Looking for critical feed back (BDSM)

[Rollingcoffe1]

Starting a new story series and would really appreciate some feedback. The premise is three people, wife, husband and Dom are all new to the idea of BDSM but all want to try it.

It’s essentially an exploration of how three people respond and grow to the new experiences. Looking forward to pushing their boundaries.

https://literotica.com/s/three-trees-ch-01-a-date

Chapter 2 is pending approval

 

[TheRedChamber]

There's a lot of potential in the story - three complete novices to BDSM trying things out, taking things slowly, and (I assume) making the occasional mistake sounds like it could be a good read. This first chapter is a very gentle setup which, for what's there, works reasonably well - a date with just an edge of control.

That said, my biggest problem with this submission is that there is just not much there yet. You've got 800 words on backstory/dating profiles and then a 1000-word scene, which is pretty short for any scene. I think it's worth making the point that the general consensus on the forums is that for continuing stories 5k-20k submissions are probably the way to go. I felt this here - if there had been more, I'd have definitely kept reading. Will I still be excited in a few days when the next chapter drops in a story where not much has actually happened yet? (Note that a Lit submission is different in nature from a book chapter where 3k words might be suitable)

I'd argue that you probably don't need the dating profile info dump - people reading and then responding in a literate fashion to each other's messages is a very 'safe' beginning which distracts from the central starting question of 'is this a date or not?' What I'd suggest you probably do need (or rather what I would have liked) is an actual appearance by the husband (either in this chapter or in the next one but *in this submission*). You've seem to have built the concept that it's about all three of them and Steve is only present around the edges here.

Talking of length, you've got the date bookend by him ordering and him paying, the two expressions of the very gentle 'fetish' on display here. That's all good, but there's not a lot of meat in the sandwich. I've recently written one of these type of date scenes and it can be difficult to know when to cut as you obviously can't just do everything they said through the whole hour (or however long). However, here you just dismiss them as talking about their likes and past - which to a certain extent is stuff the reader might be interested in. At least I'd hope that during the date their opinions of each other are shaped somewhat - at the moment there's too much simple 'they like each other'

Speaking of which, on the second read through I realized I had no idea how old the pair are. There's no talk of children, talk of divorce, talk of marrying childhood sweethearts but I have no idea if they are mid-twenties or mid-forties. There's a lot about their desires but not much about who they actually are. Again, there's time for this, but I'm not yet invested in them as people (which again is why I wouldn't stop the first 'chapter' so early.)

I'll note that you're head-hopping in this story. Generally, you'd advised not to do this, but I don't hate it as much as some readers and I think it can work for the type of story you are writing. That said, it's easy to get into a mess with it.

One last point - the ordering food for her. The first time I read through this, I missed the fact that this was something she'd specifically asked for (my fault). As this is the main 'dommy' thing he does, I felt more could have been made of this. What would she have ordered herself? What did she think of the order? What was the food like when it came? It's also apparent that he's ordered the safest thing on the menu which, in itself, could be seen as a funny (or maybe sensible) thing for a juniour dom to do. She has a simple 'turned on by it' reaction, but you could have spun it out a bit longer.

 

[nice90sguy]

Yes, as @TheRedChamber says, a little on the short side, even for an introductiory chapter.

First, the good points:

I really like the "freeze-frame, flashback, resume" when the waitress asks them what they want to drink. In fact the narrative is propelling and engaging, right from the start. That's great, and shows you have good control over narrative. That's my most significant criticism of your writing, and it's a positive criticism.

The language is simple and doesn't get in the way -- it's easy to read.

Now some negatives, which detract from the story:

First, my biggest issue, which theredchamber also mentioned:

You might want to rethink the POV of the story: Right now, you're 3d person omnicient -- you're describing not just the protags' actions, but their inner thoughts too. Perhaps there would be more power in the story if WE, the readers, have to infer one or more of the character's thoughts from their words and actions alone, more like in a movie, which typically "shows, not tells" what's going on.

There are lots of minor grammatical/typo issues with dialog: forgetting closing quotes, ending the speech with a period or forgetting the terminating punctuation, instead of using a comma, etc. Sometimes you correctly terminate with a period though.

The text chat should use a differnt font -- make it italic (by putting <i> and </i> around each line, or submitting as a word doc which has italics in it).

"How about a hug?" He both suggested and commanded.

That's ugly/lazy. It was superficially a suggestion, but he (or only she? or both of them?) felt it was a command. Don't tell the readers how we're meant to take what they're saying. But it's fine to tell the readers how the chracters interpret their speech. But what you did is part of your 3rd person omnicient problem.

I really look forward to seeing the story develop!

 

[Rollingcoffe1]

There's a lot of potential in the story - three complete novices to BDSM trying things out, taking things slowly, and (I assume) making the occasional mistake sounds like it could be a good read. This first chapter is a very gentle setup which, for what's there, works reasonably well - a date with just an edge of control.

That said, my biggest problem with this submission is that there is just not much there yet. You've got 800 words on backstory/dating profiles and then a 1000-word scene, which is pretty short for any scene. I think it's worth making the point that the general consensus on the forums is that for continuing stories 5k-20k submissions are probably the way to go. I felt this here - if there had been more, I'd have definitely kept reading. Will I still be excited in a few days when the next chapter drops in a story where not much has actually happened yet? (Note that a Lit submission is different in nature from a book chapter where 3k words might be suitable)

I'd argue that you probably don't need the dating profile info dump - people reading and then responding in a literate fashion to each other's messages is a very 'safe' beginning which distracts from the central starting question of 'is this a date or not?' What I'd suggest you probably do need (or rather what I would have liked) is an actual appearance by the husband (either in this chapter or in the next one but *in this submission*). You've seem to have built the concept that it's about all three of them and Steve is only present around the edges here.

Talking of length, you've got the date bookend by him ordering and him paying, the two expressions of the very gentle 'fetish' on display here. That's all good, but there's not a lot of meat in the sandwich. I've recently written one of these type of date scenes and it can be difficult to know when to cut as you obviously can't just do everything they said through the whole hour (or however long). However, here you just dismiss them as talking about their likes and past - which to a certain extent is stuff the reader might be interested in. At least I'd hope that during the date their opinions of each other are shaped somewhat - at the moment there's too much simple 'they like each other'

Speaking of which, on the second read through I realized I had no idea how old the pair are. There's no talk of children, talk of divorce, talk of marrying childhood sweethearts but I have no idea if they are mid-twenties or mid-forties. There's a lot about their desires but not much about who they actually are. Again, there's time for this, but I'm not yet invested in them as people (which again is why I wouldn't stop the first 'chapter' so early.)

I'll note that you're head-hopping in this story. Generally, you'd advised not to do this, but I don't hate it as much as some readers and I think it can work for the type of story you are writing. That said, it's easy to get into a mess with it.

One last point - the ordering food for her. The first time I read through this, I missed the fact that this was something she'd specifically asked for (my fault). As this is the main 'dommy' thing he does, I felt more could have been made of this. What would she have ordered herself? What did she think of the order? What was the food like when it came? It's also apparent that he's ordered the safest thing on the menu which, in itself, could be seen as a funny (or maybe sensible) thing for a juniour dom to do. She has a simple 'turned on by it' reaction, but you could have spun it out a bit longer.

I want to thank you for the extremely helpful and insightful feedback. Reading my own writing, (ugh, I hate it) I think I have a pretty good sense of what I do well and don’t do well. But the part I feel most uncertain about is the pacing and the length. I was already feeling anxious about the amount of background and character development against the lack of actual sex.

It’s the first time I’ve tried to write something “serialized” like this and it’s really hard to know when to break. I want to round out the characters more, but I worried about boring the reader to death before I deliver on the sex.

Any interest in pre reading next chapters before I post? I would have happily added more per post if I had a little more patience and the confidence that “no, you won’t lose readers with more details about x” here. Coffeeproto@protonmail.com

 

[Rollingcoffe1]

Yes, as @TheRedChamber says, a little on the short side, even for an introductiory chapter.

First, the good points:

I really like the "freeze-frame, flashback, resume" when the waitress asks them what they want to drink. In fact the narrative is propelling and engaging, right from the start. That's great, and shows you have good control over narrative. That's my most significant criticism of your writing, and it's a positive criticism.

The language is simple and doesn't get in the way -- it's easy to read.

Now some negatives, which detract from the story:

First, my biggest issue, which theredchamber also mentioned:

You might want to rethink the POV of the story: Right now, you're 3d person omnicient -- you're describing not just the protags' actions, but their inner thoughts too. Perhaps there would be more power in the story if WE, the readers, have to infer one or more of the character's thoughts from their words and actions alone, more like in a movie, which typically "shows, not tells" what's going on.

There are lots of minor grammatical/typo issues with dialog: forgetting closing quotes, ending the speech with a period or forgetting the terminating punctuation, instead of using a comma, etc. Sometimes you correctly terminate with a period though.

The text chat should use a differnt font -- make it italic (by putting <i> and </i> around each line, or submitting as a word doc which has italics in it).



That's ugly/lazy. It was superficially a suggestion, but he (or only she? or both of them?) felt it was a command. Don't tell the readers how we're meant to take what they're saying. But it's fine to tell the readers how the chracters interpret their speech. But what you did is part of your 3rd person omnicient problem.

I really look forward to seeing the story develop!

Hi, and thanks for the great feedback!

Yes, as @TheRedChamber says, a little on the short side, even for an introductiory chapter.

First, the good points:

I really like the "freeze-frame, flashback, resume" when the waitress asks them what they want to drink. In fact the narrative is propelling and engaging, right from the start. That's great, and shows you have good control over narrative. That's my most significant criticism of your writing, and it's a positive criticism.

The language is simple and doesn't get in the way -- it's easy to read.

Now some negatives, which detract from the story:

First, my biggest issue, which theredchamber also mentioned:

You might want to rethink the POV of the story: Right now, you're 3d person omnicient -- you're describing not just the protags' actions, but their inner thoughts too. Perhaps there would be more power in the story if WE, the readers, have to infer one or more of the character's thoughts from their words and actions alone, more like in a movie, which typically "shows, not tells" what's going on.

There are lots of minor grammatical/typo issues with dialog: forgetting closing quotes, ending the speech with a period or forgetting the terminating punctuation, instead of using a comma, etc. Sometimes you correctly terminate with a period though.

The text chat should use a differnt font -- make it italic (by putting <i> and </i> around each line, or submitting as a word doc which has italics in it).



That's ugly/lazy. It was superficially a suggestion, but he (or only she? or both of them?) felt it was a command. Don't tell the readers how we're meant to take what they're saying. But it's fine to tell the readers how the chracters interpret their speech. But what you did is part of your 3rd person omnicient problem.

I really look forward to seeing the story develop!

Thanks for the great feedback! I haven’t attempted a serialized format before and wasn’t sure what target for length. My initial thought were “short chunks that are easily consumable” but seeing your feedback and @TheRedChamber is really helpful as it provides a target.

The grammar… sorry. I write quickly, can be lazy, and got annoyed waiting for a volunteer editor to respond. I’ll try and tidy it up and I hope to get an editor I mesh well with. (Any suggestions?)

The POV - this is a toughie. My goal is to explore each character as they develop. Chapter 2 is live now and provides husbands’ thoughts more. Bluntly - my limits as an author and my time to spend on it are my biggest challenges. I like when the reader is left to infer details, but if you raise that bar to high, it leaves readers behind. Getting it just right usually means drafting, getting feedback, redrafting, etc. With no current editor, and trying to draft between meetings at work… it’s hard and I try to default to ‘easy’ so I can be efficient with time. But honestly, I kinda like getting called out for it because it’ll push me to focus more.

The story… I have the next few chapters mapped out in my head, but it largely sits as a “lots of interesting directions to take these three.” Hopefully I can entertain people with whatever time they are willing to spend on me.

Let me know if you are at all interested in a pre-read of future chapters. Coffeeproto@protonmail.com

 

[TheRedChamber]

I want to thank you for the extremely helpful and insightful feedback. Reading my own writing, (ugh, I hate it) I think I have a pretty good sense of what I do well and don’t do well. But the part I feel most uncertain about is the pacing and the length. I was already feeling anxious about the amount of background and character development against the lack of actual sex.

It’s the first time I’ve tried to write something “serialized” like this and it’s really hard to know when to break. I want to round out the characters more, but I worried about boring the reader to death before I deliver on the sex.

I've sent you a PM.

I'd note that for a BDSM story any display of control is kind of equivalent to sex - as long as he's asserting control and she's receptive to it - it doesn't necessarily matter what they are doing. With this chapter you were, at times, nicely in the headspace, so as long as you get there every so often, don't worry about rushing to sex.