Developing sexualities.

[TheRedChamber]

This is the second, kind of related, kind of not, thread I'm creating today. The first one was about when it makes sense to retire characters. This one is about how people approach characters who are shifting or developing their sexuality - in this case a movement from heterosexual male to bisexual.

A while back I wrote a story (and follow-up) about two divorced women starting a lesbian relationship. The 'suddenly going gay' was part of the plot, but I did try to build in some suggestion that both characters had at least some interest in women if no actual experience previously. It felt too much of a stretch to have them suddenly decide they could be gay (/bi) two minutes before going to bed with their first woman especially as they were 35/29 respectively. The whole 'hey, I'm gay' stuff is more easy to swallow if both caracters are pushing close to that 18-yo Lit limit...

In my gay male stories, characters are often struggling with their sexuality - coming out of a period of 'trying to be straight' or just giving themselves the opportunity to do something they've always wanted to do.

My current idea is to write a series of stories about a male/female couple where the woman has a specific kink about wanting to watch her man have gay sex in a number of different situations and the man doing this at first reluctantly. I'm still trying to work out the dynamics of the relationship and the beats of the stories, but one thing that is going to need to be nailed down* pretty quickly is the guy's overall sexuality. I definitely don't want a story where the 2 MCs are lying in bed, she says "It'd be hot if you had sex with a man," and he says, "Geez, that's a great idea." I'd also like to avoid an internal narrative which says "My girlfriend wants me to do this, but I've secretly always wanted to do this so...whatevs." Basically the straighter he is to start with, the more fun it's going to be.

(And before anyone says anything, yep, the consent on this thing is going to be a doozy)

The plot at the moment is very cloudy, but I'm imagining a fixed point in the story where he's broken up with his girlfriend (temporarily/permanently IDK), he goes to a club or otherwise straight pick-up spot and strikes out before hitting somewhere gay he's been for a quick hook-up and this being an a-ha moment for him.

So, how do people approach this in their own writing?

(*pun intended)

 

[HordHolm]

I'm currently struggling with my first gay male story. Part of my struggle here is the motivation for an ostensibly hetero guy to find that he's open to a gay encounter (and even a subsequent relationship). There's much more to it, but one of the things I'm finding hard is just how subtle/not subtle I need to make his interest in men before he meets 'the guy'. My own solution has been to a) ensure that he isn't beating himself up over his growing realisation that perhaps his interests lie away from his girlfriend, b) show that he has had idle sexual interest in a man before, but not to the extent that he'd do anything more than fantasise and masturbate, and c) ensure that his awakening is character focussed rather than kink focussed.

And I wish that was the only thing I've been struggling with... But, I will finish this within the next three weeks - it just serves me right for making the story so complex (a partly non-human, coming out, police procedural involving undercover work - the character himself acknowledges that he's lying to somebody - even himself - on at least three different levels). I fear I may have bitten off too much...

 

[THBGato]

In reply to the OP, perhaps have your MC have a background in an all male school, some history of homoeroticism that he enjoyed at the time but has since been taught was shameful?

I think you did a great job with Perfect on Paper (the lesbian story you referred too), so follow that instinct.

Also, maybe if your Male MC has a porn inspired kink of wanting to share his girlfriend with another guy and this is the only way she'll agree to it?

 

[SimonDoom]

This is a challenge, I think, for a straight male writer. I'm working on a gay male story (slowly), and I want it to be from the point of a man having his first gay experience with a somewhat older and very charismatic man. It's a story of seduction. It's tough to do it convincingly, especially if it's clear he's never had an experience of that kind.

You could come up with a scenario that entices him in some way:

Perhaps the wife recently had a lesbian experience and says he owes it to her to be with a man.

Maybe they are both sexually adventurous and they want to try something new.

Maybe she convinces him to do it as a dare.

Perhaps they go somewhere, like an adult resort, to get him in the right mood, and they meet a couple that want to do this too.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This is a challenge, I think, for a straight male writer. I'm working on a gay male story (slowly), and I want it to be from the point of a man having his first gay experience with a somewhat older and very charismatic man. It's a story of seduction. It's tough to do it convincingly, especially if it's clear he's never had an experience of that kind.

I did this years ago with my 4th Floating World story, which I co-wrote with Jason Clearwater, one of my beta readers at the time. We wondered what would happen if my Adam character (wait, what, you have a somewhat older and very charismatic man too?) met his Jesse character (an angsty tormented bi-sexual), and got together. They met in one of Adam's cafes, obviously.

We wrote it turn and turn about, a thousand words each, lobbed over the fence - here ya go, write off that. Neither of us knew where it would go, but 20,600 words later, here's how it ended:

When the coffee was made, she turned to Vanessa. "Coffee at Adam's usual table. You tell him." You understand. Vanessa took the coffee across to Jesse and her shadow fell across the table. He looked up.

She gently placed her fingers on his shoulder, and anyone else would have seen the gesture of a friendly waitress. "He doesn't come here often, not anymore."

Don't wait.

* * *

Jesse looked up at her, full of a melancholy he didn't himself understand, and saw kindness.

"Hey." She smiled.

Her fingers on his shoulder, no judgment in her eyes.

It'd been so long since Jesse had seen that look. And now, for the first time in a very long time, he didn't drop his head, didn't look away.

"I finish in an hour."

A slow smile spread across Jesse's face. "Me too."

What?? Fucking. Idiot.

But Vanessa just laughed. "Cute."

She walked away, her hips swaying in her tight black skirt, and Jesse knew everything was going to be okay.

And here's what someone said about it:

Your story captured the anticipation, the excitement, the vulnerability, and the temporary soft regret I've often imagined I would feel if I ever had the opportunity to make love to another man. It was romantic and taboo at the same time. The detail of the dog walker really made me hard. I would love for a stranger to see me as I kiss the lips of another man and rub our cocks together

 

[TheRedChamber]

You could come up with a scenario that entices him in some way:

Weirdly you've hit pretty much on all of my cliff notes for the original couple version of this story.

Perhaps the wife recently had a lesbian experience and says he owes it to her to be with a man.

This is kind of built into the story male-female-female story I'm writing at the moment. The female MC has mentioned that if he finds it hot her getting it on with another women, she finds it equally hot the other way round.

Maybe they are both sexually adventurous and they want to try something new.

A factor in practically all of these stories.

Maybe she convinces him to do it as a dare.

My notes say 'Male MC loses bet and has to attend a gay sauna for an hour.'

Perhaps they go somewhere, like an adult resort, to get him in the right mood, and they meet a couple that want to do this too.

This could work as I've got 2k words of them arriving at a nudist colony and have absolutely no idea where to go next (once they'd taken their clothes off and I was suddenly all out of ideas.

 

[TheRedChamber]

In reply to the OP, perhaps have your MC have a background in an all male school, some history of homoeroticism that he enjoyed at the time but has since been taught was shameful?

This is kind of what I don't want to do. It makes more sense in a lot of ways, but I also want the pressure to be external to the character - something he's forced into doing, to a greater extent, to keep his girlfriend happy (that's just the way the story seems in my head at the moment)

I think you did a great job with Perfect on Paper (the lesbian story you referred too), so follow that instinct.

Thanks.

Also, maybe if your Male MC has a porn inspired kink of wanting to share his girlfriend with another guy and this is the only way she'll agree to it?

I will probably end up writing a version of 'the reason why the husband is so keen on getting his wife a bull is because he want's to be fucked himself' I don't think this is that story yet though.

 

[SimonDoom]

This could work as I've got 2k words of them arriving at a nudist colony and have absolutely no idea where to go next (once they'd taken their clothes off and I was suddenly all out of ideas.

Here's an idea: They're mildly adventurous and they try an adult resort for the first time, and they meet a far more adventurous and experienced couple, and the man in the other couple is very experienced and helps convince your character to give it a try after the ladies get it on together.

 

[AG31]

This is the second, kind of related, kind of not, thread I'm creating today. The first one was about when it makes sense to retire characters. This one is about how people approach characters who are shifting or developing their sexuality - in this case a movement from heterosexual male to bisexual.

A while back I wrote a story (and follow-up) about two divorced women starting a lesbian relationship. The 'suddenly going gay' was part of the plot, but I did try to build in some suggestion that both characters had at least some interest in women if no actual experience previously. It felt too much of a stretch to have them suddenly decide they could be gay (/bi) two minutes before going to bed with their first woman especially as they were 35/29 respectively. The whole 'hey, I'm gay' stuff is more easy to swallow if both caracters are pushing close to that 18-yo Lit limit...

In my gay male stories, characters are often struggling with their sexuality - coming out of a period of 'trying to be straight' or just giving themselves the opportunity to do something they've always wanted to do.

My current idea is to write a series of stories about a male/female couple where the woman has a specific kink about wanting to watch her man have gay sex in a number of different situations and the man doing this at first reluctantly. I'm still trying to work out the dynamics of the relationship and the beats of the stories, but one thing that is going to need to be nailed down* pretty quickly is the guy's overall sexuality. I definitely don't want a story where the 2 MCs are lying in bed, she says "It'd be hot if you had sex with a man," and he says, "Geez, that's a great idea." I'd also like to avoid an internal narrative which says "My girlfriend wants me to do this, but I've secretly always wanted to do this so...whatevs." Basically the straighter he is to start with, the more fun it's going to be.

(And before anyone says anything, yep, the consent on this thing is going to be a doozy)

The plot at the moment is very cloudy, but I'm imagining a fixed point in the story where he's broken up with his girlfriend (temporarily/permanently IDK), he goes to a club or otherwise straight pick-up spot and strikes out before hitting somewhere gay he's been for a quick hook-up and this being an a-ha moment for him.

So, how do people approach this in their own writing?

(*pun intended)

Will you notify us (or me) when this story gets published?

 

[TheRedChamber]

Will you notify us (or me) when this story gets published?

Will do, but this is potentially a way away at the moment assuming something of this nature ever gets written at all. I was trying to go down my draft list and fit things together in a way that makes sense.

 

[AG31]

Will do, but this is potentially a way away at the moment assuming something of this nature ever gets written at all. I was trying to go down my draft list and fit things together in a way that makes sense.

At the risk of being accused of self promotion... This makes me think of a story I wrote about a straight man's first gay experience. This was a one-off, as my MCs are always heterosexual. The thing that made this easy for me was that it was not character driven. It focussed solely on the physical aspects of the encounter. I don't know where it came from (all my stories are reports of my fantasies), but I wonder if you're setting the bar to high (or too off to the side) to want the initial idea to be character driven?

I think of Pete Buttigieg's telling some interviewer that he began going to gay environments because he wanted to find someone with which to have a relationship. The physical awareness preceded the interpersonal relationship.

 

[MrPixel]

I've been dabbling with straight-to-bi-male transitions in my polyamory series. I try not to get too heavy with it, although in one story there is a gay character with a "beard" wife who exerts slight pressure on the straight MMC to explore, knowing that there is light M-M contact between the MMC and a poly partner in the context of the MFMF-etc. polycule. The MMC declines this offer external to the poly lovers.

Now I do lean a lot on the F-F in the poly and swinger contexts in this series. It's a bit trope-y, but I do occasionally discuss the bi-lesbian elements where the ladies get it on as a matter of course, infrequently protesting about the imbalance, badgering the men about "Why us and not you guys, huh? We want to see one of you suck cock for a change!"

 

[Bramblethorn]

This is the second, kind of related, kind of not, thread I'm creating today. The first one was about when it makes sense to retire characters. This one is about how people approach characters who are shifting or developing their sexuality - in this case a movement from heterosexual male to bisexual.

A while back I wrote a story (and follow-up) about two divorced women starting a lesbian relationship. The 'suddenly going gay' was part of the plot, but I did try to build in some suggestion that both characters had at least some interest in women if no actual experience previously. It felt too much of a stretch to have them suddenly decide they could be gay (/bi) two minutes before going to bed with their first woman especially as they were 35/29 respectively. The whole 'hey, I'm gay' stuff is more easy to swallow if both caracters are pushing close to that 18-yo Lit limit...

"Late-in-life lesbian" is a pretty well known thing. A lot of women think of themselves as straight, do the whole husband/white picket fence bit, and then somewhere around their thirties or older have some kind of queer epiphany. For some it seems to be about feelings that had been present for a long time, but unacknowledged; for others, maybe a genuine shift in their sexuality.

I could easily believe a "huh, guess I'm attracted to women?" from a character that age. How quickly they go from realising it to acting on it is another question, especially if they're already in a relationship.

 

[TheRedChamber]

"Late-in-life lesbian" is a pretty well known thing. A lot of women think of themselves as straight, do the whole husband/white picket fence bit, and then somewhere around their thirties or older have some kind of queer epiphany.

Absolutely. When I wrote my set of lesbian stories I used this (Intro to Lateblooming) fairly extensively to get my thinking straight (well, er...)

A

For some it seems to be about feelings that had been present for a long time, but unacknowledged

B

for others, maybe a genuine shift in their sexuality.

The problem or maybe skill is getting either A or B authentically in your story. It seemed easier to go with a mild variety of A with my story, the character has been slamming shut these doors most of her life to abide by heteronormatively (she has a failed marriage but I don't go into details with this, nor have my own particular headcanon about it).

B is a little more difficult to portray, I think, but might it might be possible (for me) over a long story/series.

At the moment, I'm trying to get the 'push', 'pull' dynamics for the characters right. If it's essentially a women forcing a man to perform gay acts to satisfy her own kink, how does that affect the shift or awakening on his own side. I'm also trying to work out a relationship where he's not overly subby. It becomes a lot easier, if way more formulaic, if he just does everything she says instantly. Anyway I'll figure it out (or just scrap the whole idea...)

 

[TheRedChamber]

At the risk of being accused of self promotion... This makes me think of a story I wrote about a straight man's first gay experience. This was a one-off, as my MCs are always heterosexual. The thing that made this easy for me was that it was not character driven. It focussed solely on the physical aspects of the encounter. I don't know where it came from (all my stories are reports of my fantasies), but I wonder if you're setting the bar to high (or too off to the side) to want the initial idea to be character driven?

I think of Pete Buttigieg's telling some interviewer that he began going to gay environments because he wanted to find someone with which to have a relationship. The physical awareness preceded the interpersonal relationship.

It is, at the moment, all very high concept. I'm interested in mirroring the way a lot of guys want to have a MFF threesome and have their partners engage in 'performative lesbianism'. Essentially, at the start he's doing it for her.

I have written a whole bunch of gay first times which focus on the physical act (and, although I haven't for a while) I probably will keep writing them.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Here's an idea: They're mildly adventurous and they try an adult resort for the first time, and they meet a far more adventurous and experienced couple, and the man in the other couple is very experienced and helps convince your character to give it a try after the ladies get it on together.

That could work. As an alternative, I'm thinking gay couple in the room next door, nocturnal noises and them wandering around naked during the day, gets the female character all hot and bothered and leads to the emergance of this kink over a few nights.

 

[AG31]

It is, at the moment, all very high concept. I'm interested in mirroring the way a lot of guys want to have a MFF threesome and have their partners engage in 'performative lesbianism'. Essentially, at the start he's doing it for her.

I have written a whole bunch of gay first times which focus on the physical act (and, although I haven't for a while) I probably will keep writing them.

Re several posts up thread, I think the physical first fits much more comfortably with a male character than with a female character. And conversely (inversely? In the reverse?)

 

[TheRedChamber]

Re several posts up thread, I think the physical first fits much more comfortably with a male character than with a female character. And conversely (inversely? In the reverse?)

I'm not 100% sure what you are trying to say here (Possibly I wasn't too coherent about my story myself).

What I mean is that I've written a few stories where the character 'has always been curious' and is now having their first experience. These aren't really too difficult to write because the inner narrative is fairly straightforward - 'I always wanted to, now I am'.

This one is more about the female characters pushing him/egging him into a series of homosexual acts because she thinks its hot. He's doing it mainly to please here, but is also going to find enjoyment in it.

I've gone over the drafts I had and I think I've got a fairly clear path through three or four stories that get me their fairly organically and without making it an overly 'subby guy does what he's told' story (Not that it's problem if that's someone's jam).