Messiah Complex (or: a Messiah by any other name...)

[3113]

As we've been talking a bit about names lately....This was supposed to be a simple paternity suit and look what happened? from here:

This was the little boy whose mother, Jaleesa Martin, 22, took the father, Jawaan P. McCullough, 40, to family court to establish paternity and to set child support. The unmarried pair also had a quarrel about the boy's last name. Although the father had wanted to name the baby Jawaan P. McCullough Jr., by the end of the Aug. 8 hearing, according to the judge, he no longer objected to calling the boy Messiah Deshawn. But he wanted the boy to bear his surname.

Nevertheless, the judge decided to give the baby a total name makeover.

"It is not in this child's best interest to keep the first name 'Messiah,'" Magistrate Lu Ann Ballew wrote in a breathtaking display of authoritarian gall. "'Messiah' means Savior, Deliverer, the One who will restore God's Kingdom. 'Messiah' is a title that is held by only Jesus Christ."

The name would impose an "undue burden on him that as a human being he cannot fulfill," she wrote. (Like, how would she know that?)

Furthermore, she noted, the boy's home of Cocke County, Tenn., has a "large Christian population" as evidenced by its "many churches of the Christian faith."

"Therefore," she concluded, "it is highly likely that he will offend many Cocke County citizens by calling himself 'Messiah.'"

Judge re-named baby "Martin."

Let that be a lesson to you, children. Settle these things out of court or you may end up back in court fighting the judge!

Then again, maybe the Judge has a point. I mean, even the Virgin Mary didn't call Jesus "Messiah" and she, presumably, knew for a fact that he was a Messiah

 

[sr71plt]

We've already talked about this one too.

I think "authoritarian gall" covers it.

 

[PennLady]

As we've been talking a bit about names lately....This was supposed to be a simple paternity suit and look what happened? from here:

Judge re-named baby "Martin."

Let that be a lesson to you, children. Settle these things out of court or you may end up back in court fighting the judge!

Then again, maybe the Judge has a point. I mean, even the Virgin Mary didn't call Jesus "Messiah" and she, presumably, knew for a fact that he was a Messiah

According to the story I knew -- and I'm not going to look it up right now -- Mary was told that she would name the child "Emmanuel," which means, "God with us." Guess she didn't listen.

I think parents should give their kids names that won't give them problems, but I also think the judge should have left this alone.

 

[PennLady]

Also just found this:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20130815_ap_85f36cc8515f4f958b28680179d52c51.html

A non-profit group has filed a complaint against the judge in this case.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

According to the story I knew -- and I'm not going to look it up right now -- Mary was told that she would name the child "Emmanuel," which means, "God with us." Guess she didn't listen.

I think parents should give their kids names that won't give them problems, but I also think the judge should have left this alone.

So she called him "Hey Zeus" who was god of all according to the Greeks.

 

[lovecraft68]

According to the story I knew -- and I'm not going to look it up right now -- Mary was told that she would name the child "Emmanuel," which means, "God with us." Guess she didn't listen.

I think parents should give their kids names that won't give them problems, but I also think the judge should have left this alone.

Maybe "Jesus" was the name of the real father.

Mary is the smartest woman in history. Knocked up back in the day when they would stone a woman for that and she makes up a story it was an immaculate conception

Pure genius!

Now of course all the Christians believe this, but when someone tells about how Apollo was born straight from Zeus's head then that's just a fairy tale.

I love those analogies.

Sin? Pandora opened a box she was not supposed to right? No, don't be a silly pagan!

Sin came from Adam eating an apple he was not supposed to!

I certainly don't believe it, but credit where it is due, the bible is one fine piece of mythology.

 

[CDWilder]

I need to grow extra hands to facepalm this appropriately.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://www.johndominiccrossan.com/Excavating Jesus Ed1.htm

You wont understand a word of it but the author exposes all kinds of truths and nonsense about Jesus and Jews.

 

[PennLady]

Now of course all the Christians believe this, but when someone tells about how Apollo was born straight from Zeus's head then that's just a fairy tale.

Actually, no, not all Christians believe this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immaculate_Conception#Other_churches

I could be wrong, but my mom was Episcopalian and I thought one of the differences there was that they did not hold to the belief/doctrine of the Immaculate Conception.

Let's be honest though; since women give birth, it's less of a stretch to believe that Mary got pregnant via God and had his son than that Athena -- not Apollo -- sprang fully formed from Zeus's head. Not saying I believe it, although it was what I was taught. Just noting that one is less of a stretch than the other.

Sin came from Adam eating an apple he was not supposed to!

I certainly don't believe it, but credit where it is due, the bible is one fine piece of mythology.

Sin wasn't eating the apple -- it was the act of disobeying God. The form it took (and I do believe this is a myth) was the act of eating an apple. Could have been anything, but there you go.

 

[sr71plt]

I always laugh at what some folks claim all Christians believe.

 

[StrangeLife]

Sin wasn't eating the apple -- it was the act of disobeying God. The form it took (and I do believe this is a myth) was the act of eating an apple. Could have been anything, but there you go.

And more specifically it was eating of the tree of knowledge. In other words acquiring knowledge is a sin. Even as a kid that fact never failed to amuse me when they taught it in school...

 

[PennLady]

And more specifically it was eating of the tree of knowledge. In other words acquiring knowledge is a sin. Even as a kid that fact never failed to amuse me when they taught it in school...

Yeah, it does make you scratch your head when you take a minute and think. I'm currently reading "The Salmon of Doubt," a collection of essays, articles, etc., by Douglas Adams and there's a great bit in there, an interview with American Atheist magazine where Adams talks about things like this.

Ah, here it is: http://www.nichirenbuddhist.org/Religion/Atheists/DouglasAdams/Interview-American-Atheists.html

 

[R. Richard]

Sin came from Adam eating an apple he was not supposed to!

Eve, not Adam ate the apple.

 

[PennLady]

Eve, not Adam ate the apple.

Eve ate the apple first, and then Adam ate as well, and hence they were banished from the garden.

 

[sr71plt]

Not that the Bible says it was an apple. ("the fruit of the tree")

 

[TE999]

I always figured that 'eating the apple' was a euphemisim for 'enjoying fucking' and we all know good Christians only fuck to procreate and don't enjoy it. Right?

 

[sr71plt]

I always figured that 'eating the apple' was a euphemisim for 'enjoying fucking' and we all know good Christians only fuck to procreate and don't enjoy it. Right?

Uh, no. As I said, I laugh about what you guys make up about Christians. It's almost like you're scared of us.

 

[TE999]

Uh, no. As I said, I laugh about what you guys make up about Christians. It's almost like you're scared of us.

Scared, no. Amused, yes. That was a little sarcasm there, BTW. I was brought up Catholic until I was able to escape and think for myself. Now I'm an agnostic. Organized religion makes me itch.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm not real fond of the institutional church either. But I'm less fond of demonizing this and that--especially rather than trying to understand any of it. It's not like the Christian "thing" is a monolithic devil. If it was, there'd be a whole lot of posters to this Web site who would be in a whole lot of hurt.

 

[3113]

And more specifically it was eating of the tree of knowledge. In other words acquiring knowledge is a sin. Even as a kid that fact never failed to amuse me when they taught it in school...

Yeah, it does make you scratch your head when you take a minute and think.

Don't see why. We pass on knowledge because Eve/Adam ate the fruit, got it and there's no giving it back, right? All the bible says is that this state of "knowing" means Eve/Adam disobeyed god, and so got kicked out of Eden.

Makes perfect sense as a metaphor. "Ignorance is bliss" right? So knowledge is not. Knowledge "punishes" us with unhappiness.

 

[SecondCircle]

Not that I think Christians still hold to every single thing written in the bible as completely literal, but I must say that having read it, it really is quite a stretch to believe anything that they say went on.

I have to agree with the mythology thing here. God impregnating a woman is just as much a stretch to me as anything else in any mythology. Same with the ridiculously long life spans of most of the men in the old testament (actually its a long time before it mentions a female being born) the great flood that only happened a few thousand years ago, oh yeah that 4000-6000 year old world thing, and on and on and on.

But none of that is really the big problem for me. See, the most common form of Christian is ignorant of quite a few things about their own religion and what evil Mr. Science says. Ignorant meaning not informed of course. But they zealously throw their entire life into the belief, and thus can be swayed to believe just about anything on the grounds of morality.

No one really stops to question anything the bible says rationally. Because when you do this, it's considered as the devil working in you. So its shunned.

That's the main thing I don't really like.

 

[sr71plt]

No, the most common form of Christianity now is to ignore all that claptrap and go with the tenants of the New Testament teachings of how people should treat each other. They chose to do it through Christian churches because that's the largest and most organized group--giving buy-in options and a large sliding scale in how much of the rest of it you really want to swallow--that is actually active in social services. The preponderance of atheists and agnostics "got theirs" and that's good nuff for them. It's not the agnostics and atheists--or government--for instance, that are keeping the homeless fed and sheltered over the winter. It's the churches. Most of those showing up in Haiti periodically and on the coasts for hurricane damage are the organized churches. Go take a look at the sponsorship of charity and service organizations (and while there, do, by all means, look at the percentage of the money they collect that actually go to the relief they're promoting).

 

[TE999]

I'm not real fond of the institutional church either. But I'm less fond of demonizing this and that--especially rather than trying to understand any of it. It's not like the Christian "thing" is a monolithic devil. If it was, there'd be a whole lot of posters to this Web site who would be in a whole lot of hurt.

I somewhat view religions as a coping mechanism with the vicissitudes of life in general. Much as the earlier Polytheistic religions attributed the natural phenomena like thunder and winter and drought to gods, modern monotheistic religions attribute everything that befalls us to 'God's will' or the like. I figure whatever eases your mind and brings you comfort, go for it.

 

[StrangeLife]

Don't see why. We pass on knowledge because Eve/Adam ate the fruit, got it and there's no giving it back, right? All the bible says is that this state of "knowing" means Eve/Adam disobeyed god, and so got kicked out of Eden.

Makes perfect sense as a metaphor. "Ignorance is bliss" right? So knowledge is not. Knowledge "punishes" us with unhappiness.

However if you extrapolate from that, you're still saying that being a christian means "striving for ignorance."

I guess George W. really was a good christian...

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I was Christian till I read EXCAVATING JESUS. Much of the Gospels are bogus nonsense....like Freudian psychoanalysis. And if there really was a Jesus he was a socialist homo. So yuh gotta wonder how come 3113 and PL aren't nuns, if that be true. I don't do socialist homo messiahs. Got one in the White House, and anuther warming up.

If you dissect Christianity on one autopsy table, and dissect LIT on another, theyre the same thing.