Mental Health Court?

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Many states are creating mental health courts to force people to take medication and therapy. Virtually anyone can refer you to the court....spouse, partner, child, friend, employer...and you either do as the court orders or the cops arrest you and take you to the hospital. The court assigns a social worker to follow you around and talk to neighbors, friends, co-workers, etc.

 

[BlackShanglan]

That's a damned tough issue. The humane and liberty-loving part of me hates the idea of anyone being monitored and driven like this; the realistic side of me knows that there's really no liberty in the right to refuse to take your medications because they're just part of the evil Clone People's plot to make you one of them. It's easy to see the help this could be to people with really severe disorders that destroy their ability to understand themselves or their reality, but then there are the thousands of people who are in the borderlands who may suffer more harm than good. Certainly I worry about making the police the agents of this plan; I can't see much good coming from making this part of the criminal code.

I also suspect that they're going to run quickly into another issue: funding. The truth is that many of the problems they're trying to deal with are created by a lack of adequate facilities and programs for the mentally ill. If the money is there at all, why not use it to supply actual support and help rather than to drag the police and courts into an area that's at best tenuously to do with their work?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

BLACKIE

I was at a residential facility yesterday. I was greeted with a man raising hell about a glass of water. He wanted a drink and the house staff wouldnt let him get a glass of water. Their argument was "He'll pee the bed," I argued "It's 9 o'clock in the morning; he 's up and dressed."

House staff isnt generally the brightest and best trained, and staff annoys the hell out of residents because of inflexible rules. So residents dont enjoy where they live. But if they return home they wont get the supervision they require.

Protocol already exists to deal with crises. You take people into custody and transport them to the local psychiatric receiving hospital for evaluation. What mental health court does is assign a keeper to tattle on you when you violate the rules. It's incarceration without a fence.

 

[amicus]

I don't understand why this comes as a surprise to anyone.

The human mind and psyche can accommodate almost any aspect of reality that threatens survival and maintain balance and sanity.

But when humanity all around begins to eat their own babies, e.g. abortion, rejects the natural inclination to hetero existence, contracepts the birth process and advocates childless marriage and same sex couplings, is it any wonder the mind rebels?

When nearly 3,000 innocents are killed in a terrorist attack and half the population advocates turning the other cheek, does one doubt the conflict presented to the basic human drive to survive and protect ones own self interest?

In other words, when you reject all that is human and replace it with an Utopian egalitarianism, do you really wonder why it becomes a Soma induced tranquility?

Surely not.

Amicus...

 

[Misty_Morning]

Many states are creating mental health courts to force people to take medication and therapy. Virtually anyone can refer you to the court....spouse, partner, child, friend, employer...and you either do as the court orders or the cops arrest you and take you to the hospital. The court assigns a social worker to follow you around and talk to neighbors, friends, co-workers, etc.

Gonna have to say that I am against it MOST of the time. My ex was/is a physician and in my opinion he abused some folks in a way.

For example:

He was of the opinion that EVERY woman should be placed on anti-depressants.

He had a friend that he diagnosed as severely depressed.

He put his freinds wife on anti-depressents cuz he said his friend shouldn't have to listen to his wife while he was depressed.


That's fucked up.

Towards the end of our marriage he put me on them too. I started seeing a colleague of his who said it wasn't necessary. And my ex went ballistic and forbid me from seeing any MDs other than himself. After my divorce two ther physicians said I NEVER should have been put on them.

So....keep this mind....some docs are just fucked in the head.

Personally I believe that alot of MDs are too quick to prescibe meds when it's not needed.


As for other situations where multiples Mds diagnose a LEGITIMATE ailment, especially one that can potentially be harmful to the individual or others.....well, thats another story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

MISTY

I run into your situation all the time. I sarcasticially observe that psychiatrists diagnose everything as attention deficit disorder, because they can bill for it, and the symptoms are almost whatever you can imagine.

I see a kid, who's 6, and diagnosed with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, and ADHD. He takes all kinds of meds. But he's none of these things.

His parents are idgits, his teacher is an asshole, and his older brother fucked him in the ass. The kid is pissed off.

 

[Misty_Morning]

MISTY

I run into your situation all the time. I sarcasticially observe that psychiatrists diagnose everything as attention deficit disorder, because they can bill for it, and the symptoms are almost whatever you can imagine.

I see a kid, who's 6, and diagnosed with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, post traumatic stress disorder, and ADHD. He takes all kinds of meds. But he's none of these things.

His parents are idgits, his teacher is an asshole, and his older brother fucked him in the ass. The kid is pissed off.

Ya know, medications that "realign" brain chemistry are great...when they are used correctly.

But placing someone on those meds when it is not needed can fuck a person up.

I predict that we will see alot of documented cases where Meds have beed prescribed unnecessarily to the detrement of the patient...hell, we're already seeing it happen.

Just remember...a pill ain't always the best solution.

 

[Pure]

i generally agree, jbj, but people like that last school massacre person, are pretty dangerous. what steps do you suggest.?

 

[oggbashan]

Care in the Community in the UK

Care in the Community was first tried in Kent. It proved to be a much more effective way of treating people with mental health problems BUT...

1. It wasn't cheaper because it required more professionals in the community than were required in closed Mental Hospitals;

2. There had to be an emergency admission system to provide an instant and safe environment in case of a remission.

3. A history of taking prescribed medication regularly and an agreement to continue taking that medication were pre-conditions for moving the person to Care in the Community.

The problems have arisen because the politicians didn't want to hear point 1 and 2 so closed ALL the mental hospitals leaving no emergency provision and the failures frequently occur because of 3 and insufficient staff to confirm that the prescribed medication is maintained.

The failures can result in fatalities and injuries, usually to the patient but sometimes to family members or uninvolved members of the public.

The number of "ticking time-bombs" walking our streets is frightening and more likely to cause injury to strangers than all the paedophiles and rapists combined.

Og

PS. Part of the problem is Catch 22 - "I'm taking the medication. I feel rational and in control therefore I don't need to take the medication so I stop and then I'm not rational nor in control."

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

That's a damned tough issue. The humane and liberty-loving part of me hates the idea of anyone being monitored and driven like this; the realistic side of me knows that there's really no liberty in the right to refuse to take your medications because they're just part of the evil Clone People's plot to make you one of them. It's easy to see the help this could be to people with really severe disorders that destroy their ability to understand themselves or their reality, but then there are the thousands of people who are in the borderlands who may suffer more harm than good. Certainly I worry about making the police the agents of this plan; I can't see much good coming from making this part of the criminal code.

I also suspect that they're going to run quickly into another issue: funding. The truth is that many of the problems they're trying to deal with are created by a lack of adequate facilities and programs for the mentally ill. If the money is there at all, why not use it to supply actual support and help rather than to drag the police and courts into an area that's at best tenuously to do with their work?

Hard cases make bad law. This is probably a necessary evil.

I disagree with your analysis that the problem all comes down to funding. Instead, I think it's a product of the ambivalence of the population about the very issues raised in this thread. We're unwilling to use coercion even when the person is clearly a danger to himself and others. Governments spend tons on mental health, but it's the unwillingness to come to grips with this amibivalence that causes tragedies.

See this article, Free to Die in Iowa: Civil libertarians and the mentally ill.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

OG

You state the problem clearly. There arent enough people to manage the mentally ill because the pay is so low. A teacher or cop or nurse earns significantly more money for the same amount of education a social worker needs. Plus there isnt enough tax money to pay for the program to be effective. Turnover at some large social service agencies in my area is 70%; the state turnover was 42% when I worked for it. People could not cope with the large caseloads.

I'm taking a kid to the MD tomorrow because his fostercare social worker cannot do it. She's booked soild in court all day long. I wont even get paid to do it because the kid is a ward of the state. But they were frantic to find someone to take him to the doc. I'm it. The woman who manages this kid has 80 kids on her caseload.

 

[SeaCat]

Many states are creating mental health courts to force people to take medication and therapy. Virtually anyone can refer you to the court....spouse, partner, child, friend, employer...and you either do as the court orders or the cops arrest you and take you to the hospital. The court assigns a social worker to follow you around and talk to neighbors, friends, co-workers, etc.

Now this, if it follows the ideas you have posted here, is a truly scary idea. Too many ways to abuse this as it is stated.

Now I admit that there does have to be a way to force some people to take their medications. Those who have proven that they truly are a danger to themselves or to society if they stop taking their medications.

Yet as has been stated there are way too many people on mind or mood altering medications who have been put on them not for their treatment but for other peoples peace of mind or ease of care.

I would love to see the documentation behind one of these courts. Their limitations and their abilities.

Cat

 

[Boxlicker101]

Gonna have to say that I am against it MOST of the time. My ex was/is a physician and in my opinion he abused some folks in a way.

For example:

He was of the opinion that EVERY woman should be placed on anti-depressants.

He had a friend that he diagnosed as severely depressed.

He put his freinds wife on anti-depressents cuz he said his friend shouldn't have to listen to his wife while he was depressed.


That's fucked up.

Towards the end of our marriage he put me on them too. I started seeing a colleague of his who said it wasn't necessary. And my ex went ballistic and forbid me from seeing any MDs other than himself. After my divorce two ther physicians said I NEVER should have been put on them.

So....keep this mind....some docs are just fucked in the head.

Personally I believe that alot of MDs are too quick to prescibe meds when it's not needed.


As for other situations where multiples Mds diagnose a LEGITIMATE ailment, especially one that can potentially be harmful to the individual or others.....well, thats another story.

Are your friends familiar with the concept of a lawsuit for malpractice? Generally speaking, I don't like the idea, but sometimes it is justified, and this seems like one of those times.

ETA: For that matter, are you familiar with the concept?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

SEA CAT

In Florida the mechanism already exists to force people to be evaluated and treated if you are unable to consent. But what mental health court does is force treatment on people who refuse consent.

The problem is with the police.

The cops get stuck with derelicts and homeless and drunks and druggies who dont meet the criteria for involuntary treatment. These people are nuisances the cops have to feed, clothe, and repair if theyre ill. It costs a lot of money. The cops want to dump these people on mental health rather than jail them. Mental Health Court then sentences these folks to therapy rather than jail.

But the proposed laws will empower virtually anyone who knows you to file a complaint with the court.