Lesbian incest!

[Etoile]

yes, you should have. it sounds like bullshit to me as well.

I wasn't gonna say anything, but...

 

[barebacknubianf]

yes, you should have. it sounds like bullshit to me as well.

Why? I've never fooled around with a female relative and I wouldn't want to. But I'm sure it does happen somewhere in the world sometimes. As far as sexual practices go, there's nothing new under the sun.

In any case, even if you don't believe in these stories, why bother spoiling other people's fun by saying so? Especially seeing as they aren't harming anybody and everybody (in theory) is an adult here...

 

[killallhippies]

Why? I've never fooled around with a female relative and I wouldn't want to. But I'm sure it does happen somewhere in the world sometimes. As far as sexual practices go, there's nothing new under the sun.

In any case, even if you don't believe in these stories, why bother spoiling other people's fun by saying so? Especially seeing as they aren't harming anybody and everybody (in theory) is an adult here...

because fucking with people like this isn't fun.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

It's so WRONG!

You are sick and perverted and I love you for it!
Roxanne

 

[Mike260]

It's so wrong!

You are sick and perverted and I love you for it!
Roxanne

You win Roxanne.

In my book, the best, most twisted, first post ever!

Very hot.

 

[Brinnie]

Not Lying!

I bewieve you.

 

[GuitarRocker]

I find nothing wrong with incest. As long as you're doing it legally, there should be no problem. If incest is bothersome to people, ignore it.

I'd have sex with a relative if the opportunity comes up....as long as it's a legal age...

I think incest is just fun sexual experimentation. That's all it is really. I don't see what the big deal of incest is.

 

[Mike260]

I find nothing wrong with incest. As long as you're doing it legally, there should be no problem. If incest is bothersome to people, ignore it.

I'd have sex with a relative if the opportunity comes up....as long as it's a legal age...

I think incest is just fun sexual experimentation. That's all it is really. I don't see what the big deal of incest is.

Wait until you're a parent, and see if you still feel that way.

 

[GuitarRocker]

If I become a parent, I wouldn't care if my kids experiment incest as long as they are 18 or older. When kids are 18 or older, let them do what they want.

 

[Etoile]

Incest would become a problem if there were a risk of birth defect should a child be born from the union. That would probably take more than one generation of incest, though - maybe a couple of generations - so I doubt it would be a problem. The rest of the taboo is societally-created.

 

[killallhippies]

Incest would become a problem if there were a risk of birth defect should a child be born from the union. That would probably take more than one generation of incest, though - maybe a couple of generations - so I doubt it would be a problem. The rest of the taboo is societally-created.

so is the taboo against murder.

 

[Etoile]

so is the taboo against murder.

Maybe, but murder is non-consensual and hurts another person. If it's a societal taboo, it is for good reason. Incest, on the other hand, doesn't harm others. I would also venture that suicide is an appropriate taboo, because it is a rare suicide that has no impact on anyone - despite what suicidal people may believe, there are friends, co-workers, acquaintances, family members, neighbors, etc. who are impacted by the death. But then again, some people who are against the idea of suicide feel that assisted suicide by someone who is already near death is less taboo.

Edit: I should mention that it is consensual incest that doesn't hurt anyone else. Sexual abuse is a whole different ballgame.

 

[Mike260]

Maybe, but murder is non-consensual and hurts another person. If it's a societal taboo, it is for good reason. Incest, on the other hand, doesn't harm others. I would also venture that suicide is an appropriate taboo, because it is a rare suicide that has no impact on anyone - despite what suicidal people may believe, there are friends, co-workers, acquaintances, family members, neighbors, etc. who are impacted by the death. But then again, some people who are against the idea of suicide feel that assisted suicide by someone who is already near death is less taboo.

Edit: I should mention that it is consensual incest that doesn't hurt anyone else. Sexual abuse is a whole different ballgame.

Just because an act is consensual, doesn't mean no one gets hurt. I find it hard to imagine that, when a 20 year old has sex with her mother, both aren't somehow harmed. Our parents are always our parents. Having sex with them blurs too many lines. I think all of us, even well into adulthood, want to be able to look to our mothers and fathers as the protectors they were when we were small children. Even more, they are the people we hope will help us define our rules for orderly and wholesome living. Making them kinky sex partners (and incest with parents is always kinky) profoundly undermines their roles as dependable nurturers.

Moreover, speaking as a middle aged man, just because you turn 18, or 20, doesn't mean you suddenly become an adult. Especially if you are acting out sexually with your parents. I would say that a person doing that is probably even more in need of parental limit setting.

That said, it's a great fantasy. But an awful reality.

 

[Etoile]

Just because an act is consensual, doesn't mean no one gets hurt. I find it hard to imagine that, when a 20 year old has sex with her mother, both aren't somehow harmed. Our parents are always our parents. Having sex with them blurs too many lines. I think all of us, even well into adulthood, want to be able to look to our mothers and fathers as the protectors they were when we were small children. Even more, they are the people we hope will help us define our rules for orderly and wholesome living. Making them kinky sex partners (and incest with parents is always kinky) profoundly undermines their roles as dependable nurturers.

Ah, but that's a perspective influenced by our society. Whether or not both mother and daughter are harmed is entirely subjective, but it's their opinion that matters. You may think it's harmful, but it's up to them whether or not they feel harmed.

 

[killallhippies]

Ah, but that's a perspective influenced by our society. Whether or not both mother and daughter are harmed is entirely subjective, but it's their opinion that matters. You may think it's harmful, but it's up to them whether or not they feel harmed.

i just can't agree with this statement. while it would be nice to think their opinion is the only one that matters it's simply not true. maybe if they existed in a world made up solely of themselves and their morals, but within society that is just impossible. you can't just pretend that society and its rules have no meaning. society exists and is real and therefore it can't be ignored. you can try to change the rules if you want to, but until you do those rules are still there and they will continue to influence you in ways you can't always control.


and that last line just makes me think of the black knight sketch in the holy grail.


anyway, whether you like it or not, we are herd animals and the opinion of the herd has meaning and power. ignore it at your own peril.

 

[killallhippies]

also, the things that that statement potentially justifies is frightening.

 

[Mike260]

Ah, but that's a perspective influenced by our society. Whether or not both mother and daughter are harmed is entirely subjective, but it's their opinion that matters. You may think it's harmful, but it's up to them whether or not they feel harmed.

No. No. No.

The issue isn't whether or not they think they're harmed. Whatever they think, they're harmed.

Children of all ages need their parents to guide them and set stable examples for them. In order to offer this, the parents need to keep some distance between their own needs and the needs of their children.

The moment you go to bed with someone, that distance vanishes. The moment you arch your back, spread your legs, and say "I need you to fuck me," you profoundly relinquish your standing as a safe harbor in a potential storm. You're no longer a parent. You are a moaning woman begging your child to make you cum.

And I'll also conjecture that, if it is your daughter you're asking to hold you, caress you and fuck you in the darkened night, your sexual yearning is coming from a very sad and lonely place. No child should be asked to quench that yearning. That desperate neediness.

And even more than that, no child should ever be asked to join a parent in that lonely, tortuous place that mixes deep sadness and sexual ecstacy.

Etoile, I know you're going to say I'm being presumptuous here. But I don't think so. I think this is, in fact, a charitable picture that likely leaves out the emotional coerciveness that pervades many of these relationships.

 

[Lust2Learn]

Presumtious?

No. No. No.



The moment you go to bed with someone, that distance vanishes. The moment you arch your back, spread your legs, and say "I need you to fuck me," you profoundly relinquish your standing as a safe harbor in a potential storm. You're no longer a parent. You are a moaning woman begging your child to make you cum.

And I'll also conjecture that, if it is your daughter you're asking to hold you, caress you and fuck you in the darkened night, your sexual yearning is coming from a very sad and lonely place. No child should be asked to quench that yearning. That desperate neediness.

And even more than that, no child should ever be asked to join a parent in that lonely, tortuous place that mixes deep sadness and sexual ecstacy.

Etoile, I know you're going to say I'm being presumptuous here. But I don't think so. I think this is, in fact, a charitable picture that likely leaves out the emotional coerciveness that pervades many of these relationships.

First, the original post was about LESBIAN INCEST so let's factor that in. Secondly, my situation was explained as me a 30+ year old woman and her mother. She did indeed want me to hold her, caress her and fuck her in the darkened night. I was more than pleased to quench that yearning and she was and is pleased to have had it quenched.

As for your prseumptions about incest generally, I would say that the emotional relationship between the two women may be different in every situation and the emotional need may indeed be felt by both. However, I would not assume to judge everyone by my circumstance nor do I think that you should judge everyone by your .. oh that's right you do not have any experience in lesbian incest!

 

[Etoile]

The issue isn't whether or not they think they're harmed. Whatever they think, they're harmed.

Again, this is your belief. You think they have been harmed. It is by your standards of harm that you are judging them, not their own. I'm not saying they haven't been harmed - I cannot pass such broad judgment - but I do see you putting your own beliefs on others and that's what I'm arguing.

And I'll also conjecture that, if it is your daughter you're asking to hold you, caress you and fuck you in the darkened night, your sexual yearning is coming from a very sad and lonely place. No child should be asked to quench that yearning. That desperate neediness.

Whoa, wait a minute. If it is your daughter? What on earth are you implying about lesbian incest vs. heterosexual incest? A mother wanting her daughter is more sad and lonely than a mother wanting her son? I don't think that's what you meant, so please correct my misunderstanding.

And even more than that, no child should ever be asked to join a parent in that lonely, tortuous place that mixes deep sadness and sexual ecstacy.

My only comment to this is that it is not always the parent who does the soliciting.

 

[Etoile]

By the way, I'd like to go on record as saying that I'm playing the devil's advocate here.

 

[Mike260]

A few things:

1) Etoile-- By "your daugher" I meant "one's daughter." Please understand that I wasn't trying to personalize the discussion. Sorry if you were offended. As well, I didn't mean to imply that a mother wanting her daughter is more sad than a mother wanting her son. I referred to lesbian incest because that's the theme of the thread.

2) Etoile-- I'm saying that by anyone's standards both people are being harmed in a parent-child incestual relationship. I'm saying this is a psychologically damaging event in which people wind up emotionally and psychologically weaker-- anxious, depressed, emotionally isolated. That kind of thing. You could certainly argue that these sorts of conditions don't ensue from incestual relationships. But, clearly, these conditions are forms of damage.

3) Etoile and Lust2Learn-- I don't think it is relevant whether it is the parent or the child who does the soliciting. Whatever the age of the child, it is the parent's responsibility to do the right thing. My kids want to do all sorts of things that are bad for them. But if I allow them to do those things, I am at fault. Obviously, that is true in my case (I'm in my 40's and my kids are young). I'm arguing, however, that similar dynamics of authority ought operate even if the parent is 50 and the child is 30 years old.

4) Lust2Learn-- I am making a broad generalization here. I think incest between parents and children is a harmful thing in all forms. I think it undermines what the parent should bring to the relationship. That doesn't mean that such a relationship can't be emotionally nurturing and sexually rewarding. However, I do believe that, on balance, sexual relationships between parents and children are overwhelmingly bad.

5) Lust2Learn-- I'm going to ask you to resist the kind of personal sniping you exercised at the end if your post. You hurt my feelings. Look, it must be very difficult to tell such a personal story and then have someone take a critical view of it. I hope you understand that I'm just contributing to the forum and have no desire to attack you personally. In fact, I think it takes a lot of courage to be so up front about your life. And, as well, though I really disagree with what you're doing, it sounds as if your family is not only close, but a group of good friends.

 

[Etoile]

I didn't think you'd meant me personally - no worries there. And thank you for clarifying what you meant.

You've acknowledged, though, what I was trying to point out. You know that you are generalizing and that there might be exceptions to it. That was what I was going for.

 

[Etoile]

One other question for you, Mike260. You have expressed your thoughts on mother/daughter incest, but we haven't heard anything about aunt/neice or sister/sister or cousin/cousin. May I ask for your thoughts on these?

 

[killallhippies]

sister/sister is hot. everyone knows that.

 

[Leolover711]

First of all, let ME say that in our culture, I am with the crowd that is asolutley against pedophilia.

HOwever, I wish to point out, in support of Etoile's position, that in some Southeast Pacific cultures, caregivers be they mothers, aunts, etc. bring comfort to their babies by sucking their little penises. And upon reaching puberty it is usually an aunt or an uncle that initiates the young man or woman sexually so that the young one's forst experience is a good one. Culturally, it would be abnormal for that not to happen.