Moral/ Ethical ?

[phoenix1105]

Let us assume for a moment that we are in one of the US states in which paying for sex is illegal. Now let us also assume, for the moment, that we have Person A who has a degenerative, terminal condition. Person A is receiving palliative care to make the pain of said condition manageable. Is it the right of the society in which the person lives to determine if Person A can trade cash for sex? Do Person A's rights as a citizen of the USA ( i.e. life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) supersede a State's right to declare paying for sex illegal within State borders? Also consider for a moment the disagreement among State's themselves as to the somewhat arbitrary label of prostitute as compared to escorts. To take it another step what is the difference between people selling their bodies on the street as compared to selling their bodies in an escorts office or hotel?

What fundamental truth of this nation says Nevada can legalize or non-criminalize and sex for money, while surrounding States criminalize such acts.

Not trying to stir up trouble, but the thread on assisted suicide got me thinking of State's vs Federal distribution of power. Any thoughts?

 

[SweetErika]

Now let us also assume, for the moment, that we have Person A who has a degenerative, terminal condition. Person A is receiving palliative care to make the pain of said condition manageable. Is it the right of the society in which the person lives to determine if Person A can trade cash for sex?

I'm sorry, but I totally don't get what this person's condition has to do with prostitution. Are you asserting prostitution or solicitation should be legal for those with terminal illnesses, or what?

Do Person A's rights as a citizen of the USA ( i.e. life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) supersede a State's right to declare paying for sex illegal within State borders?

Nope. Prostitution is a state issue for the most part, unless it deals with something (e.g. transporting people across state lines, some types of sex slavery, etc.) that falls under federal jurisdiction.

"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" doesn't mean Americans can do anything that makes them happy or feel free during their lives. It does mean Americans should have the freedom to pursue any lawful activity that supports their happiness. Therefore, if prostitution is legal, it falls under that part of the Constitution and everyone should have equal access to it (unless there's a law against parts of their prostitutory activities). See here for details.

Basically, if you as a citizen feel like anti-prostitution laws are interfering with your happiness or illegal, you're welcome (and perhaps obligated) to take the issue up with the representatives YOU elected. And/or vote for different representatives. And/or run for office yourself and work to change the laws you find offensive. Or you could just move to a place where prostitution is legal.

Also consider for a moment the disagreement among State's themselves as to the somewhat arbitrary label of prostitute as compared to escorts. To take it another step what is the difference between people selling their bodies on the street as compared to selling their bodies in an escorts office or hotel?

Prostitute vs. escort seems pretty clear to me. Technically, a hooker sells sex of some sort for money, whereas an escort sells their time/company for money. Of course most escorts don't stick to that and do end up getting paid for sex, but it seems like the laws are pretty clear on the escorting vs. prostitution issue.

There's little difference between a hooker on the street and one in a hotel room or private residence, but you have to remember that a prostitute that calls themselves an escort is still a prostitute. Under the eyes of the law, they are not escorts, they're prostitutes because they're trading sex for money.

What fundamental truth of this nation says Nevada can legalize or non-criminalize and sex for money, while surrounding States criminalize such acts.

It's that states' rights thingy that you seemed to be against above. There is no federal law against prostitution on the whole to the best of my knowledge. It's illegal in most states, counties and municipalities. In Nevada, heavily regulated brothels are legal in 8 out of the 16 counties - the other 8 counties have outlawed all forms of prostitution. In RI, prostitution is decriminalized, but brothels, pimping and streetwalking are illegal.

So essentially, if you want prostitution to be legal in your state, you have to take it up with your state representatives and officials. Or, again, move to one of the areas of NV where it's legal or RI.

To be abundantly clear, I'm not a legal expert of any kind and am the first to admit I don't know the full scope of the issue. I'm only speaking from my perspective, interpretation of how the system works and knowledge I've acquired from research (some, but not a lot).

That said, I don't have a problem with legalized, heavily regulated, taxed prostitution (or marijuana, etc.), personally. If it's done correctly, I think legalized prostitution could be good for our society and it's something states and citizens should take a very hard look at. If we actually had some regulations, we could raise revenue, improve public health and safety, stop wasting resources and really crack down on those who ARE doing harm. I'm sickened that there's so much exploitation and many crime victims fall through the cracks because prostitution is illegal, and I hope to see a very different picture in my lifetime.

But as long as prostitution is handled the way it is now (in most places), it's NOT a "victimless crime" as many like to claim. It can be, but it's often something people who have very few options are pushed into and an activity that attracts some of the worst abusers and most emotionally (and otherwise) vulnerable people.

 

[Cathleen]

Interesting thoughts. I'm not sure what role Person A having a painful condition matters unless sex is one of the things that helps manage the pain, like medical marijuana being used in California.

I know in Nevada there are places where prostitution is legal (can't recall the name of the infamous brothel). I don't know how they define it though, eg must take place in a brothel or the like, etc. States make those decisions and definitions and the federal alphabet soup only jumps in on certain conditions.

Seems to me the definition of prostitution is the heart of the matter rather than an individual's physical condition as it relates to prostitution. Just trying to imagine how that would play out makes me laugh, actually. I'm thinking of a scene in Field of Dreams at a PTA meeting about banning books, the fighting brings out the best and worst in some people. Lit would scare the living bejesus out of a lot of people -- a lot.



Sitting here in an elevated state of my chronic pain I sure as hell think some good old sex would make things more manageable this morning (and give me a good shot at the rest of the day). I gotta get me to the town hall I do.

 

[phoenix1105]

To be honest, Person A is just me. I am going in for major surgery soon, and the odds of me coming out of surgery alive and with the use of my legs is slim. Think of the movie Bucket List with Jack Nickelson and Morgan Freeman. I want to experience as much as I can before I go under the knife, so that I won't have any regrets. So in the context of my original question, I have a very limited time frame. I want to do as much as I can... right now I am using painkillers to get by. I think it is hypocritical that in some states a behaviour is legal, and 100 miles away it is illegal. I don't know, thats just how I see it... but what do I know

 

[Cathleen]

While I haven't seen Bucket List, yet, I am so sorry to hear about your situation. Limitations are tough and I hope you get the opportunity to find out how even tougher you are...

Wishing you the very best...and prayers to back that up.



Location, location, location...damned thing isn't it? I hope you don't mind a question, but what experience can a brothel, etc hold for you? Very personal I know so please don't feel like you need to indulge my curiosity.

I don't know as I'd label it hypocritical but it's definitely frustrating. Some states are just more liberal or conservative. Add also that there are some very old laws that are as goofy as it gets but the legislators never get around to abolishing.

 

[gimmie_your_load]

Prostitution

I really wish you all the best in your situation, and I hope you can find some solace, laws or not

Prostitution is a very interesting issue. There are two main reasons it is illegal. One is to to protect vulnerable women from sexual slavery, abuse, etc, and the other is "moral outrage". We can see this because in some places it is not the ACT of prostitution that is illegal, but merely the solicitation of prostitution that is illegal. So in those cases what we're really trying to do is prevent men from aquiring those services because it is viewed as "morally" wrong. Many time debates over this issue devolve into "slippery slope" discussions about livestock and public indecency. This is interesting, because in countries where the sex trade is legal, and regulated (Holland, Germany to name a few) the service is MUCH safer for all involved. Street walkers giving head in back alleys is uncommon because they dont HAVE to. Women are checked for STDs and provided with contraceptives. Heck, the government can even tax them! These countries have devolved into screaming hells, lacking all moral fiber, so there is no reason to assume it would happen in north america.

As for your situation, I would say there is no inherent "moral" issue in paying for sexual pleasure. I dont personally beleive in any set code of "morals". So the question becomes is it ethical? Well that depends who you call. The big distinction between most escort services and prostitutes is that the escorts are paid better, and are often in the industry by choice rather than forced by circumstance. There would be an ethical issue if you were paying an underage girl, a coke addict, or a woman possibly living in sexual slavery. If you hire an escort company or repute, and make sure you get a nice, upstanding american girl... happy fucking

 

[phoenix1105]

Let me say first off that I appreciate the concern and prayers from everyone. As to your question about what experience I am looking for, I have no problem answering. The most basic answer is that I have only had one partner in my life, and I want to feel pleasure again. I know it won't be the same, but I think it is the closest I can get. I want to experience a lot more things before I go for surgery. From the outside looking in at my life, it is pretty easy to see that I am on a downward spiral of self destruction. My quality of life is hell, and the chances that the docs can repair the damage is slim.

I don't know if that answers your question or not. To be honest I really don't have anyone in real life to talk to about it, so if anyone has a comment or whatever, it is welcomed.

While I haven't seen Bucket List, yet, I am so sorry to hear about your situation. Limitations are tough and I hope you get the opportunity to find out how even tougher you are...

Wishing you the very best...and prayers to back that up.



Location, location, location...damned thing isn't it? I hope you don't mind a question, but what experience can a brothel, etc hold for you? Very personal I know so please don't feel like you need to indulge my curiosity.

I don't know as I'd label it hypocritical but it's definitely frustrating. Some states are just more liberal or conservative. Add also that there are some very old laws that are as goofy as it gets but the legislators never get around to abolishing.

 

[working_girl]

I don't really get the mindset that prostitutes/escorts are all victims deserving of pity while all clients are evil exploitative perverts. It makes no sense to say that girls should have the right to escort if they want to and need protection, legalization and support while vilifying their client base. If escorting should be brought within the law then so should the act of hiring an escort. Here in the UK, new laws have been passed recently that make it illegal to knowingly buy sex from a trafficked/unwilling girl so they are trying to clamp down on the seedier side of the industry without targeting more reputable escorts/agencies but there's a long way to go. It's also not an offence for an escort to work independently from a flat but if there are more than 2 girls it's classed as an illegal brothel. If it is run by a guy then he is committing the offence of 'living off the proceeds of prostitution' but escorts/prostitutes themselves are not charged with this offence.

Personally, I'm not really fussed about legalization. It will not prevent people trafficking or sever the link between drugs and prostitution. It will not prevent amoral bastards from paying next to nothing to have unprotected sex and/or abuse a trafficked, drugged up, unwilling foreigner or underage sex slave. People who run brothels like that are not going to trot up to their town hall and register their girls. All it will achieve is to tax clean, reputable escorts who really require no regulation anyway. UK PM Gordon Brown can rim my asshole before I start paying him whore taxes. He makes more than enough from my pussy as it is because I declare my income as an 'exotic dancer' to avoid falling foul of the Inland Revenue.

I think that governments have always fought a losing battle against prostitution and that it would be a step forwards for them to accept that it will always exist and that the moral dilemma of paying for sex is not state business. Stamping out trafficking, sex slavery and the drug use in the industry are the issues that the state should be addressing. Moral dilemmas that cause injury to no-one should not be the government's business.