Erotica as Commentary

[Flybynite1892]

All right y'all, I figured I'd just ask, since I've been thinking about this all weekend. Do you ever - or do you think it's possible - for good erotica to also be good commentary or satire on society? If so, what does that look like?

I started writing here back in January when I was kind of stuck in my real life. I was in a relationship that wasn't working for me, and I was real stressed with real life responsibilities and I just needed a space to slip away for a bit. That was really all it was supposed to be, just my own silly little escape.

I'm in a totally different place now, and I feel like I've learned a lot since I started writing here. I also think about how hard I had to fight to be OK with my own sexuality and to even get to a point where I could write about it without shame. Sometimes I want to bring some of that story and that fight in. I guess I think there's a lot of value in writing the thing you wish you could've read years ago.

My stories have always been pretty silly, and I think it's been pretty clear I wasn't aiming to say something about the world in what I wrote. I was just sad and unfulfilled, and I felt stuck. Now though...I don't know? I think I might have some stories in me that would really qualify as erotica - and serve that purpose - but that also might have something more to say.

Y'all have been a joy to read for the last few months; I think you have lots of interesting things to say about writing. That's why I'm curious...what do you think about this?

 

[TheLobster]

Do you ever - or do you think it's possible - for good erotica to also be good commentary or satire on society? If so, what does that look like?

I wouldn't go as far as to call them 'good,' but some of my stories do poke and jab at various aspects of contemporary society and culture. Most of the time it's (IMO) quite subtle; the most blatant example is definitely in my Nude Day story but it didn't seem to have hurt the reception much at all.

Even so, I think you have to be pretty careful about it, likely more so than about any author tracts and commentary you'd put into mainstream literature. Outside of Non-Erotic and maybe Romance, this is a genre that's primarily about titillation, so I'd advise against going too heavy-handed.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Sure, many writers have done that. Although what they did might be defined as "explicit" rather than "erotica." (I don't know how to define either one.)

The late Philip Roth is one example, as is Erica Jong.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Y'all have been a joy to read for the last few months; I think you have lots of interesting things to say about writing. That's why I'm curious...what do you think about this?

I'm inclined to think that, as soon as you get "overt" about having "something to say", to write with a deliberate agenda, something goes out the door.

Better to be more subtle about it, to express your world view gently in everything you write. If you believe it, you don't need a soapbox, you don't need a badge saying, "look at me". If you write who you are, I think people sense it and read with you.

 

[BellaBestia]

Not really too much in recent literature, if it is done it’s very niche very subtle and somewhat academic.
Not impossible tho to do both, sexual titillation and social satire/commentary. De Sade did it. Swinburne did it. I doubt anyone writing for the majority audience here does it, as it’s not as popular as *yawn* yet another incest story.

 

[Flybynite1892]

I'm inclined to think that, as soon as you get "overt" about having "something to say", to write with a deliberate agenda, something goes out the door.

Better to be more subtle about it, to express your world view gently in everything you write. If you believe it, you don't need a soapbox, you don't need a badge saying, "look at me". If you write who you are, I think people sense it and read with you.

I think this is a really good point. If your writing is going to resonate with people, the reasons it resonates are baked into the story. Like a story that is just good in general will have all of those needed ingredients already. We wouldn't think it was a good story otherwise.

 

[intim8]

I'm inclined to think that, as soon as you get "overt" about having "something to say", to write with a deliberate agenda, something goes out the door.

This. Once you openly have an agenda, the story suffers. 99.99% of the time.

Show. Do. Not. Tell.

Demonstrate those aspects of society you want to comment on, as an integral part of a good story. The light you show them in is all the commentary you need, and even that needs to be subtle and subordinate to the story. It is very rare that a great story has been told that overtly comments on society or politics, either from the narrator or the characters.

The only exception is when a character makes a quick observation on something completely tangential to the story, and even that usually needs to be done as a humorous or wry observation that isn't dwelt on. My current WIP has a situation where an 18 year old on his summer break can't go to bars because everywhere in the US the drinking age is 21. An older friend can go, but has to leave the younger friend behind, because of "stupid laws". They never mention it again, and it's one tiny exchange in a story that is currently 40K+ words, and counting.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

I think it works if you start with the characters and/or story, and let the deeper message come out through them.

Whenever anyone wants to write Works With A Message, the story tends to suffer. I'm sure it has been done well, but aside from Animal Farm, I can only think of examples where it hasn't worked.

Some of my readers say they appreciate the deeper messages in some of my stories - Gas Station Guy and Wheelchair Bound? in particular (feminism and what is queer anyway, in the former, disability awareness and activism in the latter), but I didn't start by trying to do that - I just had a couple hot images and a couple lines of plot, and the stories grew from there.

 

[Flybynite1892]

Not really too much in recent literature, if it is done it’s very niche very subtle and somewhat academic.
Not impossible tho to do both, sexual titillation and social satire/commentary. De Sade did it. Swinburne did it. I doubt anyone writing for the majority audience here does it, as it’s not as popular as *yawn* yet another incest story.

Yeah, and I guess Leopold von Sacher-Masoch did in it in "Venus in Furs" too. Interesting thought.

 

[NotWise]

Stories written with a literary agenda require the author to focus on that agenda, It takes an effort, and that effort is likely to subtract from the effort you put into the erotic character of the story. I wouldn't say that you can't write a story that does both well, but it would take some work.

 

[SimonDoom]

All right y'all, I figured I'd just ask, since I've been thinking about this all weekend. Do you ever - or do you think it's possible - for good erotica to also be good commentary or satire on society? If so, what does that look like?

Yes, I think this all the time. I agree with others that if you're too didactic or obvious about it, it can spoil the pure erotic pleasure. But if it's subtle it can enhance it.

For me, erotica is MORE erotic if it's got an edge to it. And one way of creating edge is through conflict, which can take many forms: person against society; person against religion; person against the law or moral customs; person against person.

For instance, the more strongly a particular society forbids public nudity, the more erotic public nudity is. An exhibitionism story can be both a fun romp AND a commentary about the silliness of fear and aversion toward the naked human body. You don't have to hit the reader over the head with it.

 

[Flybynite1892]

but I didn't start by trying to do that - I just had a couple hot images and a couple lines of plot, and the stories grew from there.

I think this is how it went for me, and what made me ask the question. I was writing some weird thing set in the Old West in the mountains and I had a character say a line or two about how weird it is to be bisexual. I didn't plan that, but it happened. I wanted to chase that a little bit, but I also still wanted it to be a fun, hot kind of story. Idk. I think it's always going to be very case-by-case, but that's why I was curious on everyone's thoughts.

 

[RetroFan]

I do this quite a lot of the time.

For example in one of my stories earlier this year about the Titanic, a message in a bottle is thrown overboard and floats at sea for 112 years until found by a family in Devonport, Tasmania in April 2024 in the story's epilogue, with the characters in the main part of the story obviously long dead by now. The Australian family's eldest daughter is a girl named Poppy, who at 18 is a social media junkie always on her phone. Poppy I used to not only to show the differences between 1912 and 2024, but also as a satirical take on young people today shallowly living their lives online through social media and their lack of conception of how things used to be different, such as Poppy's dumb questions about the Titanic which she at first thinks was 'like some fictional ship from like some really old movie from the 1990s.' and her excitement at being 'famous' when the find becomes a headline news story.

 

[BellaBestia]

Addendum to my post above I remembered a current published author I’ve read recently who does write erotica with social commentary, feminist issues mainly, and she’s Canadian to boot:
Tamara Faith Berger Wiki here
I’ve read her collection of short stories “Little Cat” and while the social commentary does not detract from the pure eroticism of the stories they do merit second or third deeper readings to fully appreciate.

 

[MyBareTorso]

Erotic stories can most certainly intelligently and incisively comment on and satirise elements of modern society, without question...just not mine!

 

[Voboy]

Of course.

Best to keep it subtle. The goal is to create levels of enjoyment for your readers. A story is never just one thing; it can simultaneously be a stroke story, a horror story, a satire, and a romance. These things are possible, if it's done skilfully.

The trick is to appeal to readers who enjoy some or all of those levels. You want a one-handed keyboard masturbator to be able to enjoy the same story an amateur historian enjoys. That's doable, but only with a light hand.

It's always best to keep clear of heavy politics. This is Literotica, not Politerotica. Or Literolitics.

 

[Bramblethorn]

All right y'all, I figured I'd just ask, since I've been thinking about this all weekend. Do you ever - or do you think it's possible - for good erotica to also be good commentary or satire on society? If so, what does that look like?

Sure. It's something I've aimed at in several of my stories here, though I try not to get too heavy-handed with the commentary.

"The Floggings Will Continue..." is tongue-in-cheek office farce, but also a vehicle for some more serious noodling about how manipulative people can abuse the idea of consent.

"Anjali's Red Scarf" is about autism and also about how power dynamics can shift in a relationship as two people grow and change.

I'm in a totally different place now, and I feel like I've learned a lot since I started writing here. I also think about how hard I had to fight to be OK with my own sexuality and to even get to a point where I could write about it without shame. Sometimes I want to bring some of that story and that fight in. I guess I think there's a lot of value in writing the thing you wish you could've read years ago.

Definitely. It can be worth doing that for your own sake (I learned things about myself in writing "Red Scarf") but also, there will be other people at different stages in that same journey who read it, and they can get a lot out of it.

 

[AG31]

I'm inclined to think that, as soon as you get "overt" about having "something to say", to write with a deliberate agenda, something goes out the door.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[Kadyia]

Do you ever - or do you think it's possible - for good erotica to also be good commentary or satire on society?

I generally agree with the points already made. To me, the answer is absolutely.

Juvenal's satires which if not totally pornographic were crude and vulgarly sexual. When you think about Anne Desclos writing the Story of O in the 50s, given the expectations of women in that period, it can't help but be commentary of some sort on society. I think her novel was sparked by her lover saying a woman couldn't write a pornographic novel of that sort.


Fanny Hill was kind of the Bridgertons on steroids and a nice exploration of the economic reality of a woman in those days. Prostitution was her option. Delta of Venus was great and again explores the role of a woman. And Anne Rice's Sleep Beauty series.

And as mentioned above, Venus in Flys.

I think I read too much old, classical erotica, lol.

Electric Blue made the strongest point for me. You have to be subtle. I don't want to get political, but if something is obviously a message piece, it fails as "good" in either sense.

 

[ronde]

I'm inclined to think that, as soon as you get "overt" about having "something to say", to write with a deliberate agenda, something goes out the door.

I inject comments on society in many of my stories, but they're comments made by one character as his or her personal view. As I know from experience, attempting to make any overt statements about the state of current society, even though the statement is based on known and generally accepted fact, will likely result in the rejection of the story.

 

[THBGato]

All right y'all, I figured I'd just ask, since I've been thinking about this all weekend. Do you ever - or do you think it's possible - for good erotica to also be good commentary or satire on society? If so, what does that look like?

Yes.

I wouldn't say satire, but I've read some excellent stories here that, aside from being sexy and romantic, explore (without being preachy) a range of issues. Here's a very small sample:

Disability - as already mentioned (by it's so good it deserves another shout out) "wheelchair bound" by @Kumquatqueen plus "wheels in motion" by @BrokenSpokes

Addiction - "the portland saga" by @AwkwardMD and "the journey" by BrokenSpokes

Neurodiversity - "Layfayette Hills" by AwkwardMD (and, perhaps my own "Love is a Place" goes here, as neurodiversity is at the very centre of the plot)

Race relations - again, "the journey" by BrokenSpokes, and it's also a theme I've explored in "Eve & Lucy" and "Desire & Duende". Many of the stories by @Cagivagurl (e.g. it started with a car crash) also explore this in a NZ context in a way I find very insightful.

Plus, of course, issues around homophobia, coming out, LGBTQ+ rights are endlessly explored, often very well and in a manner that makes the background tapestry and tensions to any given LS story that much richer. I've got a whole list of those here: https://www.literotica.com/authors/THBGato/lists?listid=20154336

 

[WeShallUnclench]

My on take on the thread question is "yes, absolutely". For one thing, I always prefer if the author of any type of story lets it shine through that they are reflecting on the real world, or even just pop culture. With erotica getting into... interpersonal relationships in a... deep manner, that's if anything even more inviting.

However, big caveat - it has to match, or at the very least be unobtrusive. Otherwise, you get a pussy dryer/boner killer and misshandling of serious subjects in one package.

I just read a story where the author's aim was clearly to have cute men have sex and say sweet things to one another. They also picked a mind control ability for the protagonist, which they didn't really develop at all, in its moral and emotional implications. Which might still have worked out, as an amoral fantasy framing device for a story that's all about sex and nothing more. Except then one character gets very nearly torn apart by their homophobic family in a harrowing scene. Bottom line, the story struggled to find a good balance between the horny/fluffy stuff and the very dark and serious stuff, and both aspects suffered for it.

That's not to single out that author or story, rather to illustrate what I mean when I say the combination can be tricky.

 

[madelinemasoch]

Yes. As I said in another thread recently, the mere fact of taking eroticism as your subject matter in writing means that themes about how the sexes relate to one another are always implied, regardless of your conscious intentions as an author. There are always signs in the writing of a particular view or another. Even the way a given character views things can be utilized by the author to form an ulterior message. There aren't any ways around this. That being said, I think it's best to try to align your unconscious idea-production processes with your conscious opinions, intentions, and viewpoints when you're writing so you can produce something really great and potentially get a message across through the stories. A writer should be deliberate and decisive about this but also unassuming and guided by the ideas themselves at the same time. Knowing that we are always inevitably giving the reader some sort of message, we should come to know what that message is and express it through the work accordingly.
I'm trying to do a story that's more of a direct social commentary right now. After reading the other poster's comments on this thread, I'm wondering if what I've got so far may be too heavy-handed.

They were creatures of a broken world, beings of a scarred cultural landscape, warped and distended where all standards had vanished into air. There was once a time when men could provide for their women and themselves. There was once a place for families in America. Such a time and place no longer existed, and this twisted rite was their closest approximation.
She lifted up her right foot expectantly as she counted out the dollars. He met the higher sole of her shoe with his lips and there it was, human connection for a price. All affections had been subsumed beneath the dollar sign, commercialized and advertised to hapless chaps like him as something to be bought and sold. He wondered if one day one would have to pay to breathe air. Still, he was her willing victim.

I think it's ambiguous enough between a more conservative social viewpoint and a more progressive economic one that different readers will connect to it for different reasons, and I don't think in the work I'm just coming out and saying, "I'm a communist who doesn't believe prostitution is authentically liberating." Still wondering if the wording might be too blatant, though.

 

[Voboy]

Yes. As I said in another thread recently, the mere fact of taking eroticism as your subject matter in writing means that themes about how the sexes relate to one another are always implied, regardless of your conscious intentions as an author. There are always signs in the writing of a particular view or another. Even the way a given character views things can be utilized by the author to form an ulterior message. There aren't any ways around this. That being said, I think it's best to try to align your unconscious idea-production processes with your conscious opinions, intentions, and viewpoints when you're writing so you can produce something really great and potentially get a message across through the stories. A writer should be deliberate and decisive about this but also unassuming and guided by the ideas themselves at the same time. Knowing that we are always inevitably giving the reader some sort of message, we should come to know what that message is and express it through the work accordingly.
I'm trying to do a story that's more of a direct social commentary right now. After reading the other poster's comments on this thread, I'm wondering if what I've got so far may be too heavy-handed.

I think it's ambiguous enough between a more conservative social viewpoint and a more progressive economic one that different readers will connect to it for different reasons, and I don't think in the work I'm just coming out and saying, "I'm a communist who doesn't believe prostitution is authentically liberating." Still wondering if the wording might be too blatant, though.

I like this, but personally, I would leave the "America" part unstated; then, I'd construct the narrative in such a way that it could happen anywhere. The best dystopian stuff can be seized on by readers from many countries and backgrounds.

I would make it clear that this is in the future, after some kind of collapse, taking place among the ruins of some once-great culture. Let the reader decide whether it's America, or France, or Japan.

I think that would be an example of the "light touch" I advocate up above.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I like this, but personally, I would leave the "America" part unstated; then, I'd construct the narrative in such a way that it could happen anywhere. The best dystopian stuff can be seized on by readers from many countries and backgrounds.

I would make it clear that this is in the future, after some kind of collapse, taking place among the ruins of some once-great culture. Let the reader decide whether it's America, or France, or Japan.

I think that would be an example of the "light touch" I advocate up above.

I agree. As soon as anyone says "in America" right now, especially with the context given up above, wallop, there's your agenda. It's not subtle.