Loving Wives is the only place hotwife stories are abused

[lovecraft68]

I've noticed this for awhile, but only in terms of pay market vs Lit, but noticed something yesterday that gave me a more clear vision of the fact LW is special in its hate mongering readership.

First, what I already knew.

In the pay market hot wife material in all its niches-including cuck humiliation-sell well and don't get a lot of nasty reviews. Now part of this is of course people have to pay for it, so unlike here where you could comment on unlimited stories, if you want to go up and down the Hotwife category on a pay site its costing you. Also, you need a bank account/paypal...some type of information to have an account and buy books. You create a handle, but if you're someone who likes to throw hate speech into comments, you're going to be a lot more careful that somewhere you're real info is attached.

But I don't think it would happen anyway, people pay for things that entertain them.

On Porn sites there is a ton of hot wife vids and also in every angle, from husband happily watching, to humiliation, etc...and if you read the comments they're all favorable, and that is a free site... however, at least on PH you now have to verify your account which is holding up a paper with your handle and you in the pic(not exactly accurate if someone is good with photo shop but something) so again maybe its the fact you have to have some info that can be tracked if you want to comment on how the 'wife' should be raped or abused" but again, I don't get the vibe there and think guys-and women-watch because they enjoy it. Also in the pay market-or a place like PH that makes money on traffic-they're not going to fill the site with content people have a negative reaction to.

So for a while I put this as a "Lit thing" the nature of a free site that allows anon and gives 0 fucks what content is in their comments unless its spam or something political they don't like(in other words scream rape and beat that whore all you want, but don't say "vote red or blue)

But last night I was drifting through the fetish forum which I haven't visited in some time and had one of those "How did I miss this' moments. Go take a look through...there is so much "Its so hot when my wife does another guy" threads its to the point I feel like a minority that my marriage is monogamous. They even have a pic thread with the focus being women's wedding rings visible while screwing another guy.

In the How to forum there's a lot of "How can I get my wife into a threesome" and most of those aren't about inviting in other women, its wanting to share their wife with another man. In the fetish category for stories, hot wife stories are much better received.

Now for a minute I'll shift over to You tube which we recently discovered a lot of channels are lifting BTB stories from here and putting them there on audio. However youtube has rules and either these guys are editing stories or taking the time to find ones with light sexual content and no over the top violence, so the stories aren't as nasty as they are here. The comments are never favorable to the woman(like here) but because YT policies comments there isn't any of the vitriolic spew that you find here.

I'll admit I have no idea what goes on over in reddit because I'd rather poor salt in my eyes than ever click on that swamp.

But my over all point is, its not the hotwife/cuck/cheating genre that's a universal issue. Its a popular and enjoyable kink everywhere else(because the men there are actual men and not woman disparaging babies) but there. Culture is something that is shaped over time and often by whoever is in charge; the head of a business, a coach, a teacher etc who sets a tone others follow. The culture in LW is one of incel/insecure/ woman haters who over time have gone from a vocal minority to driving off many of the other types of authors and readers and given it the well deserved reputation it has gained. That reputation includes violence torture and rape for titillation, all things that often get a story booted in other categories...over the top NC will get booted in NC FFS, but not there. Now go back to my point of who sets the tone of a culture. Lit is the only place that has given these people a home and in so doing lost a lot of good people over it.

Funny because here they will remove a post for "Kink shaming" but allow a large faction of readers to bombard a category with comments that shame any author or reader for enjoying their kink.

Over under is less than an hour before this is removed

 

[Lifestyle66]

I know the majority of authors in the AH continue to describe the LW readers as a bunch on women-hating incels.

But in my experience, the majority there (based on the comments) seem to be of a mind that marriage means "monogamy-only", and any extra-marital sex should end in divorce. These are the ones who jump on stories within the first few days of posting to 1-bomb, then their 1s are scraped off later.

I wrote my incel-poking story "A Gathering of Trolls" to test that incel theory, and it rated now an average at 3.01. If the majority of those LW readers were incel trolls, it should have scored much lower.

The extra-marital fun/wife-sharing stories do slightly better, but in my case remain below 4.

The stories which seem to rate above 4 end in divorce or some type of retribution against the cheater. Even your own (LC68) first attempt at LW rated over 4.5 due to the wife's revenge against her cheating husband. The comments bear out that the emotional readers considered the wife's extra-marital sex revenge as equally repulsive. But your story still rated over 4.5. In my similar story recently (in July) where the husband discovers his wife's rule-breaking and merely did the same, it rated at 3.31 after the 1-scraping. So, in my readings of LW trends, they're not incels or women-haters, but more likely extremists with the attitude that marriage means monogamy ... or else divorce.

As long as authors here continue to inject their own biases when trying to convince others they are facts, other authors will continue to miss the mark of what the category reader values most.

EDIT: I would prefer to spread the idea that more stories posted to LW with subtle changes to show separating the marriage "love" from "sex with others" has a place in the world.

 

[NoTalentHack]

I know the majority of authors in the AH continue to describe the LW readers as a bunch on women-hating incels.

But in my experience, the majority there (based on the comments) seem to be of a mind that marriage means "monogamy-only", and any extra-marital sex should end in divorce. These are the ones who jump on stories within the first few days of posting to 1-bomb, then their 1s are scraped off later.

I wrote my incel-poking story "A Gathering of Trolls" to test that incel theory, and it rated now an average at 3.01. If the majority of those LW readers were incel trolls, it should have scored much lower.

The extra-marital fun/wife-sharing stories do slightly better, but in my case remain below 4.

The stories which seem to rate above 4 end in divorce or some type of retribution against the cheater. Even your own (LC68) first attempt at LW rated over 4.5 due to the wife's revenge against her cheating husband. The comments bear out that the emotional readers considered the wife's extra-marital sex revenge as equally repulsive. But your story still rated over 4.5. In my similar story recently (in July) where the husband discovers his wife's rule-breaking and merely did the same, it rated at 3.31 after the 1-scraping. So, in my readings of LW trends, they're not incels or women-haters, but more likely extremists with the attitude that marriage means monogamy ... or else divorce.

As long as authors here continue to inject their own biases when trying to convince others they are facts, other authors will continue to miss the mark of what the category reader values most.

I agree with most of this. I think it's not incels at all; it's a monogamy fetish, for lack of a better term. Incels ain't getting anything at all; I think, if you had to pick a preferred place for them it would be MC or NC/R. Not to say the readers there are incels, just saying that's where they'd end up.

And even "fetish" is probably the wrong term, because that implies a sexual fantasy; it's a non-sexual fantasy, one where the other person can be trusted to keep to their vows.

... Pretty sure I could write a whole paper of how that interfaces with the perceived failure of the American dream, how the failure of "take care of the company and it'll take care of you" has morphed into "if you stay at your job for longer than two years, you're fucking your career." Focus, NTH. Focus.

It's just that the monogamy "fetish" has nowhere else on the site to go (and arguably very few places on the internet) and it inherently conflicts with the intended infidelity fetish that Loving Wives was supposed to be about and never entirely was. There's no reason for LW to exist except for that fetish; EC could have been one-on-one cheating stories, Group for swinging, Fetish or BDSM for cuckolding, etc. And while LC is wrong about a lot of things, he's NOT wrong that Lit has become the only reliable place where monogamy "fetishists" can go for their fix, at least if they want to get original stories.

 

[SimonDoom]

I know the majority of authors in the AH continue to describe the LW readers as a bunch on women-hating incels.

But in my experience, the majority there (based on the comments) seem to be of a mind that marriage means "monogamy-only", and any extra-marital sex should end in divorce. These are the ones who jump on stories within the first few days of posting to 1-bomb, then their 1s are scraped off later.

I wrote my incel-poking story "A Gathering of Trolls" to test that incel theory, and it rated now an average at 3.01. If the majority of those LW readers were incel trolls, it should have scored much lower.

The extra-marital fun/wife-sharing stories do slightly better, but in my case remain below 4.

The stories which seem to rate above 4 end in divorce or some type of retribution against the cheater. Even your own (LC68) first attempt at LW rated over 4.5 due to the wife's revenge against her cheating husband. The comments bear out that the emotional readers considered the wife's extra-marital sex revenge as equally repulsive. But your story still rated over 4.5. In my similar story recently (in July) where the husband discovers his wife's rule-breaking and merely did the same, it rated at 3.31 after the 1-scraping. So, in my readings of LW trends, they're not incels or women-haters, but more likely extremists with the attitude that marriage means monogamy ... or else divorce.

As long as authors here continue to inject their own biases when trying to convince others they are facts, other authors will continue to miss the mark of what the category reader values most.

EDIT: I would prefer to spread the idea that more stories posted to LW with subtle changes to show separating the marriage "love" from "sex with others" has a place in the world.

I think this is pretty much right. I've used the word "incel" to describe the LW crowd, but on further reflection and after reviewing yours and NoTalentHack's comments I don't think that's quite the right term. I think of an incel as a 27 year old man who has never gotten laid and who is seething with anger against woman in general because of his celibacy. That doesn't seem like the motivation for the LW crowd. Most of them probably ARE married or HAVE been married and they have extremely hostile views toward sex outside marriage in any form, including when it's perfectly consensual between the man and woman. Of course, we're all just speculating about the underlying psychology of these male readers, but Lifestyle66's account makes sense to me.

I agree with LC that if you publish a "hot wife" story outside LW you are much less likely to draw criticism and downvotes than if you publish in LW. I know because I've written and published several of these stories and they've done well outside LW, sometimes with a few but not too many hostile comments. Scores in LW are much lower, but views and favorites in LW can be quite good, though not necessarily much better. Last May I published two hot wife "Mrs. Pillsbury" stories, one in LW and one in Mature, and they did about the same in views but the one in Mature had a score of 4.6 while the one in LW had a score of 4. From now on I probably will post most hot wife stories in a category OTHER than LW.

It's too bad that there isn't a category for hot wife stories that won't draw the venom that stories in LW get. There's some logic to having separate "hot wife" and "cheating with consequences" categories, but for a variety of reasons I don't see it happening.

 

[Altissimus]

Is there perhaps a case to be made to Laurel for splitting LW into two new categories? Granted, the readership and voting numbers would be a lot lower, but if it was divided carefully you could put all the haters-of-this over there, and all the haters-of-that here, and we'd all be a lot happier.

I know how much reluctance there is to mess with the very old category titles on Lit, but really... this one is a special case.

Also, you lot would have to find something else to talk about. That's just a bonus, though, and not at all my reasons for suggesting it. At all. Promise.

 

[MrPixel]

My solution is to avoid the angst altogether and not publish in LW. If other authors boycotted LW in sufficient numbers, I'm sure that the-powers-that-be would get the message.

Like that's gonna happen.

 

[RejectReality]

Dividing the category at this point would more or less necessitate making LW as it exists a legacy category that accepts no new submissions, and then creating two brand new categories. There's simply too much content for anyone/any team to split it, and relying on users to do it would be a hellscape. The BTB faction would label 99% of the stories as cuckold stories.

It's a logistical nightmare, and the "solution" presents its own problems.

It was too broad of a category from the get-go, and the readership factions ( + authors purposely poking the bear ) have made it unsalvageable.

 

[Altissimus]

Like that's gonna happen.

^^

I don't read or write there. Never have, never will... apart from when one of my so-called 'friends' asks me to beta-read something and only *afterwards* tells me it's LW.

 

[BobbyLaker]

...
Also, you lot would have to find something else to talk about. That's just a bonus, though, and not at all my reasons for suggesting it. At all. Promise.

 

[BobbyLaker]

I’m scared to death of the idea of posting a story to LW, given the many AH threads like this one. I mostly swim in the fetish lane and it’s been nice. It feels safe, insulated (mostly) from the scary LW crowd.
But I really want to explore the slutwife/cuck thing. For…reasons. My latest story sorta does but it’s more about first-time submission than about cheating. So I put the story in BDSM, rather than LW, thereby avoiding what I really want to do. So I ’kicked the can’ as it were.
I guess my point is that putting a cheating wife story in BDSM hasn’t resulted in a torrent of 1-bombs and nasty comments - quite the opposite - which tends to validate LC68’s thesis.

Still, the temptation is tremendous…

Go on... poke the bear.
What's the worst that could happen?

 

[BobbyLaker]

As an extra-marital daliance could readily be dropped into any number of Lit categories e.g. EC, it's not hard to avoid the LW grief surely?

 

[BobbyLaker]

The 1-bombers raid my other stories?
I know, I shouldn’t care. But I do - I admit it

Good point @Victoria14xs
Being hunted across categories wouldn't be much fun.

Hopefully the periodic 'scraping' of 1-bombs helps?

 

[Lifestyle66]

Is there perhaps a case to be made to Laurel for splitting LW into two new categories? Granted, the readership and voting numbers would be a lot lower, but if it was divided carefully you could put all the haters-of-this over there, and all the haters-of-that here, and we'd all be a lot happier.

I know how much reluctance there is to mess with the very old category titles on Lit, but really... this one is a special case.

Also, you lot would have to find something else to talk about. That's just a bonus, though, and not at all my reasons for suggesting it. At all. Promise.

There's no need to split the category or make changes. LW is what it is.

For those of you who are afraid to post there or feel the burning need for all readers to LOVE your work, go elsewhere and try to find the audience you want.

Leave LW as it is for those of us who have no need for a 5 from every reader. I appreciate that they read my stories, even if they merely skim over them and 1-bomb it. I particularly enjoy the comments which indicate I made their heads explode!

Stephen King doesn't write his stories for you to LOVE and happily enjoy. He wants you to be sick and vomit! He writes for you to be appalled at the horrors, as only a truly sick mind would love them. Everyone is different, and the LW readers (yes, even the monogamous-only, swinger-haters) has their right to believe as they do. Something in real life made them who they are. So, they're not necessarily wrong, just different.

Be more tolerant!

 

[Lifestyle66]

The 1-bombers raid my other stories?
I know, I shouldn’t care. But I do - I admit it

As I've asserted in other threads here in the AH with my own evidence of multiple 1s quickly across my stories, there are other authors or at least lurkers reading the posts here in the AH who will chase your stories to 1-bomb them, if you merely disagree with their POV!

So, be careful what you say even here, if you are so afraid of them.

 

[Altissimus]

There's no need to split the category or make changes. LW is what it is.

Sorry, you're right, I shouldn't have started this thread. Wait, hang on...

For those of you who are afraid to post there or feel the burning need for all readers to LOVE your work, go elsewhere and try to find the audience you want.

Hmm.

Leave LW as it is for those of us who have no need for a 5 from every reader.

You're welcome to it, but I think you misunderstand. LW isn't for 'those authors who don't need 5s', LW is for those authors that want to post in LW. Hope that helps.

Be more tolerant!

Good advice, good advice. Those that can't, teach, as they say.

 

[AchtungNight]

A future story of mine- “Fire Woman”, I’ve talked about it before- will be placed in Loving Wives. I’ve made that decision. A man and woman, happily married, allow each other brief flings, come back to each other afterwards, their marriage remains intact. Each new fling has the potential to upset the apple cart, but they walk the tightrope and trust each other. This works for them. I like to think this is a polyamorous relationship but also monogamous in its own way.

We’ll see what the readers think of it. Saints preserve me, I’ll start writing it soon.

 

[madelinemasoch]

I guess my point is that putting a cheating wife story in BDSM hasn’t resulted in a torrent of 1-bombs and nasty comments

Mine did.

 

[Constories]

I don't read or write there. Never have, never will... apart from when one of my so-called 'friends' asks me to beta-read something and only *afterwards* tells me it's LW.

Ouch

 

[MillieDynamite]

The story I'm writing at the moment, is about a witch who targets a married family. It's loosely set somewhere in the South. In my mind it's Somewhere in Southern part of Georgia, Mississippi, or Louisiana. It's more than likely Louisiana, some where bordering the Bijou country. At any rate, the primary part of the story is set in plantation mansion. A young appearing black woman, Lilo Kossula uses Juju (magic) to take control of a family. The wife is a cheater, who leaves for a weekend a month with her "girlfriends" but is actually seeing another man.

I was hoping to have it ready for the Halloween contest, but I'm on my third start. Should I get it done, it may go into loving wives, but it probably shouldn't even though it can be viewed as BTB story, as Lilo has sex with the whole family in taking her vengeance against a family descended from slave holders. She is either a decedent of one of their slaves, or was one of the families slaves.

But, my mind thinks, maybe the haters than would like it as well. But that's probably wishful thinking.

 

[Britva415]

There's no reason for LW to exist except for that fetish

According to the category description (hotwives, cucking, swapping, sharing) that's not the place for the monogamy fetish at all.

Hot take: Maybe "Romance" is the place for the monogamy fetish.

 

[Britva415]

I think of an incel as a 27 year old man who has never gotten laid and who is seething with anger against woman in general because of his celibacy.

I don't really know, because I don't know any or investigate their corners of the internet, but I imagine that 27 is close to the lower bound of a very wide age band.

 

[Britva415]

LW is for those authors that want to post in LW

It sure isn't for "those authors who want 5's," is it.

 

[Altissimus]

It sure isn't for "those authors who want 5's," is it.

Everyone gets 5s. It's the other scores that make the difference.

Top lists in LW have 4.9s with vote numbers in the thousands. Kinda undermines the argument, doesn't it?

 

[TadOverdon]

The Penthouse Letters books were virtually built on the appeal of hotwife tales - that and IR, often both combined.

 

[NoTalentHack]

According to the category description (hotwives, cucking, swapping, sharing) that's not the place for the monogamy fetish at all.

Hot take: Maybe "Romance" is the place for the monogamy fetish.

It’s not, I don’t think. They have their own structure to storytelling over there, and the two kinds don’t mesh well.