Less vampires please...

[Cruel2BKind]

lol, good for lovecraft!

Just because I am helpless for eye candy, at least your daughters were raised with some sense! I am aware of what a helpless teen girl I was for those shmutty books I read in my earlier days! (earlier=1 year ago) Anyway, I like staring at Robert Patterson without a shirt, and yes, I will get defensive about it, lol.

PS Bella is the most conniving and selfish character in the history of forever. What if rob and taylor just forgot her and went gay? DO I SMELL A HAPPY ENDING!?!

^_^

 

[lovecraft68]

Just because I am helpless for eye candy, at least your daughters were raised with some sense! I am aware of what a helpless teen girl I was for those shmutty books I read in my earlier days! (earlier=1 year ago) Anyway, I like staring at Robert Patterson without a shirt, and yes, I will get defensive about it, lol.

PS Bella is the most conniving and selfish character in the history of forever. What if rob and taylor just forgot her and went gay? DO I SMELL A HAPPY ENDING!?!

^_^

Well my youngest (18) does think 'wolfboy' is hot, but that is as a person not a character.
My daughters were raised with the classics, they have read Poe, Lovecraft, King, McCammon, Lumley and like me, think watching the Exorcist should be a national past time. They're also huge Rob Zombie and Marilyn Manson fans.

Having said that, it's a good thing my wife is around to help them with all that unimportant school stuff.

 

[sr71plt]

But at some point, if you change them enough they stop being what most people define as "vampires." I mean, what if we erase the requirement that a vampire drink blood? A lot of other stuff is, as you say, fiction and legend and can be changed. For example, there are old vampire stories that say vampires can survive in daylight as compared to Dracula where the vampire must return to his coffin or turn to dust. So the need to sleep in a coffin during the day could be argued as not being a requirement for a monster which we are calling "vampire." But we use the very word "vampire" to indicate something that thrives on the "blood" or life-force of others.

Which means that if we get rid of that, we're left with something that is, arguably, not a vampire.

It's all well and good to say that they're mythical and we can define them as we like, but we also have to take into account that, as writers, we rely on commonly agreed on definitions to words in order to communicate with our readers. This includes words for things which are mythical. Change something too much, and readers will feel deceived--i.e. that they were told this was a vampire story, but the creatures in it don't need to drink blood--they live on nectar from the flowers, have pretty wings and instead of being the living dead, they come from a magical place...in this instance, we risk alienating readers as they'd rightfully feel that the writer lied to them because the book promised vampires but delivered fairies.

Well, sure, if you like to be controlled by what others think.

My vampires like/need blood well enough, but it has to be mixed with something else--which is what makes the stories erotica rather than the usual pablum.

 

[3113]

Well, sure, if you like to be controlled by what others think.

I don't like to be controlled by what others think...but I do want to be read by readers, not just by myself

 

[Stella_Omega]

... They make her a virgin who ALMOST sleeps with three guys just in the first book.

She is an insufferable preppy slutty cock-tease, being a complete whore in the first two books (which I read) and presumably being a complete whore in the other five (which I didn't). According to my friend who actually follows the stories, she loses her cherry in the forth book, to a man twenty years older then her.

So that's who was our role model. A lofty preppy brunette who dicks around with boys one minute, and tells us the next minute that she wants to have a special first time. She has the emotional range of a teaspoon, and the logic of a 5-year-old.

Isn't this just one series? you may ask. Yes, but it is becoming the formula, and not the exception.
FML

Fuuuuck. This pisses me off so hard. What, i ask you, was I fighting for all those years of women's liberation? For the right of kids to learn how to lie to themselves all over again, on a slightly different axis?

Allow me to suggest Sara Rees Brennan's Demon's Lexicon series, Miss teenager I'd love to know what you think of it... Her characters don't waste much time lying to themselves at any rate.

 

[sr71plt]

I don't like to be controlled by what others think...but I do want to be read by readers, not just by myself

I'm earning royalties off all of my vampire stories, so I don't have to wonder or worry much about that. I can quantify the commited readership (buyers). The niche is satisfying enough for me.

I read the classic vampire stories. I haven't read much of any since then. There are parameters, yes, but the more you let them control you, the more stale your story is going to be. The more you can bend and redefine them, the fresher your work will be--and the more fun both you and readers who aren't anal retentive can have. I don't cater to the anal retentive on such "rules." So, I guess my readers are elsewhere and that's just fine with me.

 

[PennLady]

If we always keep vampires as one step above zombies, thinking monsters who want blood, what fun is that? Part of the fun I have in writing vampire stories is figuring out which parts of the mythos I will keep, which I will change and which I will just throw out.

Why not have vampires who are, so to speak, decent people? If they were human once, why can't some of that continue, and so they like things, dislike things, and search for love? It's just another story idea to play with.

I've had vampires that could survive sunlight and others that couldn't. I worked out a whole "progression" thing for vampires in one of my stories. It can be fun to play around with that, like when you play with stories and characters in the public domain. It keeps things fresh.

 

[3113]

I'm earning royalties off all of my vampire stories.

And they're still blood-suckers, right?

If we always keep vampires as one step above zombies, thinking monsters who want blood, what fun is that?

I have no argument with that. What I argue with is saying that because it's myth you can make it *anything* you want to make it. You, of course, can, but readers read such things, and give writers money for it because they expect the monster to have some key element--an element that makes a vampire a vampire or a werewolf a werewolf. Take away that key, call it a vampire but not, for example, have said vampire need to drink blood or anything akin to that, and you'll lose your readers--and you'll, arguably, no longer have a vampire.

Meyers shows (alas) that one can be pretty cavalier when it comes to playing with the definition (vampires that "sparkle" in the sunlight? oy!), but they still need to drink blood. They're still the undead. They still live forever and have powers beyond mortal kind. They've still got the fangs.

So, by all means, play with the myth. Bram Stoker did. So has every writer and creator of a vampire book or movie since. But let's not pretend that we can do *anything* we want to do and still be able to call these vampires. There is a definition for what a vampire is, and if we call our monsters that, then readers will expect to see something like it. That's the deal we make with them. And if we don't keep it, they'll won't read us. They'll read someone who gives them the vampire that drinks blood, not this something that we're calling a vampire that isn't.

 

[sr71plt]

And they're still blood-suckers, right?

Right, but they are doing other things while they are sucking blood and their victims are just loving it to death.

You don't really speak for what all readers want, though, right?

 

[Stella_Omega]

My experience is that if the readers want smut, you give them smut and they kinda don't mind if it's served up in a vampire-shaped dish.

If they want vampires that do smutty things though-- you want to service the vampire geeks pretty carefully.

That's just the way I've seen it happen most often.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Yeah, well when one is raised (and at one point made a living) on comic books, I get my hair up when the shit sucks. And of course Biel alone makes it more watchable then Twilight.

I was very proud however, to note that both my daughters shake their heads in disgust and talk about the sissy vampires in that and all the other Tween vampire shit. Guess I instilled something in them.

You young people don't know what comic book are or were.

Superman, Batman, The Justice League, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Spiderman, Beetle Bailey, Dick Tracy, Bugs Bunny...now those were comics.

The crap they pump out now a days are horror shows on paper.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

*pout*

What if we LIKE horror stories on paper?

 

[jdnunyer]

What if we LIKE horror stories on paper?

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[lovecraft68]

You young people don't know what comic book are or were.

Superman, Batman, The Justice League, Wonder Woman, Captain America, Spiderman, Beetle Bailey, Dick Tracy, Bugs Bunny...now those were comics.

The crap they pump out now a days are horror shows on paper.

Well you're right but not that they're crap but that kids don't read comics anymore it's just the movies and video games

Marvel and DC also don't do anything knew have not in years it is reboot after reboot.

Oh and by the the wasy thanks for the "kid' remark. Nice to be in my early 40/s and considered young. Personally the only new comics I read are a couple of horror titles put out by small companies who actually to come up with new things.

My personal favorites are anything 60's Marvel when they were new and kicking the crap out of DC and the original EC comics from the 50's before Wertham's Seduction of the innocent shut then down.

 

[jdnunyer]

I think Vertigo puts out some good genre fiction. Or had been doing so for a while. Most of the better series have wrapped up. And I haven't been keeping up with the new ones as much. But Sandman, Lucifer, Preacher, and John Constantine: Hellblazer, at their best, could be pretty damn good, IMHO.

I read Fables for a while, but started to lose interest. Neat idea. Not so crazy about the execution.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

When did this become a comic book discussion?

No, really... I'm curious...

 

[lovecraft68]

I think Vertigo puts out some good genre fiction. Or had been doing so for a while. Most of the better series have wrapped up. And I haven't been keeping up with the new ones as much. But Sandman, Lucifer, Preacher, and John Constantine: Hellblazer, at their best, could be pretty damn good, IMHO.

I read Fables for a while, but started to lose interest. Neat idea. Not so crazy about the execution.

Yes Vertigo is damn good which is why it is a DC offshoot away from their continuity. Alan Moore was really the father of Vertigo. When he took over Swamp thing he got it kicked out of the comics code and DC said we're selling so who cares? Moore revolutionized the comic industry and Swamp thing was before Watchmen.

If you liked Fables read Zenescope's Grimm Fairy Tales they are excellent and out in TPB because the early issues are pricey.

 

[lovecraft68]

No, really... I'm curious...

Because modern vampires are so dull they can't even hold onto their own thread!

But if you want I'll crossover!

Steve Niles 30 days of night IDW comics. Truly evil badass blood suckers.

 

[jdnunyer]

If you liked Fables read Zenescope's Grimm Fairy Tales they are excellent and out in TPB because the early issues are pricey.

I'll check that out. Thanks for the suggestion!

</nerdjacking>

 

[lovecraft68]

Okay now that my geek is coming completely out. Here is one of my shining moments. Me with Comic legend Bernie Wrightson. One of the creators of Swamp thing and DC's best horror artist. My idol from the time I could read a comic.

 

[jdnunyer]

Pretty cool, LC.

 

[lovecraft68]

Pretty cool, LC.

Thanks. One more. The staff of the now defunct Shadowland comics. 2003 to 2008 (RIP)

Far left is Tom the guy who ran the store until I got there from my day job (ran the store and worked fulltime for 5 years, it got old quick) kevin who ran all the card game tournaments so i wouldn't kill the punk kids that played them.

I am of course far right. The cute little Goth wanna bee is my youngest daughter who helped run the show on the weekends, then of course the Mrs. (kitkat88 here on lit) and the Creature from the Black lagoon had a sign on it that said complaint department because you would get a better reaction from him than the rest of us.

 

[JimmyHartley]

Well, yeah, you do have a point, it is a little annoying that a lot of people are writing about the same thing, but really?
You expect that just because you find it annoying people are going to stop?
Who the hell are you? The high Ruler of Earth?
People will get caught up in crazes, sure it's unoriginal but you're not going to change it, no use in whining about it.
Also, if you want Werewolf fiction, write it yourself!
I've noticed an increased amount of werewolf stories, you sure you're not part of a new annoying craze of badly written stories?

 

[Cruel2BKind]

It is my god-given right to...

--ignore pricks like who just posted above me
--Complain about whatever the hell I want
--Be unashamed of myself
--Be slightly ashamed of myself
--To ignore my first god-given right and lock myself in my room to cry myself to sleep.
*sob*

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Well you're right but not that they're crap but that kids don't read comics anymore it's just the movies and video games

Marvel and DC also don't do anything knew have not in years it is reboot after reboot.

Oh and by the the wasy thanks for the "kid' remark. Nice to be in my early 40/s and considered young. Personally the only new comics I read are a couple of horror titles put out by small companies who actually to come up with new things.

My personal favorites are anything 60's Marvel when they were new and kicking the crap out of DC and the original EC comics from the 50's before Wertham's Seduction of the innocent shut then down.

When you're "talking" with someone in their sixties...40 is a kid...my daughter is 40, she's still a kid.