Mosque at Ground Zero

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No, I won't, although I didn't realize JBJ didn't make it up. Greg Gutfield is a comedian, and I don't believe this is a serious proposal. I bet it would be an embarassment to the Muslims running the culture center if they did it, and seerved booze as well as non-alcoholic beverages.

Of course you believed I made it up; SR71PLT leads you around by the nose.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
No, I won't, although I didn't realize JBJ didn't make it up. Greg Gutfield is a comedian, and I don't believe this is a serious proposal. I bet it would be an embarassment to the Muslims running the culture center if they did it, and seerved booze as well as non-alcoholic beverages.

Of course you believed I made it up; SR71PLT leads you around by the nose.

Yes, I did think you made it up. I didn't realize you didn't until the link to Greg Gutfield was pointed out.

 

[Dragonlipz]

The Obama administration has tagged the Imam behind the building of the Mosque at Ground Zero, as a representative of the United States to spread the word of, 'bridge building' between the Muslims and the Infidels to the Middle East,

Explain that please?

Amicus

edited to add: that particular Imam refuses to describe Hamas as a Terrorist Organization...add that to your rationalizations.

More Cluster Fox bullshit that you're spreading......but don't let the truth stop you from spewing nonsense....God Forbid!!!!!
This is a free country and I've defended your right (I'm a decorated combat vet) to spout all the anti-american propoganda you want......

 

[amicus]

Ummm I'm going to call BULLSHIT on most of what ami and other conservative pussies have been whining about. I'm an AMERICAN MUSLIM. I know what I want. Religious freedom.

Most of what you have said about Islam is complete BULLSHIT. Sharia law only applies to Muslims NOT non-Muslims; its kind of like claiming that Jews want to force kosher foods on you. My people never even had the Caliphate really because we had the Imamate; we don't care about secular power at all. And we've never really made a huge effort to convert our neighbors let alone the world because we've been a persecuted minority for most of our history!

I have no problem with a Mosque at ground zero because this is AMERICA! I support freedom of speech and private property. If you don't like it then DON'T PATRONIZE the Mosque. DO you know how many of the victims of 9-11 were Muslim? I mean American Muslims? Do you even know how many of us there are in this country?

You conservative fascists get your panties in a knot because we don't believe in Christianity. We don't care about your religion or status or culture. All we want is the respect to practice our own religion in peace. You already believe in God so why should I care about whether you are Muslim or not? Quite frankly you sound like a prick anyway but we don't believe people go to hell for following another faith. Unlike you.

America's demographics are changing. Deal with it. I've been a minority here for a long time. You WASPs will be too one day. Things change. It just means you'll loose a little status.[/QUOTE]

~~~

Well, at least we know where al_ussa's loyalties lie, and that is pertinent.

One would think, in rational terms, here in the 21st Century, that old religous conflicts would be resolved in the modern era; not so.

The bloody and continuing conflict between Muslim and Christian is as vile today as it was a thousand years ago and shows no signs of fading, as it should, into the dark ages of human history.

Being an atheist, I have no truck with any religion, but even a modest student will recognize that Christianity, since the Protestant upheaval, has been forced to modify its' basic premises and adapt to the modern world.

Not so with Islam.

Until the advent of the petro dollar, Islam was content to live on past glories of conquest and conflict and remain camel jockeys and Fig Merchants, enjoy the Harems of the wealthy and let the faithful survive as they might.

But oil and world war two and the creation of the Jewish State of Israel, reinvigorated the centuries old conflict between Christians and Muslims and that remains the core of the conflict to this very day.

With acts of Islamic Terrorist violence evidenced in every part of the entire globe, al_ussa blithely expects obedience to his blasphemous interpretation of the Islamic intent for world domination? Gimme a fucking break!

A coalition of 40 western, Christian Nations, is involved in attempting to dampen the enthusiastic violence of multiple Jihad's hell bent to destroy what little world security is left and will not permit Islam to have any further nuclear capabilities outside Pakistan.

All out war between Christian and Islam is not a matter of if, but when, and it could be soon.

I am not the only one who has written or is writing a fictional prediction of how and when this conflict will break out; I hope you enjoy my speculative endeavor when it is published, although there is a high probability that it will happen before I finish.

Amicus...

 

[Huckleman2000]

Obama makes clear support for ground zero mosque

WASHINGTON — After skirting the controversy for weeks, President Barack Obama is weighing in forcefully on the mosque near ground zero, saying a nation built on religious freedom must allow it.

"As a citizen, and as president, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country," Obama told an intently listening crowd gathered at the White House Friday evening to observe the Islamic holy month of Ramadan.

"That includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances," he said. "This is America, and our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakable."

 

[amicus]

Just another example among many that this President is totally out of tune with the American public.

I doubt you can ignore the nationwide response to this insult to the nearly three thousand dead in the twin towers. They could put that Mosque anywhere but chose a place that would incite the revulsion that has erupted.

The claims of the Imam in charge of the project, a 'bridge builder', has accomplished just the opposite; the most virulent rejection of Islamic infiltration into American society thus far expressed.

It will not be built at that location and any attempt at construction will be destroyed.

Mark my words.

Amicus

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Americans never tolerate deviant religions, and such religions have been plentiful in our history. Most people on this thread would rather live beneath the boot of raghead fanatics than live next door to a Southern Baptist.

 

[jomar]

So, the country that was founded on religious freedom, the great melting pot, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free...are crying NIMBY.

 

[Boxlicker101]

So, the country that was founded on religious freedom, the great melting pot, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free...are crying NIMBY.

Not really. Many people see this cultural center as a monument being built to celebrate a victory over "the infidels." If it were planned for a mile or so away, nothing would be said, at least not by most people. The building being replaced was actually one of several damaged on 9-11.

It might not be built at all. Some workers might refuse to work on it, and others might be intimidated by protestors, and there may even be acts of vandalism committed if construction ever does get started.

I'm just mentioning some possibilities, not predicting or endorsing them.

 

[Pure]

property rights, anyone?

//It will not be built at that location and any attempt at construction will be destroyed.//

it's good that ami has come clean about all bs over 'property rights' and 'minimal gov't'. tough big gov't; majority religion. that's where it's at in ami-rica. oh, and violence against the non-conforming, where reason doesn't work.

 

[Pure]

note to box.

box Not really. Many people see this cultural center as a monument being built to celebrate a victory over "the infidels." If it were planned for a mile or so away, nothing would be said, at least not by most people.

ha! jon stewart did a brilliant satire, very recently, of this delusion: for distances of 1 mile, 10 miles, 100 miles, 800 miles [Wisconsin] and 3000 miles [california], he showed "no mosque here" rallies**.

the US here is at it Bill-of-Rights-hating best.

--
**ADDED: that is, actual recent rallies of Americans protesting the building of a mosque in their city.

 

[Boxlicker101]

box Not really. Many people see this cultural center as a monument being built to celebrate a victory over "the infidels." If it were planned for a mile or so away, nothing would be said, at least not by most people.

ha! jon stewart did a brilliant satire, very recently, of this delusion: for distances of 1 mile, 10 miles, 100 miles, 800 miles [Wisconsin] and 3000 miles [california], he showed "no mosque here" rallies.

the US here is at it Bill-of-Rights-hating best.

Jon Stewart is a comedian, and just because he says there would be demonstrations against a cultural center being built elsewhere, it doesn't mean much. I'm surprised you would even mention that on this thread, since it is of so little value in debate.

At the same time, there are enough Muslim haters in the US that some people would object to such a construction anywhere, but I doubt there would actually be any substantial demonstrations against it. Even in NY, the objection is the proximity to Ground Zero, not to the construction itself. If you watch any news program that shows the demonstrators, that will be what their picket signs say.

What do you think would happen if the Catholic Church wanted to build a massive cathedral in Riyadh or Tehran or other Muslim capital?

 

[squarejohn]

It's one thing to be tolerant of those with whom we disagree.

It is another thing to be a doormat.

There would be no mosque controversy if the virility of the US had not been eroded by decades of "political correctness." Indeed, the mass murders of 9/11 probably would not have occurred.

Political correctness, a doctrine conceived and perpetuated by diseased minds, is at the root of many of America's problems. Once you understand that, the solution to those problems becomes obvious. Direct action, not hand wringing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Even Obama says building the mosque near the ruins isnt wise though the ragheads have a right to do it. It needlessly pisses off a lot of people.

 

[cloudy]

It's one thing to be tolerant of those with whom we disagree.

It is another thing to be a doormat.

There would be no mosque controversy if the virility of the US had not been eroded by decades of "political correctness." Indeed, the mass murders of 9/11 probably would not have occurred.

Political correctness, a doctrine conceived and perpetuated by diseased minds, is at the root of many of America's problems. Once you understand that, the solution to those problems becomes obvious. Direct action, not hand wringing.

Translation: "I hate everyone who isn't white like me or protestant like me."

So sad, really, but I'm glad that people who think this way are quickly becoming extinct.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Translation: "I hate everyone who isn't white like me or protestant like me."

So sad, really, but I'm glad that people who think this way are quickly becoming extinct.

So how is that a problem? I mean, God made them all equally but only us whites evolved. We're still waiting for the Injun to show us his nifty tricks.

 

[Katyusha]

It's one thing to be tolerant of those with whom we disagree.

It is another thing to be a doormat.

There would be no mosque controversy if the virility of the US had not been eroded by decades of "political correctness." Indeed, the mass murders of 9/11 probably would not have occurred.

Political correctness, a doctrine conceived and perpetuated by diseased minds, is at the root of many of America's problems. Once you understand that, the solution to those problems becomes obvious. Direct action, not hand wringing.

So it's not political correctness that demands sensitivity to people's feelings about this? When it involves anything else on private property, people's feelings about it be damned, but when it's a mosque/cultural center near Ground Zero, suddenly the ideas of "minimal government interference" and the Bill of Rights go out the window and we must put feelings above the Bill of Rights? Under the First Amendment, we either subject ALL religions to the SAME restrictions, or we restrict NO religion. We do not make an exception because we disagree with and dislike a particular religion.

This building is a private building on private land, the way I understand it. You and others want to make an exception regarding government interference because it's Muslim, not Jewish or Christian or anything else. Is it insensitive to put it there? Sure. I wish they'd see that and move it somewhere else of their own accord. Can it be interpreted as an in-your-face gesture on the part of the Muslim community? I can see how it would be interpreted that way. If I lived in NYC I might feel the same way.

But the root of political correctness is avoiding offending a group of people, and THEN either making laws to that effect or skirting existing laws to that effect. If we were to espouse forbidding this establishment in its current location because it's insensitive to Americans in general and New Yorkers in specific, we'd be skirting one of the original laws of this land.

 

[Guest]

. . . .

 

[Boxlicker101]

So it's not political correctness that demands sensitivity to people's feelings about this? When it involves anything else on private property, people's feelings about it be damned, but when it's a mosque/cultural center near Ground Zero, suddenly the ideas of "minimal government interference" and the Bill of Rights go out the window and we must put feelings above the Bill of Rights? Under the First Amendment, we either subject ALL religions to the SAME restrictions, or we restrict NO religion. We do not make an exception because we disagree with and dislike a particular religion.

This building is a private building on private land, the way I understand it. You and others want to make an exception regarding government interference because it's Muslim, not Jewish or Christian or anything else. Is it insensitive to put it there? Sure. I wish they'd see that and move it somewhere else of their own accord. Can it be interpreted as an in-your-face gesture on the part of the Muslim community? I can see how it would be interpreted that way. If I lived in NYC I might feel the same way.

But the root of political correctness is avoiding offending a group of people, and THEN either making laws to that effect or skirting existing laws to that effect. If we were to espouse forbidding this establishment in its current location because it's insensitive to Americans in general and New Yorkers in specific, we'd be skirting one of the original laws of this land.

I believe it is generally accepted that the group of Muslims involved has a right to put the cultural center on the land they bought for that purpose. Nobody can seriously deny that, including me. What the complaints are about, especially in NYC is the location. If the Muslims involved had any sensitivity or actually cared about building bridges or encouraging good relationships among religions, they would know that and would not have decided to build in this particular place.

I realize the terrorists who hijacked the planes and crashed them into the twin towers were an extreme element, but their actions were supposedly done in the name of God, just as the moderate Muslims do their thing in the name of God.

 

[grey228]

Never mind the mosque. I want to see the Gay Bar that caters to Muslim men built at Ground Zero

http://www.examiner.com/populist-in...endly-gay-bar-near-ground-zero-mosque-w-video

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes noted that Americans have freedom of speech but they arent guaranteed their jobs after they express themselves at work.

So while the ragheads will experience no prior restraint building their mosque across from the World Trade Center ruins, the Constitution might not save them from a punched nose after they build it.

 

[Liar]

Jon Stewart is a comedian, and just because he says there would be demonstrations against a cultural center being built elsewhere, it doesn't mean much. I'm surprised you would even mention that on this thread, since it is of so little value in debate.

He didn't say there would be demonstrations against a cultural center being built elsewhere. He showed that there in fact are.

Comedian or not, that is fact.

 

[Pure]

Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes noted that Americans have freedom of speech but they arent guaranteed their jobs after they express themselves at work.

So while the ragheads will experience no prior restraint building their mosque across from the World Trade Center ruins, the Constitution might not save them from a punched nose after they build it.

legal reasoning, down in 'gator country.

 

[Huckleman2000]

[...]I'm surprised you would even mention that on this thread, since it is of so little value in debate.[...]
What do you think would happen if the Catholic Church wanted to build a massive cathedral in Riyadh or Tehran or other Muslim capital?

Actually, your last statement has no value in this debate. Or are you suggesting that the U.S. should base its system of governance on Islamic law, as Iran and Saudi Arabia do? Or that legal disputes should be settled on a tit-for-tat basis? It doesn't matter what officials in Tehran would do if Catholics wanted to build a massive cathedral there - this is the U.S., a country founded on the principles of religious tolerance and the separation of church and state.

Secondly, this isn't a cathedral - it's a community center, like thousands of YMCAs and Jewish Community Centers all over the country. The way you talk, one would think it's a giant middle finger with a star and crescent on top.

 

[Katyusha]

What do you think would happen if the Catholic Church wanted to build a massive cathedral in Riyadh or Tehran or other Muslim capital?

The problem with this comparison is that we have no laws that establish a religion here. We're not a Christian nation, or a Jewish nation, or a Hindu nation, or a Buddhist nation, OR a Muslim nation. Most Middle-Eastern countries have Islam as their established religion. That makes this question irrelevant.