to know we haven't been singled out for some special leveling of the playing field. A pig-fuck based on who or what we are...

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

You're a good sport, AJ.

I'm not sure how much they want to be like us.

They want our $.

Then again, maybe they do wanna be like us.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

I am an idiot. I rather suspect they want to be like you.

tee hee
tee hee

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

One cannot be the product of multi-races and cultures and NOT be painfully aware of that...

Who knows? You implement some changes like the Fair-Tax and stop playing divide-and-conquer politics with the citizenry in the Congress and you might see a helluva lot more racial harmony and diversity; when everyone knows they are getting screwed by the government, just blindly, and equally, then, yeah, we're usually more happy to know we haven't been singled out for some special leveling of the playing field. A pig-fuck based on who or what we are...

There's no doubt that there's a lot of racial demagoguery that goes on. It obviously works. But I just don't think you can take a completely color/culture-blind approach to politics and expect it to work for very long. People like to associate with their groups, vie against others, compete, oppress, dominate, subjugate. Intellectually, it would be a fascinating experiment to see the results of, but I'm not willing to vote for it.

 

[Mr.L.J.M]

Do you even have a clue what you're talking about?

Kant's categorical imperative justifies absolute moral obligations (most notably the golden rule), not cultural relativism.

Where do you get your BS?

my thoughts exactly.... summed up perfectly

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

I stand by that as per Rand. What she wrote about the movement that produced multi-culturalism in the late 60's and early 70's and where, how and why it would culminate turned out to be far nearer the mark than either 1984 or Brave New World and they are praised as works of great premiscience.

As per Dostoevsky, this class of intellectual loves neither nation nor culture and would be happier off without the burdens of either. They are dreamers and the first to migrate towards von Humboldt's pernicious evil, "the positive inteference of government," and the unleashing of the laws of uninteded consequences, one being that of putting us at each other's throats over trifles and invented injury.

 

[Ishmael]

I stand by that as per Rand. What she wrote about the movement that produced multi-culturalism in the late 60's and early 70's and where, how and why it would culminate turned out to be far nearer the mark than either 1984 or Brave New World and they are praised as works of great premiscience.

As per Dostoevsky, this class of intellectual loves neither nation nor culture and would be happier off without the burdens of either. They are dreamers and the first to migrate towards von Humboldt's pernicious evil, "the positive inteference of government," and the unleashing of the laws of uninteded consequences, one being that of putting us at each other's throats over trifles and invented injury.

But those law suits are big business.

Ishmael

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

I stand by that as per Rand. What she wrote about the movement that produced multi-culturalism in the late 60's and early 70's and where, how and why it would culminate turned out to be far nearer the mark than either 1984 or Brave New World and they are praised as works of great premiscience.

As per Dostoevsky, this class of intellectual loves neither nation nor culture and would be happier off without the burdens of either. They are dreamers and the first to migrate towards von Humboldt's pernicious evil, "the positive inteference of government," and the unleashing of the laws of uninteded consequences, one being that of putting us at each other's throats over trifles and invented injury.

That's quite eloquent.

I'll be provocative. Are you sure you wouldn't prefer Cynthia McKinney and Jesse Jackson and Trent Lott and all the other scions of racial politics to pogroms or Jim Crow or the like?

 

[Ishmael]

That's quite eloquent.

I'll be provocative. Are you sure you wouldn't prefer Cynthia McKinney and Jesse Jackson and Trent Lott and all the other scions of racial politics to pogroms or Jim Crow or the like?

Lott was excortiated for what Jesse and Cynthia do every day and Lott didn't even do it on purpose.

We can't, and aren't going to, bring back Jim Crow. But neither should we tolerate race baiters and racial extortionists. Cynthias so blatant that even the black caucus has turned their back on her and Jesses reduced himself to a joke.

Regardless, it's going to be interesting to see where the black community comes down WRT the illegal alien issue. It seems that that community is finding more and more common cause with the conservatives daily which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Those people are the hangover to one of our nation's great celebrations...

Are you accepting the premise that we can't step up to the plate and achieve something better by treating each and every tax-paying citizen without tribal affiliations?

Sending Mz McKinney to jail and telling Jesse Jackson to shut up (and expose his TRUE record) would do the country great good. Lott's already had his come-uppance which was okay since he was viewed as a white citizen. Multi-culturalism is the easy way out of laws that inconvienience people who have been taught and directed to identify themselves as "victims," another trademark of the movement.

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Lott was excortiated for what Jesse and Cynthia do every day and Lott didn't even do it on purpose.

We can't, and aren't going to, bring back Jim Crow. But neither should we tolerate race baiters and racial extortionists. Cynthias so blatant that even the black caucus has turned their back on her and Jesses reduced himself to a joke.

Regardless, it's going to be interesting to see where the black community comes down WRT the illegal alien issue. It seems that that community is finding more and more common cause with the conservatives daily which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Ishmael

They're bringing back segregation to Omaha, and that's supposed to be a "good" thing!

 

[Mr.L.J.M]

would you guys mind sharing your opinion on nelson mandela?

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Are you accepting the premise that we can't step up to the plate and achieve something better by treating each and every tax-paying citizen without tribal affiliations?

I do. I grew up in the South and live in the South and am fully confident that people will treat themselves by their tribal affiliations even if the government doesn't. They always have and I can't imagine that they'll ever stop. It's one of the ironies of modern politics that conservatives have coopted MLK's dream of a colorblind nation to justify opposition to government policies that don't consider race.

The slogans arguing for colorblindness sound nice, but I never quite believe them because I've heard them ever since I was knee-high being bellowed by drunk rednecks who echoed them from politicians who fed them lines to buy their votes with cheap plays to their bigotry.

You object to the de facto version of multiculturalism, but the de facto version of colorblindness would be WASP hegemony (despite Ish's assurances to the contrary). Racial politics is ugly (look at the New Orleans election yesterday as example #1), but it's less ugly than the alternatives.

 

[Ishmael]

They're bringing back segregation to Omaha, and that's supposed to be a "good" thing!

The fact of the matter is that the districts were already segregated. People voted with their mortgages. And there was no busing. Omaha has just made the districts that already existed financially autonomous.

I agree that it's counter intuitive and probably counter productive. I see the whole affair as a two-edged sword. On the plus side you'll have smaller districts with less administrative overhead, more beholding to the community, and less beholding to the NEA. On the minus side is the Balkanization potential you refer to.

I'm inclined to let the experiment go forward just to see how the districts spend their monies.

Ishmael

 

[Cap’n AMatrixca]

Blacks and Chinese discriminate among themselves based upon darkness.

But those of us whom have made it and actualy run things don't see ourselves that way.

Multiculturalism over-panders to the poor because it requires victims to have validity hence those people are poor based on skin color when, in reality, those people are poor and stupid because they simply don't have to deal with winter...

In the big cities, we set them up nicely too, where they languish and vegetate because necessity is the true mother of invention; if most tribal voters had to scramble for their existance they would dissassociate with a losing tribe faster than the airing of a Survivor episode...

But we work Bureaucracal Monuments of Legislation designed to make loyalty to the tribe the most important factor in getting your hand-out. This is seemingly the Liberal definition of diversity, keeping all the fish in the proper pond.