Learning patience as a writer

[Not2Pervy]

I’ve been writing on here for almost two years, and although I’ve always known my stories could be better if I let them marinate for awhile before revising and submitting, I’ve never had the patience to do that. I might let them sit overnight before a last pass revision.

Now I’ve written a story for an upcoming challenge. Submissions aren’t open yet, so I’ve been forced to let it sit, which is leading to more careful and considered revision, not to mention totally new wrinkles to add in that I didn’t think of before.

My question for the group is, how long did it take you to learn to be patient with your stories? How long do you let them marinate in the revision process?

None of us are getting paid for this, so the incentive structure seems biased in favor of the quick submission to get that rush of sharing it and waiting for feedback.

 

[SimonDoom]

I'm still not that patient. When I'm done with a story, my inclination is to publish it ASAP and move on to another story rather than let it sit and think about it to get it just right.

I don't feel a strong need to seek perfection at Literotica because a) I see this as a good opportunity to test one's writing skills, and b) I don't see a lot of concern for perfection here.

 

[yowser]

It's likely just a matter of perspective and comparison experiences (and congratulations on waiting - there are some advantages to patience.)

In the real world of publishing, be it articles (months) or books (a year or more), seeing your work appear in public feels like forever. Here, a few days seems minor in comparison, but the vetting, with some exceptions, is deliberate and mostly predictable.

 

[stonedinstilletos]

I’m still in the process of learning to take my time. Really I only started to on this one WIP that I have. I didn’t want it to suffer from some of the problems I noticed in my stories after they were published. So I was able to get a couple of people do edting reads of them to offer suggestions. One of them caught a pretty big issue in it that I’ve been working to correct (if life would let me have some time). I think it comes when you feel ready to allow your work to be critiqued by others that you start to develop patience. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

On Literotica, I post as soon as a story is "finished", but that extends beyond the writing process.

Proof-reading by beta readers, editing, revisions, and then listening to the audio version of the story all come between the completion of the writing, and acceptance of a "finished" story. This can take from a few hours to several weeks depending upon the scope of work involved.

 

[Voboy]

My solution for this problem is to NOT have a "revision process." I write it, read it through once for continuity and minor errors, and then it's done.

I'll very frequently write contest or challenge entries WELL in advance, because that's when my muse feels like writing them. So those obviously sit for weeks or months before it's time to post them, but I don't spend that time revising them. I spend that time writing new stories. The completed ones just... sit. Waiting.

ETA: almost forgot to actually answer the OP's question, lol. I didn't have to "learn" patience; the thrill of publishing a story here is the same whether I post something I finished three days before, or something I finished three months before. There've been many occasions when I've completely forgotten about contest entries I've had finished for awhile, only to pleasantly surprise myself by finding them when it's time to submit.

 

[HordHolm]

I find being able to switch between stories helpful, so that I end up moving away from something for a 'period of time' (flexible), and then I'm able to come back to it with fresh eyes. It isn't perfect, but it helps me.

 

[KeithD]

I'm a spontaneous writer. That said, my stories do normally sit. I publish them first to the marketplace normally--or, rather, my publisher does on his schedule. I thus see them again with fresh eyes sometime after they've been edited, and I make changes then, usually expanding them a bit. And then sometime later--sometimes three years later--I get around to putting them on Internet sites like Literotica. Then they get another review/work over. But I haven't mulled them very long before including them in an anthology to go to the publisher.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I’ve been writing on here for almost two years, and although I’ve always known my stories could be better if I let them marinate for awhile before revising and submitting, I’ve never had the patience to do that. I might let them sit overnight before a last pass revision.

Now I’ve written a story for an upcoming challenge. Submissions aren’t open yet, so I’ve been forced to let it sit, which is leading to more careful and considered revision, not to mention totally new wrinkles to add in that I didn’t think of before.

My question for the group is, how long did it take you to learn to be patient with your stories? How long do you let them marinate in the revision process?

None of us are getting paid for this, so the incentive structure seems biased in favor of the quick submission to get that rush of sharing it and waiting for feedback.

Like @SimonDoom, I have zero patience. I’ve regretted this impulse from time to time, then that’s what the edit process is for, right?

I’m usually just way too excited to get my latest masterpiece / puellile crap (delete as applicable) out there.

Emily

 

[luv2custrip]

Like @SimonDoom, I have zero patience. I’ve regretted this impulse from time to time, then that’s what the edit process is for, right?

I’m usually just way too excited to get my latest masterpiece / puellile crap (delete as applicable) out there.

Emily

My stories come out in a torrent. They used aren’t that bad. I know experienced writers who think I’m crazy but that’s how I roll.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

I don't have a problem taking my time. My latest story(non 750 word) sat in my pending folder for just over a year as I read and reread it, changing and adding things, until I felt it was ready. I currently have four pending and four dozen in progress. I bounce back and forth to whichever catches my fancy. It works for me.

 

[EmilyMiller]

I don't have a problem taking my time. My latest story(non 750 word) sat in my pending folder for just over a year as I read and reread it, changing and adding things, until I felt it was ready. I currently have four pending and four dozen in progress. I bounce back and forth to whichever catches my fancy. It works for me.

Not a big fan of edging

 

[pink_silk_glove]

My question for the group is, how long did it take you to learn to be patient with your stories? How long do you let them marinate in the revision process?

It's always been fairly easy for me. I've never been comfortable with revealing works in progress. When I was little my Mom would come by and try to look over my shoulder "What are you drawing?" and I would hunch forward and cover the paper.

When you read a story, the last thing that you think about is the time and effort that the author put into it. You only care about the reading experience. So as an author I am always keenly aware that it is not about my effort, it is about my result. My goal is always to write something that I am satisfied with the result, something that if I open the file 20 years later I will still be satisfied with the result. I don't want to read it back years later and say "Damn, this scene is half-assed, I really missed an opportunity here," or "Damn, this dialogue is corny," or something. Don't get me wrong, writing takes effort, but it is only a means to an end. That end is the result.

If your draft is done and you're jonesing to post early, then put it to the test. What is more important to you, the instant gratification or the result? Then remember that there's an extra gratification that comes with a satisfying result that is better than the instant stuff - at least for me. And also, that instant gratification can still be there, just delayed, if you take the time to edit and do it right.

If you want to write at the next level, when you finish your draft and think that you're done, you're not done. Editing is almost half of writing. If you don't do read throughs and edits, and then read through, edit and proof your edits, you're missing out tons. This is why you really should never do the write-a-chapter-post-a-chapter model. You are literally killing your editing process and making your story on average about 30% less good than it could be.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Once I've finished the audio read-through, it's done and I submit it. But having said that. My way of writing might be a little different than most. I work three or four days a week. 12-hour shifts. So no writing at all during that time, but I am thinking about it. So my first day off I do a re-read of the entire story to date, and add any details I thought of that week. Most revisions happen at that time so by the time I've finished the story, it's been through half a dozen (or more) creative passes. After that, I do a final read-through, and then an audio read-through, and then it's done.

 

[Seadog777]

I'm still learning patience as a person.

 

[TheRedChamber]

It varies.

Some stories just feel finished and ready to be put out quickly. These are usually the shorter ones - often fun but not that deep.

For others, I have beta readers and that obviously slows things down and gives some extra perspective. If a story comes back with a lot of feedback I'll often leave it for a few months before coming back to it - sometimes pushing it out ignoring all the feedback I've been given, or else waiting for the necessary changes to coalesce in my mind.

 

[ElectricBlue]

If you want to write at the next level, when you finish your draft and think that you're done, you're not done. Editing is almost half of writing. If you don't do read throughs and edits, and then read through, edit and proof your edits, you're missing out tons.

For you, maybe, but that's not a universal rule.

I'm a stream of consciousness writer, with maybe 95% of my prose written final, written raw. I know I'm unusual in that - my subconscious must do all the work for me - but if I edited edited edited the way most here seem to, the life in my prose would die. I'd die with it.

My stories do okay.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I'm very patient with my Lit related writing. I let them marinate, or work them over in the editing phase, for as long as I need/want to. Sometimes it's fast - a week from inception to publish. Other times it's taken months. It's primarily a hobby to me, so I approach it like a hobby, relishing the art of it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

For you, maybe, but that's not a universal rule.

I'm a stream of consciousness writer, with maybe 95% of my prose written final, written raw. I know I'm unusual in that - my subconscious must do all the work for me - but if I edited edited edited the way most here seem to, the life in my prose would die. I'd die with it.

My stories do okay.

We're all stream of consciousness writers in some way. It doesn't matter how much you brainstorm and pre-plot. When you actually start fleshing things out word-for-word it is a stream of consciousness. You can't avoid it. I always have to go back and tighten up what my stream of consciousness put down, vertically integrate and satisfy Chekhov and all that. If you only have to edit 5% then your stream of consciousness is light years better than mine. Ignore me. You don't need my help.

 

[Voboy]

For you, maybe, but that's not a universal rule.

I'm a stream of consciousness writer, with maybe 95% of my prose written final, written raw. I know I'm unusual in that - my subconscious must do all the work for me - but if I edited edited edited the way most here seem to, the life in my prose would die. I'd die with it.

My stories do okay.

Same.

Comments that claim a lack of editing and re-editing and re-re-editing are "making your story on average about 30% less good than it could be" make zero sense. It's just pulling numbers out of the air.

Some people edit obsessively. Others don't. There's little profit in making any kind of overarching pronouncement that one is better than the other, even if that pronouncement includes made-up numbers.

 

[Djmac1031]

I've definitely learned patience over time.

And I've found editing, letting it sit, and re-editing has vastly improved my story telling.

It's also slowed it down considerably, but I'm okay with that.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Same.

Comments that claim a lack of editing and re-editing and re-re-editing are "making your story on average about 30% less good than it could be" make zero sense. It's just pulling numbers out of the air.

Some people edit obsessively. Others don't. There's little profit in making any kind of overarching pronouncement that one is better than the other, even if that pronouncement includes made-up numbers.

You can address me by name. I'm right here and can see you and I'm not afraid.

If you're so good that you don't have to edit then lit sure is lucky to have you.

30% is not out of thin air. In fact I would say that it's a low estimate. Depending on the story I spend somewhere between 30 and 50 % of my time editing and revising what I have written and it always makes it significantly better. I'm not talking about a word choice here or there or fluffing up a description or two. I'm talking about overhauling entire scenes that already read very well but need to be changed to fit the plot better or to paint a character in a more accurate light. If you can nail 95% of that right off the end of your pen then I guess that I'm just out of my league and should find another 'hobby'.

I also have read several highly esteemed writers here, with contest wins and red Hs up the ying yang, some are very talented but also read like they could have used some serious editing and heavy beta reading.

 

[Voboy]

I also have read several highly esteemed writers here, with contest wins and red Hs up the ying yang, some are very talented but also read like they could have used some serious editing and heavy beta reading.

Then you're more than welcome not to read them. Trust me, nobody is begging you to do so.

That's the point: you can choose what's right for you, others can choose what's right for them. You're not universally correct just because you say you are. Regardless of what your "numbers," which you've invented, seem to suggest.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Like @SimonDoom, I have zero patience. I’ve regretted this impulse from time to time, then that’s what the edit process is for, right?

I’m usually just way too excited to get my latest masterpiece / puellile crap (delete as applicable) out there.

Emily

I feel that I should clarify the above.

I do read back each section as I write it. I periodically read the whole thing from the beginning.

I share sections as I write them with @Djmac1031 (and vice versa) and get the benefit of his input.

I listen to 3-4K word chunks in the car commuting. I catch typos, repetition, and poor phraseology that way. When I’m at a final draft, I try to listen all the way through again.

For longer / more complex pieces, I get input from betas. So it’s not like I just throw it together.

But what I have never done is leave a final draft to marinate and come back to it in a month. If I’ve done all the above, I publish.

I also seldom rip out and rewrite. For some reason, I seem able to get a high percentage of what I want first go. Maybe 80-85%.

I do on occasion go back and revise earlier sections to fit better with later. But that’s before I get to a final draft.

Emily

 

[ElectricBlue]

If you can nail 95% of that right off the end of your pen then I guess that I'm just out of my league and should find another 'hobby'.

We're not saying that at all. What I'm saying is: you shouldn't make universal statements based only on your approach to writing. Other writers have completely different styles and approaches which are equally legitimate and effective. One is not better than other, all they are is different, that's all.

Most in this forum will put their hands up and say, "Yep, I'm a plotter, a planner, a character sheeter, a multiple go around editor, I let it sit," and so on - but a smaller group say, "Nope, that's not me, I don't do any of that." Yet our stories still "work", they attract and move audiences, they get reactions, they get people saying, "I like your work."

Newbies often come here and ask, how should I write? The answer is always, "Your way - here's how I do it, as frame of reference. You might be similar, you might not. Other's do it differently - see over here -----> Pink_Silk_Glove does it a completely different way, that obviously works for them."

But to say, "If you want to reach the next level, you gotta spend half your time editing" isn't helpful for those writers who don't write that way. That's the only gripe I've got with your authoritative statements. You're assuming we all write the same way, when we don't.