Med students checking anesthesized women without their consent

[Guest]

It is a big scandal here.

Apparently some students complained, anonymously, that female patients in the women's ward were being used as "teaching tools" by groups of students. A newspaper followed it up:

- No consent whatsoever was asked from the women

- The students would enter the operating room only after she was anesthesized,and she never knew what had transpired

- The tests conducted were not necessarily connected to the surgery they women were about to undergo.


Now this bothers me a lot!

You want to bring a student to teach him the ropes in the surgery, fine. Bring three! But introduce them to me, and tell me what they are doing there!

But the thought of a female patient lying in a cold OR, her privates exposed, before a bunch of students, it is the stuff of nightmares.

Maybe the doctors would make jokes at her expense? Maybe not...


There was a huge talkback at the newspaper's website, and the students and doctors that responded only reinforce my feeling that these women's rights were never considered.

"How can we choose a speciality if I don't take advantage of every experience..."

I am so mad.


Thank God for spinal anesthesia.

Maharat

 

[TheeGoatPig]

Maybe the doctors would make jokes at her expense? Maybe not...

I have had two surgeries, and now I am wondering what kind of jokes were made about me. I wouldn't be mad to find out they were joking baout me, I just hope they were funny jokes.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

It actually happens quite a lot, and has for a long time.

And it's really, really, REALLY wrong.

 

[MercyMia]

It actually happens quite a lot, and has for a long time.

And it's really, really, REALLY wrong.

Ugh! Anesthetized women and male medical staff
I had an impacted wisdom tooth removed several years ago. I had general anesthesia administered. When I recovered, the first thing that entered my awareness was a tingly feeling in my breasts, as if they had been touched a lot. I was in the dentist's chair, alone in the room, so I have no idea if there was any basis to my gut feeling of being violated.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Ugh! Anesthetized women and male medical staff
I had an impacted wisdom tooth removed several years ago. I had general anesthesia administered. When I recovered, the first thing that entered my awareness was a tingly feeling in my breasts, as if they had been touched a lot. I was in the dentist's chair, alone in the room, so I have no idea if there was any basis to my gut feeling of being violated.

My neice is a surgical nurse. You should hear some of her stories about the things that are said and done to and around anesthetized patients. Makes me afraid to ever have surgery.

 

[Guest]

My neice is a surgical nurse. You should hear some of her stories about the things that are said and done to and around anesthetized patients. Makes me afraid to ever have surgery.

Being hospitalized was demeaning enough while I was awake!

Maharat

 

[Vermilion]

oh goodie. I feel so much better about my surgery in march

Can I sneak a hidden camera in with me???????

 

[oggbashan]

Apparently my language when recovering from anaesthesia was compatible with a Literotica writer but not the senior manager I was logged in as...

On another occasion the anaesthesic wasn't as effective as quickly as it should have been. The anaesthesist said "He's under now. You can move him to the theatre." I opened my eyes and replied. "Oh no I'm not. You'll have to wait."

They had to wait another quarter of an hour.

Og

 

[buxxxom]

I'm no stranger to the operating room myself. Ugh. Makes me wonder.

It should be a scandal, and those who made inappropriate remarks punished in some way. Loss of control is bad enough, knowing that smartass remarks are going to be made is another.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Actually, I kinda think the whole idea of being violated while under anesthesia is kinda HOT

 

[Selena_Kitt]

Actually, I kinda think the whole idea of being violated while under anesthesia is kinda HOT

As a fantasy, I agree... but in reality? Nuh uh.

 

[Liar]

It is a big scandal here.

Apparently some students complained, anonymously, that female patients in the women's ward were being used as "teaching tools" by groups of students. A newspaper followed it up:

- No consent whatsoever was asked from the women

- The students would enter the operating room only after she was anesthesized,and she never knew what had transpired

If it's your typical teaching hospital, university or other (there are local varieties of the practice), I would kind of expect to be observed by students, male or female, at all times of the treatment. Before, during and after surgery, unless I specify something else.

Or did they specifically single out female patients, although the medical issues that were the issue had nothing to do with gender? The it's some kind of sexual harassment going on.

- The tests conducted were not necessarily connected to the surgery they women were about to undergo.

Ok, now that is just wrong however you put it. And medically irresponsible, even if the tests are "harmless".

 

[glynndah]

Several years ago, my doctor asked if I minded if a student observed during my appointment. I consented. The kid walked in and I swear he was 12! I wondered if he was a junior high school student. The doctor introduced me and said the guy was a pharmacy student. So tell me. Why did a pharmacy student need to observe my Pap test?

 

[Pure]

i think the behavior is rationalized because of the hospital being a 'teaching hospital'.

probably somewhere in the fine print, of the surgery consent, is a clause allowing such 'examinations' for teaching purposes.

that said, it's not really 'informed consent.'

the better way to go is to pay some women to be professional patients, and have 'gyno' exams.

 

[Guest]

Of course the original report on the Internet has started a 200 post talk back. The "doctors" all sound the same:

- It has always been done

- Don't see what is the big deal

- What she can't feel can't hurt her (heard of GHB?)

- If we ask them they will not agree

- It is the only way to learn

Some of them sound absolutely entitled to the "learning" experience, which they are "owed" since the partient "chose" a teaching hospital.

Maharat

 

[Vermilion]

Of course the original report on the Internet has started a 200 post talk back. The "doctors" all sound the same:

- It has always been done

- Don't see what is the big deal

- What she can't feel can't hurt her (heard of GHB?)

- If we ask them they will not agree

- It is the only way to learn

Some of them sound absolutely entitled to the "learning" experience, which they are "owed" since the partient "chose" a teaching hospital.

Maharat

That sickens me. there are plently of people who would not mind a student observing or carrying out tests on them, but to do it without permission is abuse - legally as well as an abuse of trust.


<shakes head> I can't think of anything to say. I really can't
x
v

 

[oggbashan]

Several years ago, my doctor asked if I minded if a student observed during my appointment. I consented. The kid walked in and I swear he was 12! I wondered if he was a junior high school student. The doctor introduced me and said the guy was a pharmacy student. So tell me. Why did a pharmacy student need to observe my Pap test?

My youngest daughter, a qualified doctor for some years, still has to produce ID to buy a drink in the UK (and in the US).

When she was a medical student she was frequently mistaken for a young visitor to the hospital. When she became a house officer she became used to some of the patients wanting a "real" doctor. Now she's working in a unit that has long term patients she's accepted despite her apparent youth.

Og

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I've done pap smears and vaginal exams in an apprenticeship as a midwife. (Which I'm not... didn't finish) We actually practiced on each other as well, we student-midwives. That type of exam puts you in a very vulnerable position, and there's a lot of stuff going on that, as a practitioner, you are going to have to deal with when your patient is actually AWAKE. Your learning experience is severely impaired if you are examining an anestesized patient.

As for it being a teaching hospital - sometimes that's all insurance will pay for, and people are stuck with it because of that, not because they "chose" anything. But that's here in America...

 

[Vermilion]

Of course the original report on the Internet has started a 200 post talk back. The "doctors" all sound the same:

- It has always been done

- Don't see what is the big deal

- What she can't feel can't hurt her (heard of GHB?)

- If we ask them they will not agree

- It is the only way to learn

Some of them sound absolutely entitled to the "learning" experience, which they are "owed" since the partient "chose" a teaching hospital.

Maharat

Just spoke to my doctor friend. She said it's unethical, illegal and if any of the doctors are traced through their comments online then they will be thrown off the GMC (always assuming they're English, naturally she knows little about other countrys' medical practice). The practice itself would class as Common Assault apparently.

x
V

 

[starrkers]

Of course the original report on the Internet has started a 200 post talk back. The "doctors" all sound the same:

- It has always been done

- Don't see what is the big deal

- What she can't feel can't hurt her (heard of GHB?)

- If we ask them they will not agree

- It is the only way to learn

Some of them sound absolutely entitled to the "learning" experience, which they are "owed" since the partient "chose" a teaching hospital.

Maharat

"If we ask them they will not agree".
And that is seen as a perfectly legitimate reason to do it. Wonderful.

 

[Chantilyvamp]

"If we ask them they will not agree".

That line is exactly why I specify to many different people before I go in for my surgeries that students are not allowed. I have an extra scar from one such dipshit who took to much skin on a graft and decided to put the damn stuff back in his own design! I now sport a scar that looks sorta like this on the upper thigh...
________
l.....l......l
l.....l......l
l.....l......l
l............l
l_______l

If I'm awake I tend to be ok with some students but even then if the situation is stressful I decline. But to do exams that have nothing to do with the treatment without consent would send me over the bitch edge.

 

[3113]

Geeze! Are we back in the middle ages where doctors have to rob graves to get a look at a human body? This is the modern age and it's not only legal for doctors to cut open and examine cadavers, but also acceptable for them to use live patients as teaching tools (with their consent). Not to mention all the videos and other virtual reality teaching tools avalible. I mean, come on! Half-a-dozen shows on t.v. will show ME, a person sitting in their living room, a surgery and I'm not a doctor! There are shows on how to give a person fake breasts, turn a man into a woman, help a burn victim, separate siamese twins, use lasers and robotics to do heart surgery....it's all on television for anyone to see!

These stations got release forms to show a person's surgery to millions of viewers! Given this, how hard could it possibly be for doctors to get permission to have students examine patients--for the procedures they're in the hospital for, of course? I can't believe that it's so hard to find volunteer bodies to study that the doctors have to do it covertly and without anyone's permission.

Something fishy.

Also, as pointed out, if the patients were all women--and the doctors and students were all men--then it becomes mighty suspicious!

 

[Oblimo]

IThat type of exam puts you in a very vulnerable position, and there's a lot of stuff going on that, as a practitioner, you are going to have to deal with when your patient is actually AWAKE.

Great. Now I've got this image...a patient is up on the table and spread-eagled in the stirrups. The doctor is just standing there between her legs, holding a speculum and looking plaintive. "Are you sure you just can't go to sleep?"