Liberals 101

Cheyenne

Ms. Smarty Pantsless
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A cut and paste job for Lavy, Miles, Uncle Bill, Thumper, etc. on this slooooow day on the board. ;)

Liberal 101
Copyright © 2001 By Ray Thomas 08.27.01
http://www.sierratimes.com/archive/files/aug/27/raythomas.htm
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In a conversation I had with a very nice woman with whom I work recently, I was made to realize that what I know about liberals, many other people simply aren't aware of. She claimed to be a liberal because she believed that conservatives wanted to tell her what to do more than liberals did, and liberals were "compassionate." That told me that she knew exactly nothing about liberals or conservatives, and what makes them different. All she knew was what the liberals wanted her to think. I had an epiphany: I need to write something that tells people like this lady the basic things than make a liberal "tick." Here are some of them:

THEY'RE NOT COMPASSIONATE: They just want you to think they're compassionate. It works to their advantage if you do. In order to understand how this works, we have to understand what "compassion" is, by their definition, and by the definition of conservatives and others on the "right." To a liberal, being compassionate is taking money away from those who can and will earn it, and giving it to those who won't. This in order to
help those who won't, to maintain a "just barely livable" standard of living without the bother of working. It is their idea that buying a grocery cart for a homeless person (bum) is "compassionate," while ridiculing those of us who want to help the homeless to become self-sufficient and not need that shopping cart. Their reasoning is that the more people to whom they can
"provide subsistence," the more who will be subject to the "rules and regulations" that come along with their help, will continue to vote them back into office so as to keep the "goodies" coming.
Those on the other side of the political horizon however, believe in what has been said about "giving a man a fish and feeding him for a day or teaching him to fish and feeding him for a lifetime". The liberals count their efforts a success when more and more people are dependent upon them for basic subsistence. We (on the other side) believe that we are successful when more and more people are able to fend for themselves and are not
dependent upon anybody to keep them going. That's the most basic difference between liberals and non-liberals. Which is better?


THEY'RE POWER SEEKERS: Their whole reason for being is to have the power to tell others what they may or may not do. Their success is measured by how many people are dependent upon them for their very subsistence and by how many people they can order around with all their licenses, rules, regulations, and laws. The power to license is the power to control. So is
it any wonder that they're constantly coming up with new schemes to let them "give us permission" to do things it is not their business to stick their noses into? In this article when I refer to "liberals," I don't mean the average person who has "bought" their scam. I mean the "elite liberals" who know that all they teach is rubbish, but who teach it anyway because it
tends to leave them in charge.

THEY'RE COLLECTIVISTS: They've figured out that collectivism (socialism) is the best political weapon of all. If they can convince us that we are all responsible for others before ourselves, they can better control us. If the government (them, they hope) controls everything, they get to tell us what to do, and penalize us if we "disobey." One of the most basic tenets of
collectivism is "giving back to the community." They're saying by that, that the community has given us something for which they did not tax us unmercifully. Their basic guide (for us) is the "altruistic" motto, "From each according to his ability, and to each according to his need." In other words, it's okay to steal from someone who earns a living and give what was
stolen to people who don't, because they don't. Where "need" becomes a demand upon the earnings of those who produce new wealth (profit) from their labors, simply because the drones do no labor to earn for themselves. I don't call that "altruism," I call it "forced altruism." Where the government takes a large part of your earnings and gives it to "the dronesof society" because their "need" entitles them to it.

In order to gain more and more power over all of us, they've set out to undermine everything this country stands for by doing many things, among them these:

DISCREDITING THE CONSTITUTION: They say the Constitution is just a paper written by a bunch of rich landowners who kept slaves and slept around and its purpose was to make sure "their kind" remained in charge, while the "average man" remained in his "station," which is subservient to them. That it is "outdated" and has no meaning in this modern age. A simple reading of
this amazing document would put the lie to that hustle but they depend on people not doing that, while accepting their lies about it. This document is the law of the land. Every law must conform to its tenets in order to be legitimate. Some people say that state constitutions can ignore this, but they can't. The prospective states had to agree to be bound by the National Constitution before they were allowed into the union. There are many laws
that have been made, and enforced, that are unconstitutional. But as long as the constitutional provisions are not enforced, their constitutionality or lack of it means nothing. Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas ruled:
"When a legislature undertakes to proscribe the exercise of a citizen's constitutional rights it acts lawlessly and the citizen can take matters into his own hands and proceed on the basis that such a law is no law at all." So if the courts were honest, every unconstitutional law ever made does not exist. The Constitution is the foundation on which all our laws rest.

The Supreme Court itself ruled: "The general rule is that an
unconstitutional statute, though having the form and name of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void, and ineffective for any purpose; since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment, and not merely from the date of the decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law, in legal contemplation, is as inoperative as if it had never passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be
had the statute not been enacted. Such an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection, and justifies no acts performed under it... A void act cannot be legally consistent with a valid one. An unconstitutional law cannot operate
to supersede any existing valid law. Indeed, insofar as a statute runs counter to the fundamental law of the land, it is superseded thereby.
(Sixteenth AMERICAN JURISPRUDENCE Second Edition, Section 256, page 177)

CONDITIONING US TO BE COLLECTIVISTS: If you examine what you're being told every day, in many ways, what they're telling you is that somehow this "society" has given you something for nothing and you need to "give back." In many cases, they try to convince you to do things for others on your own. But in most cases, they just force you to do it by making laws and
regulations you must obey. And they take money away from you at the point of a gun to pay for it (and if you don't know where the gun is, just try refusing to pay the exorbitant taxes they take away from you). If you read between the lines, you'll recognize their scam at work.

THEY SPEND EVERY PENNY THEY CAN CON US OUT OF FOR "GIVEAWAY" PROGRAMS TO MAKE US DEPENDENT AND TO BUY VOTES: Every day there appears yet another "crisis" for which yet another law or regulation further limiting our rights
"must" be made. Most aren't nearly as important as the elite liberals claim, but they promote them as such anyway, to condition us to allow then to make these laws and to control us a little bit more, while making us pay the freight. They are working hard to make as many people as they can dependent
on the government because a "dependant" is more easily ordered around. If you are the source of most of their livelihood, they have to do what you say or the "gravy train" stops.

THEY "CREATE CRISES" TO STAMPEDE US INTO THINGS WE NORMALLY WOULDN'T ALLOW:
It's called "The Hegelian Principle." It is a system specifically designed to get our permission to make laws and regulations they could not get from us without prior conditioning. It's their favorite scam because it's simple, and it has been working for many years. Here's how it works: 1. Create a problem; 2. Publicize the problem until a solution is demanded: 3. Provide a
"solution" that attains your goals. Is it any wonder each day reveals a new "crisis" for which a new law or regulation must be made in order to "solve the problem?" This is such a simple scam, you'd think we would have tumbled to it before now, but people resist believing that they've been conned by something so simple and transparent. It's their very basic scam, and one they use every day, even today. Now that you know about it, you can "read between the lines" whenever they come up with a new one and maybe, just maybe, not fall for it.

THEIR ANSWER TO EVERY "PROBLEM" IS MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL: There's a reason for that: the more government control there is, the more they can tell everybody what to do. Consequently, whenever a "problem" comes up (or is
manufactured for the purpose), they want a "government program" to deal with it. The government has proven itself incompetent to solve any problem. The only thing they're good at is conning us. But they count on the fact that we don't know that.

THEY LIE AND MISREPRESENT EVERYTHING TO CON US: The politicians are today moaning about the reduced size of the (imaginary) surplus, claiming that soon they're going to have to raise taxes in order to "make ends meet." That's yet another of their lies and misrepresentations. First of all, there is no surplus. The figures they recite to you would disappear if they took
the Social Security taxes they've collected out of the mix. But the Social Security money is already spoken for and should not even be in the general fund. On the "surplus" shrinking, their moans and groans and "crocodile tears" are just another way to hide the truth: that any "surplus" there is should be returned to the taxpayer as soon as possible. It should shrink as fast as possible through tax breaks for those who were charged too much.
When you return the overcharge to the taxpayer, the "surplus" will shrink. That's as it should be. I could go on and on for several different books just reciting their lies and misrepresentations, but this should suffice here. If Wal-Mart overcharged you, you'd want your money back wouldn't you?

THEY TRY TO CONTROL YOUR VERY WORDS WITH "PC SPEECH": One of the best ways to win an argument is to make sure the argument is carried out using words which you have successfully defined yourself, in a way that is "self-serving." That's what "political correctness" is all about. They're forcing you to stop using certain words and to use other words to mean what
they say they mean. That way, they can dictate the very words you use in the debate.

TEACHING US AND OUR CHILDREN THAT THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY: They're constantly "lowering the bar," making it easier for school children and everybody else to "excel" in a world where competition doesn't exist. They don't want grades in school because to get a bad grade "hurts their self-esteem." They want every method to gauge performance to be "on a curve"
so that the lowest performing members can get a better grade without having to work harder for it. Their mechanism for this is "self-esteem." They say it is very important not to hurt anybody's self-esteem by giving them a low grade at anything. If there is no accountability for anything, they feel that they cannot be made to be accountable either. They want no competition
because that would require people to work harder in order to excel.

TURNING OUR CHILDREN INTO WIMPS: They're constantly telling our kids that they don't need to work hard to excel at anything because becoming the best at anything is a "bad thing" because it makes others "feel bad." It lowers their "Self-esteem." Funny; I always thought it was better to accomplish something to give your self-esteem some kind of a solid base. Self-esteem
without accomplishment means nothing and doesn't prepare them for life in the "real world" where nobody recognizes their need for "self-esteem" if they can't do the job for which they were hired.

THEY'RE LOWERING EXPECTATIONS AND ELIMINATING COMPETITION: Part of their scam is to lower the expectations of parents and everybody else. They moan about how "hard" it is for some students to "keep up." So the expectations for everybody should be lowered and no way of grading performance allowed. They'd like to see an auto race where everybody won, not just one team. They'd like to figure out how to have a basketball, football, baseball, or soccer game without scoring the teams. They've even tried that in high school athletics. That's stupid, but that's how you can describe most of their scams.

CONDITIONING OUR CHILDREN FOR COLLECTIVISM: They're constantly causing them to do things that reinforce the concept of "sharing" with their classmates, even if they, themselves have nothing after they do. They are now forcing them to "volunteer" a certain number of hours "helping the less fortunate" before they can get the diploma they have earned through scholastic
excellence. If they refuse, they don't get the diploma. Where I come from, "forced volunteerism" is a misnomer. It's slavery.

DESTROYING PARENTAL AUTHORITY: One of the things any would-be despot knows is that in order to "rule," you must convince the citizens that what you are doing is right and proper, even if it is despotic. To accomplish this in the coming years, they know they must condition the school children to live, not for their own good, but for the good of others, hoping that others would live for their good. It doesn't work that way, because when "need" becomes a
"demand" on the property and earnings of others, people fight each other to become the most "needy." But if they can convince these impressionable children that collectivism is good, they'll have an easier time of it later on. When parents successfully objected to this being taught in many places, they determined that they should destroy parental authority so they could
not do it in the future.

UNDERMINING AND DESTROYING THE FAMILY: To accomplish that, the power seekers in the government established payments for local child protection agencies. They give them a certain amount each month for each child they've snatched from their parents, for however short a time. They underwrite "counseling" and other things parents can be forced to do to avoid being accused of child
abuse (and of course, they charge the parents for it, too). And then, when the parents' rights can be terminated and the children permanently separated from them by adoption, the child protectors get large payments based on the numbers of adoptions. In short, it's a "snatch and sell" scam using our
children as the merchandise. Over a period of time, they have destroyed the authority of parents over their children by the simple fact that an "accusation" of child abuse is treated as if the very accusation is fact. If parents protest, they can be "dealt with," so no more authority. No more rights.

THEY USE PHONY CHILD ABUSE CHARGES TO DESTROY FAMILY RIGHTS: nothing is easier than to accuse somebody of child abuse, even child sexual abuse, without any kind of proof. All it takes is a call to one of those ubiquitous "Child Abuse Hot Lines" they've set up in order to gain as many "reports" of child abuse as they can to get the numbers to support their efforts to
destroy family rights. There is no penalty for giving a false report because the "Good Samaritan Laws" protect everybody who gives such a report from all "legal" retaliation. That includes not only the reporter, but the child protectors, too. There is no accountability anywhere in the system. The child protectors get to do just about anything they want without limit, constitutional or otherwise. They have also set up what they call "mandated
reporters" who must report any suspicion of possible child abuse, even if they don't, themselves believe it is present. They must do this or themselves face career-ending sanctions, maybe even criminal charges if they don't. Once it is brought to the notice of the child protectors, it's "all over. Guilt is established, by the unsupported word of the social worker.

THEY PUT ANIMALS AND INSECTS BEFORE HUMANS, FOR MORE CONTROL: I shouldn't have to even talk much about this, since this is being written at a time when the feds are destroying the livelihoods of 14,000 farmers in Klamath Falls, Oregon by shutting off water they promised would always be there in order to save what they call an "endangered" fish. Even if that fish was
endangered, it's immoral to destroy human beings for the good of that fish. Extinction is "nature's way." Survival of the fittest. What did species like this fish do before the EPA? They've confiscated a farmer's land and imprisoned him because he accidentally ran over and killed an "endangered" rodent while plowing. This, like the child protector operations, has risen to the level of stupidity and those who are "enforcing" the laws and regulations are acting like little dictators. The whole point is to get us used to obeying these outrageous laws and regulations. It's part of our
conditioning.

THEY WANT TO "LICENSE" EVERYTHING WE DO AND/OR TAX IT: Look at your own life. Think of just about anything you want to do and there's a license to buy in order to let you do it. Along with that goes "orders" on how you should do it. You can't do anything anymore without having to pay somebody (who has no business giving it) to give you permission. The power to license
is the power to control, and the power to deny.

THEY REWRITE HISTORY TO FOOL US: They can't stand for you to know things that make them look like fools, so they simply rewrite history. Example: the Reagan years were some of the best years we've ever lived. He took a country suffering from double-digit inflation (caused by liberal policies) and reduced it to below 5%. He lowered the tax base from about 75% to under 40%, therefore creating a massive tax reduction for everybody, (not just "the rich) and that increased the tax "take" by almost 100% by giving investors more money to invest and a reason to invest it. They claim that tax reductions do not stimulate the economy and they look at you like you're crazy when you point out things like this. They claim that Reagan cut so many programs that "the poor" suffered terribly. The truth is that government programs increased while he was president. Again, I could go on
and on, but this should suffice.

THEY WON'T TOLERATE DISAGREEMENT: They spend a lot of time talking about "being tolerant" of others' opinions. But when those opinions go counter to their propaganda, they try to shut people up. They use boycotts, false criminal charges (such as those against an author who just got ten years for writing a book they didn't like) and even murder, which they used against
another author they wouldn't allow to use pot to be able to keep the medicine that kept him alive down until he was found dead, drowned in his own vomit. They don't go in "honestly" as they do in places like Communist China and simply charge them with "criticizing the government." They trump up other charges against them and use those to silence them -- or kill them.

PHONY POLLS AND "STUDIES": Again, every day you hear about another poll or study that shows what they want to show. They use these to mold public opinion. People don't examine the methodology used in these polls and studies, they don't have time, They don't examine the figures and ask what figures were left out or slanted. They just believe them and act on those
beliefs.

"FOR THE CHILDREN": Everything they do these days is "for the children." It doesn't matter if what they're doing has nothing to do with children, they twist things to say it does. Nobody wants to be against "the children," so most people go along with such things. Take note whenever you hear a politician talking about something he wants to do. Chances are you'll hear the words "the children" in his spiel.

THEY'RE DESTROYING MORALITY: They're teaching school children that "the gay life" is normal and natural in Massachusetts and probably in other places we haven't learned of yet. They're teaching them how to practice gay sex. Included in that training is how to do "fisting," which is putting your entire hand up to the wrist or even higher into the rectum or vagina of your partner. This is "normal and natural? Gimme a break! This is just one way in which they're working to destroy morality in this country. I'm sure if you thought about it you could think of more ways.

There are so many more illustrations of what liberalism is, I could write several books, just summarizing the way they operate to undermine us in every way they can. But to simplify, they're out to control us, lock, stock, and barrel. Everything they do is in aid of this simple goal. They're almost there folks, and we need to "push them back." We need to recognize their scams and quit falling for them. That would hurt them more than anything
else.

We are a nation of individuals, and our individual needs should always come first. If that's "selfishness," so be it. There's nothing wrong with the kind of selfishness that says we're not going to support the "drones" of society who refuse to work and support themselves. If everybody took care of themselves there would be no "drones." Sure, there are some people who are
genuinely unable to do for themselves. But it is those who are capable, but who will not, who are diluting what help there is available. We need to change this.

Then we will be able to eliminate the liberals (collectivists, power
seekers, looters) from society, and that can only be a good thing.
 
Extreme? You betcha!

Yes, I know that was an "extreme" viewpoint article so I'll save you the trouble of jumping down my throat.

This section caught my eye in particular, and was the main reason I posted it:


"THEY'RE DESTROYING MORALITY: They're teaching school children that "the gay life" is normal and natural in Massachusetts and probably in other places we haven't learned of yet. They're teaching them how to practice gay sex. Included in that training is how to do "fisting," which is putting your entire hand up to the wrist or even higher into the rectum or vagina of your partner. This is "normal and natural? Gimme a break! This is just one way in which they're working to destroy morality in this country. I'm sure if you thought about it you could think of more ways."

Now, is there really any place in the United States, not just Massachusetts, where this is even remotely true?
 
Pointing out the obvious...but

It's hard for me to fathom any one making such disparaging generalizations such as his...(they teach fisting to their youngin's)

This article reeks of yellow journalism.
 
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Re: Extreme? You betcha!

Cheyenne said:
Yes, I know that was an "extreme" viewpoint article so I'll save you the trouble of jumping down my throat.

This section caught my eye in particular, and was the main reason I posted it:


"THEY'RE DESTROYING MORALITY: They're teaching school children that "the gay life" is normal and natural in Massachusetts and probably in other places we haven't learned of yet. They're teaching them how to practice gay sex. Included in that training is how to do "fisting," which is putting your entire hand up to the wrist or even higher into the rectum or vagina of your partner. This is "normal and natural? Gimme a break! This is just one way in which they're working to destroy morality in this country. I'm sure if you thought about it you could think of more ways."

Now, is there really any place in the United States, not just Massachusetts, where this is even remotely true?


Cheyenne....do you really buy this?...C'mon

Funny though....this action that is claimed to be taught...I didn't see the name of a specific school named,only the accusation.


You are the last person I would exspect to put this up.

Are some of our more rude Lit members talking ugly to you today?



CH
 
Re: Re: Extreme? You betcha!

crystalhunting said:
Cheyenne....do you really buy this?...C'mon

Funny though....this action that is claimed to be taught...I didn't see the name of a specific school named,only the accusation.

You are the last person I would exspect to put this up.

Are some of our more rude Lit members talking ugly to you today?
CH

Guess I wasn't explicit enough- I asked if it was even remotely possible that it was true. I was being facitious. I can't even imagine a school bringing up the topic of fisting, much less teaching anything about it.

p.s. Not to even mention that I doubt if liberals have cornered the market on such things as being gay OR fisting!
 
i think Cheyenne posted it because of how absurd it is ... the article is tacky and biast beyond belief ... the way each heading is in caps speaks for itself im amazed they dont have ! signs after them too :)


most of the accusations she says are actual reasons i am liberal its just she slants the views with her biast/which hunt viewpoint ... i think with politcs you just have to accept that both partys want the same things (a nice country for its citizans) but they have different ideas about how to do it


as for the sex education accusation i think you have to take everything she writes with a pinch of salt im amazed that this lady found anywhere for her to get an acticle like this printed just about anyone here could do better


the one thing she said that really annoyed me was saying about schools teach gay sex to be normal ... and that theres something wrong with that :( ... one of the most difficult parts of my life was when i was at school and i was realizing i was gay i did somethings that i really regret to this day because i thought i was abnormal ... if i had a teacher saying how gay sex can be normal maybe i wouldnt of made those mistakes
 
More, Cheyenne,more!

Where is the Liberal double talk? Just as I thought.
 
Re: More, Cheyenne,more!

miles said:
Where is the Liberal double talk? Just as I thought.


Please refrain from starting a war Miles.

I am a Liberal...and I DONT double talk.

Out of respect to Cheyenne...please...no wars today.




CH
 
Regardless of Cheyenne's motivation in this tribute to Todd, the best part of it is the rest of the website. In a brief slog through sierratimes.com, I found:

An editorial expressing empathy with those who choose to make an armed stand when the police knock on the door, a la the crispy critter in California last week;

A waving Confederate flag;

A notice from the resident financial expert that the worst is over in the stock market; and,

my favorite -- an ad link to a work-at-home scam that features a clip-art picture of a smiling female and the headline "Girls Need Their Own Money." Nothing like 21st Century technology delivering cutting-edge 1955 thinking.

(Lavender - I've now made an honest woman of you in your "bizarre day" thread.)
 
You said it -

Lavy's effort was a genuine effort to discuss some libertarian precepts, rather like the religious threads that seem to prosper here now and then. Cheyenne's thread was more provocative, as she readily acknowledged; the source was highly rhetorical. This is a tit-for-tat post, not an answer, though it made Miles very happy. I suspect that Lavy is genuinely interested in hearing all of our thoughts on this stuff. This wasn't some kind of ambush thread. For instance, I liked Uncle Bill's answer to my query on Lavy's thread about "tort reform;" after a rhetorical burst, he said something thoughtful that at least addresses some legal problems.

Lavy did not accuse libertarians of bizarre sexual practices, as anyone at Lit knows this would be tantamount to calling Bush a moron; Ayn Rand herself was pretty upfront about being a bottom.
 
lavender said:
If one cannot see the difference between what Cheyenne posted about liberalism and what I posted about libertarianism, they are more stubborn and pig headed than I thought.

Well, this article was extreme enough that the "truth" buried in it is buried pretty deep. But I think that was Miles' point on the Libertarianism thread- it seemed just as bizarre to him as this one does to liberals. Am I close, Miles?

And I can't believe no one wants to talk about the liberals teaching fisting in our schools! :p
 
Cheyenne said:
Well, this article was extreme enough that the "truth" buried in it is buried pretty deep. But I think that was Miles' point on the Libertarianism thread- it seemed just as bizarre to him as this one does to liberals. Am I close, Miles?
I only scanned Lavy's libertarian thread, as I first saw it too far into the conversation. The main difference in its origin and in this thread, as least to me, is that Lavy actually wrote the opening post, with genuine questions aimed at Libertarians. She may have misstated some Libertarian stances, but with the aim of correcting her limited knowledge. I know from off-Board conversations with her that she is interested in understanding each political perspective, even if she holds true to liberalism. This cut-and-paste, however, is simply meant to inflame. Arch conservatives will agree, and everyone else will find it flawed. It cannot act as a catalyst to understanding, because the author only wishes to paint the world in broad black-and-white strokes. And whatever "truth" it holds is buried so far deep as to be unrecognizable.
 
*sigh*

It seems that we have a room full of people who know little more than what they hear on TV.

Republicrats, libertarians, green party, evolutionary socialists, are all LIBERALS. Just because TV journalists don't know a damn thing about political theory and social philosophy doesn't mean we're all bound to use their faulty vernacular.

From the entry at the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:


‘By definition’, Maurice Cranston rightly pointed out, ‘a liberal is a man who believes in liberty’ (Cranston, 459). In two different ways, liberals accord liberty primacy as a political value. First, liberals have typically maintained that humans are naturally in ‘a State of perfect Freedom to order their Actions...as they think fit...without asking leave, or depending on the Will of any other Man’ (Locke, 1960 [1689]: 287). Mill too argued that ‘[T]he burthen of proof is supposed to ith those who are against liberty; who contend for any restriction or prohibition.... The a priori assumption is in favour of freedom...’(Mill, 1991 [1859]: 472). This might be called the Fundamental Liberal Principle (Gaus, 1996: 162-166): freedom is normatively basic, and so the onus of justification is on those who would limit freedom. It follows from this that political authority and law must be justified, as they limit the liberty of citizens. Consequently, a central question of liberal political theory is whether political authority can be justified, and if so, how. It is for this reason that social contract theory, as developed Thomas Hobbes (1948 [1651]), John Locke (1960 [1689]), Jean-Jacques Rousseau (1973 [1762]) and Immanuel Kant (1965 [1797]), is usually viewed as liberal even though the actual political prescriptions of, say, Hobbes and Rousseau, have distinctly illiberal features. Insofar as they take as their starting point a state of nature in which humans are free and equal, and so argue that any limitation of this freedom and equality stands in need of justification (i.e., by the social contract), the contractual tradition expresses the Fundamental Liberal Principle
 
What the fuck?

How's anyone supposed to argue with THAT? The New Miles is Problematic.
 
THEY'RE DESTROYING MORALITY: They're teaching school children that "the gay life" is normal and natural in Massachusetts and probably in other places we haven't learned of yet. They're teaching them how to practice gay sex. Included in that training is how to do "fisting," which is putting your entire hand up to the wrist or even higher into the rectum or vagina of your partner. This is "normal and natural? Gimme a break! This is just one way in which they're working to destroy morality in this country. I'm sure if you thought about it you could think of more ways.

I try to like the conservatives, I do. Yet here I am on a pornography board confronted by the same bigotry and plain ugliness I try to escape in the real world and guess what? It's not the liberals that are posting it.
I get tired of hearing about free speech and 'rights' from a group that lacks the cajoles to tell the racists and homophobes of the word that they're the 'immoral' ones. This man isn't interested in liberty or freedom, yet he's packaged as a conservative from a will known conservative board member.

This man isn't compassionate, he's nasty and he makes gross generalizations about anyone who doesn't believe in what he believes. Come on Cheyenne, I can't see you as even believing a tenth of what he says but you're willing to post his opinions? You're better than that.

The conservatives on this board are, as a rule, some of the most intelligent and thoughtful members of their 'group' I've had the pleasure of meeting yet they refuse to take issue with someone who calls themselves 'conservative' and spews the most unintelligable garbage about 'the other side'.

It's just sad.
 
Okay.. I jumped the gun slightly here but Cheyenne, to say this man has an 'extreme' viewpoint is putting it lightly. Where I a conservative I'd never use this as an example of buried 'truths'.

Yes, high schools in Massachusetts are including a good deal of 'gay' curriculum in their sex ed. class. There are two reasons for this, there are a lot of out high schooler's in Mass. that basically saying, "This doesn't apply to me, what about when I have sex?" and the number of gays harassed in high school, or even physically assaulted has been rising dramatically in the past five years.

The high schools are responsible for the well being of every student and they have to deal with it someway. When I lived in Mass. I was involved in a gay youth group in the north Boston area and students whose high school's included the 'gay positive' materials into a sex ed, or even an assembly had a much easier time.

As for anal fisting being taught, that's a load of crock.
 
Never -

That's just how Barry Goldwater tended to be - a great individualist with some nasty contradictions and some godawful supporters....
 
lavender
"Yes, the school's didn't teach Neverkins this art. She had to learn it ALL from me. :p"


I still have trouble sitting down.

At this point I'd like to add that I'm not liberal, I'm an independent.
Oh, and who the hay is Berry Goldwater?
 
never

"As for anal fisting being taught, that's a load of crock."


Okay, okay, it was a stretch. (Pun intended).

Actually, they taught buttfucking. Fisting was for college credit.
 
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