Minutemen Project your thoughts

[Ham Murabi]

I think it's a great idea - those guys down there tripping over each other and setting off the sensors. This way they'll really screw up the Border Patrol and the INS, more immigrants will get in and those immigrants will be able to share in our success - if just a little.

So if they are down there tripping these sophisticated sensors that the border patrol responds to, how is it possible this is the No. 1 spot to cross the border illegally?
The border patrol may act pissed, but the fact is even with those sensors thousands of illegals were pouring into the country every month. Maybe all the border patrol did with the sensors was keep track of the numbers of illegal entries, because they sure weren't getting the majority of them.

In times past I would think the Minutemen would be hailed as selfless volunteers. What they are doing now, however, is showing just how inept the government is at controlling the border.

As for calling the Minutemen racists, I'd want to have a better handle on the ethnic makeup of the group before offering an opinion. I've read that the Minutemen include all races.

I also think it's pretty simple-minded to believe Mexican-Americans would automatically embrace undocumented residents from south of the border.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Minutemen link 1

Minuteman link 2

What does everyone think of these Minutemen?

I personally believe they are racist who do not want anyone but Europeans in the US. It is also an insult that they are using the term Minutemen. The true Minutemen of the American Revolution, fought to allow a country for all people to find freedom and success.(With a few expectations)

One has to ask ones self: are there millions of Europeans trying to get into the country illegally?

 

[NonSexWithHer]

One has to ask ones self: are there millions of Europeans trying to get into the country illegally?

One has to ask one self: Are there millions of Americans picking your oranges and peaches right now?

 

[linuxgeek]

One has to ask one self: Are there millions of Americans picking your oranges and peaches right now?

The IT people who have had their positions outsourced have to do something...

 

[bill-pix-trade]

One has to ask one self: Are there millions of Americans picking your oranges and peaches right now?

We need to do a better job of getting people here to work legally. Paying taxes, and becoming part of the system. Mexico immigration is suck an issue draining services that they do not contribute to. Back in the old days, like with my family, adults came here to work, and sent for their families when they were able to support them. We need to find a way to make this work for the Mexicans that want to be here.

Why should I or any other tax payer support criminals? If they are here illegally they are criminals.

My point is to have an avenue to get them here legally and responsibly. We need then and they need us.

 

[NonSexWithHer]

The IT people who have had their positions outsourced have to do something...

If they did we still couldn't close the borders.

 

[linuxgeek]

If they did we still couldn't close the borders.

If they didn't have the easy way out of the illegals they can underpay and overwork, someone would just comeup with a machine which will do the job.

 

[NonSexWithHer]

We need to do a better job of getting people here to work legally. Paying taxes, and becoming part of the system. Mexico immigration is suck an issue draining services that they do not contribute to. Back in the old days, like with my family, adults came here to work, and sent for their families when they were able to support them. We need to find a way to make this work for the Mexicans that want to be here.

Why should I or any other tax payer support criminals? If they are here illegally they are criminals.

My point is to have an avenue to get them here legally and responsibly. We need then and they need us.

Criminal, illegal, blah blah semantics.

Even President Bush agrees and knows that we need them more than they need us.

Putting up a Great Wall of Mexico would be a great lesson in my opinion. When all of NY's windows go unwashed and Florida's crops go unpicked we'll understand what they mean to our economy. BTW, their economic contributions as illegals FAAAR outweigh any stress they cause the American taxpayer.

 

[alphanav1]

I think you're a fucking idiot. You obviously don't have a clue as to what it's all about.

Ishmael

You could enlighten me. Is that asking too much?

You should not even posted that. I asked for your thoughts on these Minutemen, and you insult me. I don’t really care if you do, I just want other peoples opinions on this matter and I can weed through the garbage in the end.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Criminal, illegal, blah blah semantics.

Even President Bush agrees and knows that we need them more than they need us.

Putting up a Great Wall of Mexico would be a great lesson in my opinion. When all of NY's windows go unwashed and Florida's crops go unpicked we'll understand what they mean to our economy. BTW, their economic contributions as illegals FAAAR outweigh any stress they cause the American taxpayer.

An you are very wrong about "BTW, their economic contributions as illegals FAAAR outweigh any stress they cause the American taxpayer". But what ever. I don't fell like being political. These arguments never go any where and people just get pissed. So make your counter point. I agree to disagree, and I will leave it at that.

 

[Ham Murabi]

Criminal, illegal, blah blah semantics.

Even President Bush agrees and knows that we need them more than they need us.

Putting up a Great Wall of Mexico would be a great lesson in my opinion. When all of NY's windows go unwashed and Florida's crops go unpicked we'll understand what they mean to our economy. BTW, their economic contributions as illegals FAAAR outweigh any stress they cause the American taxpayer.

If there is a shortage of workers willing to work for that pay, then pay will rise. Happens all the time.

 

[alphanav1]

We need to do a better job of getting people here to work legally. Paying taxes, and becoming part of the system. Mexico immigration is suck an issue draining services that they do not contribute to. Back in the old days, like with my family, adults came here to work, and sent for their families when they were able to support them. We need to find a way to make this work for the Mexicans that want to be here.

Why should I or any other tax payer support criminals? If they are here illegally they are criminals.

My point is to have an avenue to get them here legally and responsibly. We need then and they need us.

Bill I totally agree with you.

Yes, they are illegally entering the US, but there is a reason they do so. They are crossing an area that is extremely dangerous. When the mass of Europeans came over in the 1850s – 1930s they were legal immigrants, now it is different. I do not know why immigration laws are so tough now, but they need to be relaxed. Then you would see a decrease in illegal immigration.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Bill I totally agree with you.

Yes, they are illegally entering the US, but there is a reason they do so. They are crossing an area that is extremely dangerous. When the mass of Europeans came over in the 1850s – 1930s they were legal immigrants, now it is different. I do not know why immigration laws are so tough now, but they need to be relaxed. Then you would see a decrease in illegal immigration.

I would be for that, especially if they relaxed them for Mexicans. I want the hard working people here.

 

[NonSexWithHer]

An you are very wrong about "BTW, their economic contributions as illegals FAAAR outweigh any stress they cause the American taxpayer". But what ever. I don't fell like being political. These arguments never go any where and people just get pissed. So make your counter point. I agree to disagree, and I will leave it at that.

Don't be political about a non-political issue then.

I'm a real Republican but I'm pragmatic enough to know that when I can pay Pedro to work his ass off for $50 a day, no headaches, hassles or paperwork, rather than pay Pete a living wage with rights and admin costs, I'm coming out far ahead.

So what if a sliver of my tax dollar go to paying for Pedro's health care at a shitty clinic? Beats the hell out of dealing with Blue Cross HMO.

 

[alphanav1]

Another link

 

[Ishmael]

You could enlighten me. Is that asking too much?

You should not even posted that. I asked for your thoughts on these Minutemen, and you insult me. I don’t really care if you do, I just want other peoples opinions on this matter and I can weed through the garbage in the end.

There is no enlightenment possible for fucking idiots. You became a fucking idiot the moment you typed the word "racist." The use of that word excludes you from any rational debate and is an iron clad indication that you are incapable of rational thought.

Others here may attempt to illuminate the utter idiocy of your comments in a more tactful manner. They may even believe that you are capable of rational thought.

I'm under no such illusion and have no intention of wasting any more time than I already have.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

The answer to the problem is simple.

1. Seal the border.

2. Round up every illegal and ship them out of the country. This includes severe fines and criminal prosecution of employers that violate current immigration policy. The withdrawal to access to public services for all illegals should also be part of this process.

3. While 1 and 2 are being taken care of, come up with a rational immigration policy. That policy might include work permits.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

So if they are down there tripping these sophisticated sensors that the border patrol responds to, how is it possible this is the No. 1 spot to cross the border illegally?
The border patrol may act pissed, but the fact is even with those sensors thousands of illegals were pouring into the country every month. Maybe all the border patrol did with the sensors was keep track of the numbers of illegal entries, because they sure weren't getting the majority of them.

In times past I would think the Minutemen would be hailed as selfless volunteers. What they are doing now, however, is showing just how inept the government is at controlling the border.

As for calling the Minutemen racists, I'd want to have a better handle on the ethnic makeup of the group before offering an opinion. I've read that the Minutemen include all races.

I also think it's pretty simple-minded to believe Mexican-Americans would automatically embrace undocumented residents from south of the border.

The "sensor tripping" is the red herring that the Border Patrol management is putting out. The other side of the coin is that the line agents are tickled pink about the Minute Men doing what they're doing. They appreciate the help and feel that for once they're finally being allowed to do their job.

Ishmael

 

[linuxgeek]

2. Round up every illegal and ship them out of the country. This includes severe fines and criminal prosecution of employers that violate current immigration policy. The withdrawal to access to public services for all illegals should also be part of this process.


Ishmael

The fact that we will give illegals access to public services just helps draw them across the border. If they are going to enter illegaly, they deserve nothing from the public system.

There are plenty of sob stories out there because someone or his or her family is discovered to be illegals and public services are withdrawn. I have a hard time feeling sorry for them when they could not be bothered to take the time and effort to request legal immigration.

The fact that the government won't do anything substantial to deal with the flow of illegals over the board is one of the reasons I like a national sales tax. If we are going to keep giving them access to public services, then they should have to pony up some of the funds for them.

I like the 'Great Wall of Mexico" idea. .. just have to make sure we put the barrier underground as well as above ground since they have proven they like being cave diggers.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Don't be political about a non-political issue then.

I'm a real Republican but I'm pragmatic enough to know that when I can pay Pedro to work his ass off for $50 a day, no headaches, hassles or paperwork, rather than pay Pete a living wage with rights and admin costs, I'm coming out far ahead.

So what if a sliver of my tax dollar go to paying for Pedro's health care at a shitty clinic? Beats the hell out of dealing with Blue Cross HMO.

So what you are saying is lets fuck the Mexicans so we can have cheap fruit, and the hell with everyone else?

 

[linuxgeek]

So what you are saying is lets fuck the Mexicans so we can have cheap fruit, and the hell with everyone else?

Don't know about the rest of the country, but fruit isn't all that cheap in FL. some of that is due to rising transport costs passed on because of our wonderful gas prices.

 

[bill-pix-trade]

Don't know about the rest of the country, but fruit isn't all that cheap in FL. some of that is due to rising transport costs passed on because of our wonderful gas prices.

I think most of it is coming from the west coast or South America

 

[Le Jacquelope]

Don't be political about a non-political issue then.

I'm a real Republican but I'm pragmatic enough to know that when I can pay Pedro to work his ass off for $50 a day, no headaches, hassles or paperwork, rather than pay Pete a living wage with rights and admin costs, I'm coming out far ahead.

So what if a sliver of my tax dollar go to paying for Pedro's health care at a shitty clinic? Beats the hell out of dealing with Blue Cross HMO.

And a lot of people would love to steal your products and get them for free.
But you wouldn't like that, and you'd want that to be illegal, wouldn't you?
But yet you'd be fine with getting labor for free, or close to it...

 

[Le Jacquelope]

I think you're a fucking idiot. You obviously don't have a clue as to what it's all about.

Ishmael

Assmeal called someone an idiot. Take a sip, everyone...

 

[Ishmael]

The fact that we will give illegals access to public services just helps draw them across the border. If they are going to enter illegaly, they deserve nothing from the public system.

There are plenty of sob stories out there because someone or his or her family is discovered to be illegals and public services are withdrawn. I have a hard time feeling sorry for them when they could not be bothered to take the time and effort to request legal immigration.

The fact that the government won't do anything substantial to deal with the flow of illegals over the board is one of the reasons I like a national sales tax. If we are going to keep giving them access to public services, then they should have to pony up some of the funds for them.

I like the 'Great Wall of Mexico" idea. .. just have to make sure we put the barrier underground as well as above ground since they have proven they like being cave diggers.

Starting with the last first. It is a Mexican problem and they have to solve it, not us. Mexico is a rich and beautiful country. There is no reason that it shouldn't be at parity economically with Canada and the US except for the government and it's policies. By encouraging the stream of illegals to cross the border to the US they are attempting to "off load" their problems on us, and the American taxpayer. In the process they have created a parasitic economy within their own country that is eventually going to collapse. There is no reason we should be dragged down with them.

Righto on the NST. At least there would be some offset of the public expenditures. I'd prefer to solve the problem altogether though.

The "Great Wall of Mexico" has a ring to it linux. Hell, pay them to build it. The Mexicans are among the worlds great stone masons. Beautiful workmanship married to poetic justice. What more could you ask for?

The whole idea behind the Minute Men project was/is to call attention to the fact that the government isn't doing anything about the problem. The fact that the government won't do anything about the borders makes a mockery of all the other efforts regarding Homeland Security. If the government isn't concered about the borders or illegal aliens why in the world should they expect the general populace to take any of the other measure seriously?

You're also correct about the "sob stories." Everyone has their story. Life is hard and when you were born you didn't come with a warranty taped on your ass. There is no national obligation on our part to change their lives for them. I do appreciate the fact that they are trying to change their lives and I do appreciate the fact that many are hardworking individuals. However, I do NOT appreciate the fact that they have chosen as their first step towards a better life the commission of a criminal act.

I think there should be a "guest worker" status available for many. Vet them and track them.

Throwing in some more bizarre logic that's been applied to this subject. The State of California issues drivers liscenses to illegals. There was an effort to eliminate this from the law recently. One of the arguments used by the Libs to continue this was the painting of the picture of slaughter on the highways due to drivers on the road without a license. Obtaining a drivers license damn near anywhere in this country is a joke. Neither the written test nor the sham of a driving test are any test of driving skills. The presumption that someone driving without a license is any less skilled than a licensed driver is an assumption built on logical quicksand. If you want to collect the bucks from the testing etc. then issue them an "illegal alien" license and DON'T register them to vote (remember? Motor Voter).

Ishmael