Krafft-Ebbing

CharleyH

Curioser and curiouser
Joined
May 7, 2003
Posts
16,771
Seriously, did this guy know anything about fetish or sadism and especially masochism at all? Did he know anything about sexuality? Or was it all mac and cheese just like Kellogg and cornflakes? :) :devil: ( some will know what I refer to) :kiss:
 
Charlus, he was a Victorian scientist (which I presume you know). Rather avant-garde for his times. What exactly are you asking?

Perdita Sacher-Masoch ;)
 
perdita said:
Charlus, he was a Victorian scientist (which I presume you know). Rather avant-garde for his times. What exactly are you asking?

Perdita Sacher-Masoch ;)

Yes P, I do know he 'was', and thank you for asking. :D Why do we believe his askewed theories about sexuality - he misread Masoch, after all? :)

edit: MY edited QUESTION IS FOR LATER :D
 
CharleyH said:
Yes P, I do know he 'was', and thank you for asking. :D Why do we believe his askewed theories about sexuality - he misread Masoch, after all? :) And where do we go from here in fetish AND bdsm?
Well outside creationists and intelligent design advocates I don't know anyone who espouses K-E as truth. He did well for his time and the study of sexuality has progressed. Who reads Masoch anyway except out of a historical curiosity.

Perdita
 
CharleyH said:
Seriously, did this guy know anything about fetish or sadism and especially masochism at all? Did he know anything about sexuality?
Well, he was among the first to ask serious questions and do real research. He knew as much as he could understand. Are you putting him down?

Perdita :confused:
 
One of these days Charley is going to start a thread I can contribute to.

But not today. ;)
 
perdita said:
What exactly are you asking?

Perdita Sacher-Masoch ;)

:) Just a Q - P for the horse as promised if he did not post a Q about his reference or a question to KE. I will wait for questions :)
 
CharleyH said:
:) Just a Q - P for the horse as promised if he did not post a Q about his reference or a question to KE. I will wait for questions :)
Gd grf. There should be a way to let people know a thread is limited to club members only.

P. :kiss:
 
perdita said:
Well outside creationists and intelligent design advocates I don't know anyone who espouses K-E as truth. He did well for his time and the study of sexuality has progressed. Who reads Masoch anyway except out of a historical curiosity.

Perdita
Masoch, that poor sap! What a funny and tragic tale. What a movie that could be!

Charley, which of Kraft-Ebbing's theories are still espoused?
 
perdita said:
Who reads Masoch anyway except out of a historical curiosity.

Perdita

Everyone reads Sade out of historical curiosity and misreads Masoch as defined by KE. (Distracted right now apologies)
 
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CharleyH said:
Everyone reads Sade out of historical curiosity and misreads Masoch as defined by KE.
I read De Sade looking for erotica and was utterly dissapointed. I read Masoch- by that time- out of historical curiosity... I didn't find much erotic in him either....
 
Stella_Omega said:
I read De Sade looking for erotica and was utterly dissapointed. I read Masoch- by that time- out of historical curiosity... I didn't find much erotic in him either....

Read both, and Sade was a yawn - Masoch was romantic, his wife was interesting. My question was about Kraft-Ebing did he have anything interesting to say (P brought it up - I am goading her for more) :)

EDIT: Why were you disappointed, S.O. ?
 
CharleyH said:
Everyone reads Sade out of historical curiosity and misreads Masoch as defined by KE. (Distracted right now apologies)
What a crock, Charlus. I know NO ONE who read Sade out of historical curiosity. Thirty-some years ago he was de rigeur on campuses; any erotickle effects were gravy ;) .

What decade are you trapped in? I'll see if Stella wants to join me in rescuing you.

P. :kiss:
 
perdita said:
What a crock, Charlus. I know NO ONE who read Sade out of historical curiosity. Thirty-some years ago he was de rigeur on campuses; any erotickle effects were gravy ;) .

What decade are you trapped in? I'll see if Stella wants to join me in rescuing you.

P. :kiss:
Jim Dandy to the rescue! :catroar:

Masoch's wife was amazingly uninteresting- if that's what you mean...
 
Stella_Omega said:
Masoch's wife was amazingly uninteresting- if that's what you mean...
Hey, Jim. If only she'd had better taste in shoes, eh?

Purrdita :p
 
perdita said:
Hey, Jim. If only she'd had better taste in shoes, eh?

Purrdita :p
red come-fuck-me's would have looked good on her!

she went along with someone else's joke, right? although one account I've read claims that she wrote those letters to him herself.
And then she married him. And then she said... nuh-uh, no way am I going to play with you.
thumbs down! I say!
If ever a man tried honestly to communicate his desires, Masoch did. AND HE WAS IGNORED! She ignored his open communicatin before and after their marriage.
Fuck the bitch, she made him bitterly unhappy. And herself for that matter. And it wasn't HIS fault- for once, it wasn't the man's fault.
 
Stella_Omega said:
red come-fuck-me's would have looked good on her!

she went along with someone else's joke, right? although one account I've read claims that she wrote those letters to him herself.
And then she married him. And then she said... nuh-uh, no way am I going to play with you.
thumbs down! I say!
If ever a man tried honestly to communicate his desires, Masoch did. AND HE WAS IGNORED! She ignored his open communicatin before and after their marriage.
Fuck the bitch, she made him bitterly unhappy. And herself for that matter. And it wasn't HIS fault- for once, it wasn't the man's fault.
That would have made an excellent footnote on an academic paper. Send it to the MLA.

Perdita
 
I don't remember Krafft Ebbing as being that bad, esp. for his time. Somewhat too forensically oriented, i.e., to sex crimes and criminals.
He does somewhat think that 'deviation' is connected to antisocial tendencies or criminality-- pretty much what most people (on the street, not at enlightened Literotica forums) think now.

Masoch, I've heard has some merit as a novelist; he does write well, and even now can be read for 'romanticized' submission fantasy. No one accuses Sade of being much of a novelist; too much an 'idea man'--characters make speeches.

Masoch has some admirers over in the BDSM forum. Helped shape the 'erotic slave' idea. Sade, though, has had great impact on a number of artists and writers.

What exactly is the question, Charley?
 
perdita said:
That would have made an excellent footnote on an academic paper. Send it to the MLA.

Perdita
Yes, I took extra care to get the jargon right :rolleyes:

I swear I once thought I could read and understand ANYTHING that was written in english- untill a friend asked me to go over her philosphy thesis... that shit is wack.
 
perdita said:
What a crock, Charlus. I know NO ONE who read Sade out of historical curiosity. Thirty-some years ago he was de rigeur on campuses; any erotickle effects were gravy ;) .

What decade are you trapped in? I'll see if Stella wants to join me in rescuing you.

P. :kiss:

I read Sade in a theoretical (AKA historical - crap author he was- how could one read differently?) context :| Did anyone understand Masoch, or why KE (Kraft-Ebing) decided he was what we know as masochism today? (holding tongue) :D
 
CharleyH said:
I read Sade in a theoretical (AKA historical - crap author he was- how could one read differently?) context :| Did anyone understand Masoch, or why KE (Kraft-Ebing) decided he was what we know as masochism today? (holding tongue) :D
Well, Masoch was the first author to deliniate his masochistic desires in print. And his submissive desires, too.
I''m sure that for amny readers, the shock of seeing that someone else actually felt what they were feeling- how could he not become the icon?

but whatever KE thought back in his day- and his day was long ago, especially by academic standards- "What we know as masochism today" has come a lo-o-ong way from poor little Victor.
Academics have nothing to do with it, really...
 
Stella_Omega said:
Fuck the bitch, she made him bitterly unhappy. And herself for that matter. And it wasn't HIS fault- for once, it wasn't the man's fault.
It happens. After all, a broken clock is right twice a day.

What exactly is the question, Charley?
We've been wondering the same thing. It's kind of a fun quest, in a, pardon the term "masochistic" sort of way.

Best I can tell, the score is 0-0-0 and heading for overtime.

Rumple Foreskin :cool:
 
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