Kitty Play

[Stella_Omega]

I'm really over this thread, I'm crabby and tired today. But...
<----- puts on "cross" me av.

No "need", WANT and both.
I am what I am no matter how many times you try to tell me otherwise.

And I stick to my earlier statement about how you don't get it unless you've had an actual kitty.


That's all I have to say, now someone pet me please

Notice that utterly gratuitous "please"

 

[JMohegan]

Except dogs being submissive, one would expect the people who like dogs to be the dominants? And with cats, the opposites - the stereotypical "cat lady" is practically a servant to her cats and tolerates behavior that would be abusive if cats were smart enough to be doing that kind of thing on purpose. When the role of cat-owner is taken by a man in a cartoon, such as Garfield's owner Jon, or Simon the owner of Simon's Cat, they are generally rather submissive men.

Me, I identify with a cat in that I am an independent person who likes being pampered. On the other hand I don't identify as either a sub or a domme, I don't want either to take power and responsibility for others or to cede power and responsibility for myself to someone else.


Yeah, that.

I understand the temptation to reach that conclusion about dog vs. cat owners, but I think Netzach's done a good job dispelling the 'real cat owners must be subservient to their pets' myth - stereotypical cat ladies notwithstanding.

As for real dogs, they're actually not wired submissive. What they are is wired to exist in a pack in which one member of the team is in charge. If they sense weakness, inconsistency, or inability to maintain control in the one who purports to be leading, they'll try to take over that spot. And this, regrettably, happens a lot with humans. Which is why you frequently have dogs who are unnecessarily aggressive, neurotic, or simply a pain in the ass.

It's true that a dog with a competent human owner will be an obedient, dedicated, faithful friend 'till the day he dies. But that loyalty is a function of the owner's behavior, not a trait that manifests itself without a team member in charge.

 

[JMohegan]

I'm really over this thread, I'm crabby and tired today. But...
<----- puts on "cross" me av.

No "need", WANT and both.
I am what I am no matter how many times you try to tell me otherwise.

And I stick to my earlier statement about how you don't get it unless you've had an actual kitty.


That's all I have to say, now someone pet me please

Hopefully you're not too cross to admit the humor in the fact that you've concluded your post with a polite command!

You said you ID as a switch, so rock on with your switchy self.

 

[Loverskitten]

Notice that utterly gratuitous "please"

http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/Loverskitten/bc30df98.jpg

 

[Stella_Omega]

When a cat says "please" it really means; "Make it so."

Gentlemen, you are forgetting some thins; One is that "a cat person" does not relate to being a cat, but to someone who prefers the company of cats as pets. Likewise, "a dog person" is someone who enjoys the pet dynamics of dogs.

Second, we are not talking about the actual animals here, but about humans who let's face it, pick and choose the behaviors they want to mimic.

Thirdly, this is puppy play in it's original form;
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YHhTzJG2L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
There isn't much coddling going on. Those are working dogs!

 

[JMohegan]

Thirdly, this is puppy play in it's original form;
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YHhTzJG2L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
There isn't much coddling going on. Those are working dogs!

I don't know whether to find that hilarious or deeply disturbing.

I realize that humans can (and do) eroticize pretty much everything, but the idea of human/dog sexuality - even in role play form - is just so far removed from anything I consider arousing that I have trouble processing the image.

 

[intothewoods]

I don't know - maybe it's my mood but this thread is cracking me up. I think it's just funny that of the topics that get us all riled up, dogs versus cats is kind of high up on the list.

 

[JMohegan]

I don't know - maybe it's my mood but this thread is cracking me up. I think it's just funny that of the topics that get us all riled up, dogs versus cats is kind of high up on the list.

As far as I can tell, only one person on this thread is riled - and it's not an issue of c vs. d.

I'm sincerely glad you're amused, though! What's your reaction to Stella's photo?

 

[Stella_Omega]

I don't know whether to find that hilarious or deeply disturbing.

I realize that humans can (and do) eroticize pretty much everything, but the idea of human/dog sexuality - even in role play form - is just so far removed from anything I consider arousing that I have trouble processing the image.

And of course, you needn't ever eroticise animal play if you don't want to!

I just wanted to point out that as a practice that is sheltered under this wide umbrella we call BDSM-- it is a sex kink for many people, and a relationship kink for many other people-- sometimes the same people. Not always in the same ways.

 

[JMohegan]

And of course, you needn't ever eroticise animal play if you don't want to!

I just wanted to point out that as a practice that is sheltered under this wide umbrella we call BDSM-- it is a sex kink for many people, and a relationship kink for many other people-- sometimes the same people. Not always in the same ways.

It's fascinating, no question!

I'd be interested to talk to the guys in that photo, because you're right, it does seem to be a very different dynamic from the cutesy, pet-me, cuddle-me, pet play that people usually write about here. I wonder what the root of the dynamic might be.

 

[intothewoods]

As far as I can tell, only one person on this thread is riled - and it's not an issue of c vs. d.

I'm sincerely glad you're amused, though! What's your reaction to Stella's photo?

Ok, not riled, but folks around here (myself included) seem to have strong and detailed opinions about cats and dogs. I love it.

I look at puppy and kitty play as fun and light-hearted. I get Mr. S. Leather emails (bought a latex dress from Mrs. S and just never removed myself from the list - I mean, there's nothing attractive to me about gay men, obviously! ahem ahem - whistles innocently) so I've seen "worse" in my inbox. It's so costume-ish to me that I think role play rather than anything to do with actual animals.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's fascinating, no question!

I'd be interested to talk to the guys in that photo, because you're right, it does seem to be a very different dynamic from the cutesy, pet-me, cuddle-me, pet play that people usually write about here. I wonder what the root of the dynamic might be.

Depends on the couple, of course. Some dogs are very aggressive, some not so much. Some are highly sexual, some are asexual. Some owners beat and kick their dogs, some pamper them. Some get training, some get cages, lots of them get laid

I cannot imagine being either a pup or an owner without sex, but that's true about everything for me after all
This bit of fiction draws on my own puppyplay experiences at IML in the late 90's;
http://stellaomega.com/woof-camp/

 

[intothewoods]

It's fascinating, no question!

I'd be interested to talk to the guys in that photo, because you're right, it does seem to be a very different dynamic from the cutesy, pet-me, cuddle-me, pet play that people usually write about here. I wonder what the root of the dynamic might be.

I like the idea of a guy, curious, intrigued, asking questions of a couple...damn JM!

Depends on the couple, of course. Some dogs are very aggressive, some not so much. Some are highly sexual, some are asexual. Some owners beat and kick their dogs, some pamper them. Some get training, some get cages, lots of them get laid

I cannot imagine being either a pup or an owner without sex, but that's true about everything for me after all
This bit of fiction draws on my own puppyplay experiences at IML in the late 90's;
http://stellaomega.com/woof-camp/

I've only seen these relationships at events, and they've always been really over the top silly. Beating and kicking? That kind of blows my mind on the whole thing.

 

[YourCaptor]

The alternative to submissive is not exclusively dominant. There are plenty of people who are not predominantly either submissive or dominant. Let's not confuse "not submissive" with "must be dominant."

Responding to the thread

I have long suspected that adult females who ID as princesses really want to control the proceedings, whether they admit it or not.

I have long suspected the same thing about females who ID as cats.

If you're gonna double down with the cat princess thing, why not just ID as a D-type who likes role play and costumes? Seems like a more straightforward presentation.

 

[YourCaptor]

"Dominant" in a relationship is not defined by size or strength, but rather by the interactive behavior of the parties.

There are actual dog owners who are thoroughly dominated by their yappy little 12 pound pets.

Kittens and lions.

Owner dominated by pet, maybe in a loose sense of the term. Something tells me the owner doesn't give a shit and the dog isn't trying either.

 

[Netzach]

I understand the temptation to reach that conclusion about dog vs. cat owners, but I think Netzach's done a good job dispelling the 'real cat owners must be subservient to their pets' myth - stereotypical cat ladies notwithstanding.

As for real dogs, they're actually not wired submissive. What they are is wired to exist in a pack in which one member of the team is in charge. If they sense weakness, inconsistency, or inability to maintain control in the one who purports to be leading, they'll try to take over that spot. And this, regrettably, happens a lot with humans. Which is why you frequently have dogs who are unnecessarily aggressive, neurotic, or simply a pain in the ass.

It's true that a dog with a competent human owner will be an obedient, dedicated, faithful friend 'till the day he dies. But that loyalty is a function of the owner's behavior, not a trait that manifests itself without a team member in charge.

Agree. One of the things that I always have included in horse or dog play is this simple fact: the animal will do what it wants in the absence of other information. I try to inject this realism. The excitement of ponyplay with a grown-ass man in my mind, should be the fact that if NOT controlled, he's going to roll, run away, or bite or kick. In being a dog, I felt it was completely up to T to figure out what he wanted out of my behavior and only give that when encouraged/made to give that.

It's not about this inherent desire to make happy, whether you're in dog mode or cat mode or not. Furniture will be peed on, or something like that, until the boundaries are made clear. Mainly dog bottoming was a wonderful shot at "stupid space" - stupid in the sense of "can't read, can't talk, has to have information repeated"

For what it's worth my for my dog foray I was a 2 year old saluki. A princess indeed.

 

[JMohegan]

Depends on the couple, of course. Some dogs are very aggressive, some not so much. Some are highly sexual, some are asexual. Some owners beat and kick their dogs, some pamper them. Some get training, some get cages, lots of them get laid

I cannot imagine being either a pup or an owner without sex, but that's true about everything for me after all
This bit of fiction draws on my own puppyplay experiences at IML in the late 90's;
http://stellaomega.com/woof-camp/

Wow, thank you for sharing.

Ollie as puppy reads, to me, as energetic, adorable, and poignant. (The weight of being human line, when Ollie takes off the gloves, was especially good.)

Did Ollie get kicked out? Did you ever finish the story?

 

[sunandshadow]

I don't know whether to find that hilarious or deeply disturbing.

I realize that humans can (and do) eroticize pretty much everything, but the idea of human/dog sexuality - even in role play form - is just so far removed from anything I consider arousing that I have trouble processing the image.

I always thought Spinal Tap's song Bitch School presented a human/dog relationship as an easy-to-relate-to metaphor for a d/s relationship emphasizing discipline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cEmbXNd1lU

But yeah, it's not my personal cup of tea so obviously it doesn't bother me if someone else doesn't find it interesting.

 

[sunandshadow]

I understand the temptation to reach that conclusion about dog vs. cat owners, but I think Netzach's done a good job dispelling the 'real cat owners must be subservient to their pets' myth - stereotypical cat ladies notwithstanding.

As for real dogs, they're actually not wired submissive. What they are is wired to exist in a pack in which one member of the team is in charge. If they sense weakness, inconsistency, or inability to maintain control in the one who purports to be leading, they'll try to take over that spot. And this, regrettably, happens a lot with humans. Which is why you frequently have dogs who are unnecessarily aggressive, neurotic, or simply a pain in the ass.

It's true that a dog with a competent human owner will be an obedient, dedicated, faithful friend 'till the day he dies. But that loyalty is a function of the owner's behavior, not a trait that manifests itself without a team member in charge.

I'm aware that dogs aren't naturally submissive, I meant more that our social stereotype of the ideal well-trained dog is that of a submissive dog, and that people who identify with dogs tend to identify with that easily-moldable playful puppy who becomes a "good dog" or a "well-bred bitch". I have occasionally seen people roleplay as dominant dogs but the idea of "bulls" seems to more successfully occupy that cultural space.

 

[JMohegan]

Agree. One of the things that I always have included in horse or dog play is this simple fact: the animal will do what it wants in the absence of other information. I try to inject this realism. The excitement of ponyplay with a grown-ass man in my mind, should be the fact that if NOT controlled, he's going to roll, run away, or bite or kick. In being a dog, I felt it was completely up to T to figure out what he wanted out of my behavior and only give that when encouraged/made to give that.

It's not about this inherent desire to make happy, whether you're in dog mode or cat mode or not. Furniture will be peed on, or something like that, until the boundaries are made clear. Mainly dog bottoming was a wonderful shot at "stupid space" - stupid in the sense of "can't read, can't talk, has to have information repeated"

For what it's worth my for my dog foray I was a 2 year old saluki. A princess indeed.

Did you wear the long tail, or just imagine it there?

Stella's story helped me understand the freedom of that "stupid space." I can see role playing as the owner for a partner who wanted to bottom that way, even though I don't think I'd find it arousing per se.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wow, thank you for sharing.

Ollie as puppy reads, to me, as energetic, adorable, and poignant. (The weight of being human line, when Ollie takes off the gloves, was especially good.)

Did Ollie get kicked out? Did you ever finish the story?

She didn't get kicked out. She and Steve placed decently high in the competition-- didn't win, since leathermen are not necessarily queer enough to accept a female boy. And then she gets to meet Steve's partner and play two doggies in a more *ahem* intimate space.

I have fragments, but as you know... I, myself, have backed out of transition, and it's been difficult for me to get back into that headspace, so it's harder to write her, also the men. And there are so many characters all clamoring for attention!

For a story that illustrates Netzach's horse theory, this one; Leading To water -- gay male, and also fanfic and also crazy hot.

 

[Netzach]

Did you wear the long tail, or just imagine it there?

Stella's story helped me understand the freedom of that "stupid space." I can see role playing as the owner for a partner who wanted to bottom that way, even though I don't think I'd find it arousing per se.

No, no tail, white corset, mitts. etc. More about my public exposure and brainlessness than about my middling anal receptive skills.

 

[JMohegan]

I always thought Spinal Tap's song Bitch School presented a human/dog relationship as an easy-to-relate-to metaphor for a d/s relationship emphasizing discipline:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cEmbXNd1lU

But yeah, it's not my personal cup of tea so obviously it doesn't bother me if someone else doesn't find it interesting.

Plenty of folks are into the discipline thing, that's true.

As a lifelong dog owner, I would say that discipline is critical in the very beginning of a human/dog relationship, but after that unnecessary. Once the dog accepts you as the team leader it needs, the bond for life is set.

 

[JMohegan]

She didn't get kicked out. She and Steve placed decently high in the competition-- didn't win, since leathermen are not necessarily queer enough to accept a female boy. And then she gets to meet Steve's partner and play two doggies in a more *ahem* intimate space.

I have fragments, but as you know... I, myself, have backed out of transition, and it's been difficult for me to get back into that headspace, so it's harder to write her, also the men. And there are so many characters all clamoring for attention!

For a story that illustrates Netzach's horse theory, this one; Leading To water -- gay male, and also fanfic and also crazy hot.

Thanks for the link. I'm heading to bed, but will read it tomorrow.

Goodnight, all.

 

[Loverskitten]

As far as I can tell, only one person on this thread is riled - and it's not an issue of c vs. d.

I'm sincerely glad you're amused, though! What's your reaction to Stella's photo?

For the record, real life stress put me in the crabby mood. Defending myself from someone who won't "get it" was the icing. Now as far as dogs vs. cats... to me it's apples and oranges and cats win.
(I have both BTW 3dogs 2kitties)
http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/Loverskitten/d858946f.jpg

rats... now those make fucking awesome pets!