Kink vs. Sex vs. Love

[dexwebster]

So there's this guy. He's sweet and smart and geeky and kinky (switch-y, even, mmmhmm), just a little bit perfect for me. The only problem is that he's married. For the moment, anyway. He's currently saving enough money to move out --not in a leaving-her-for-me way, I feel the need to stress: they've separated twice in the past year and a half, and I didn't even meet him until April. I just happened to fall into a very sticky situation.

Now, contrary to what a lot of people at our workplace seem to think, we're not actually shagging like bunnies. We never even had to discuss it: he made a vow, and until it's officially dissolved, he won't break it. Neither one of us ever considered it an option no matter how tempting it was. We have not and will not have sex until they are officially no longer together. Beyond that it gets a little fuzzy.

We usually have night shifts together maybe twice a week, and when we get off at the same time, we'll sit in the parking for a while after close, just being with each other (one of the few times we can). Sunday night we literally sat on the sidewalk for an hour or two, just...cuddling for lack of a better word We talked, touched, kissed a little, played around. He has a penchant for holding me down and tickling me just because he can, then turning around and offering his wrists to me just because he knows I like it. I gave him a back rub (which surprised him, because he couldn't remember a girlfriend ever doing that for him before). We eventually got in our respective cars and drove off in opposite directions. The only time I even see him outside of work is on Saturdays, when I drop him off and pick him up from playing D&D with his friends after I get off work and when we get to his place (usually two or three in the morning) we sit in my car for what's usually a few hours--'til six or seven the past two weeks--doing more of the same, before he goes in to his apartment and his wife.

So we're not fucking, that much we've established. What are we doing?

Are we romantically involved? I'd say yes, just by virtue of our emotional attachment (the L word has been uttered on both sides, we've talked, we've cried). But are we dating? Are we having an affair? How does being kinky affect that? It's such odd territory.

Is him smacking me on the ass or me holding him by the throat worse than it would be for someone else because it's more intimate for us even if we're not doing anything explicitly sexual? Would it somehow be more morally "right" if we held each other but didn't kiss? If we didn't touch at all? We'd still love each other, and that's more...I don't want to say damaging, but that's more transgressive, to me, than any physical act we could participate in. And how we feel is the one part that really can't be helped.

Thoughts? Advice? Comments?

 

[oddity83]

Your in love with a married man(sounds that way to me) You said your romantically linked, as my momma asways said, skating on thin ice with hot skates.


What I think is that if he has been seperated twice in 18 months, he is fair game, maybe he stays with her out of fear of being alone? Just my thoughts.

 

[sojurner]

***Whew***
Ok, been here before. This is my opinion:

I "dated" a guy who was supposedly leaving his wife too. He never did. They were technically seperated but not divorced. I was a sex snack during a 'failing marriage'. Needless to say he went back to his wife and they have kids now, yahda, yahda, yahda...

Still not learning my lesson, I then dated I guy who had just divorced his wife 6 months before I met him. I was a rebound relationship for him. I was the fun little sex break to help him get past the breakup of his marriage.

IMHO, you need to be very careful. I hear that you have very real feelings for him but, he is in a very different place than you are. Please be careful. To him you are the promise of all the things that his marriage is not. With you there is no commitment, no bills, no trouble.

When someone divorces they are starting their life over and need time to be on thier own to sort things out. If you want to have a little fun with him and not expect too much then go for it.

Again, this is my opinion only - you must decide for youself what you feel comfortable doing. Just protect yourself, your heart included.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I'd take a step back if I were you, at least until he moves out. I know you say he is waiting until he saves enough money to move out, but bottom line is he has left twice before, and more importantly, gone back....and if someone really wants out of a relationship, they go and don't hang around saying they neeed to save money first. Perhaps you are something more to him than amusement, but even though you are not having sex, perhaps you are also an ego boost for someone who is not prepared to commit or take responsibility for their own choices and actions but needs some amusement to spark up their otherwise boring life. Does that sound like somone you want to become involved long term with, or the way you want to be treated? You also need to think about whether you could end up in the same position as his present wife if you become his main love interest, or supposedly main interest....most people who have relationships behind their SO's back under the guise of an avalanche of excuses maintain that pattern throughout their life....it is who they are and how they operate.

Catalina

 

[dexwebster]

perhaps you are also an ego boost for someone who is not prepared to commit or take responsibility for their own choices and actions but needs some amusement to spark up their otherwise boring life. Does that sound like somone you want to become involved long term with, or the way you want to be treated?

No, I wouldn't, but in this case I really don't think I am. At the other end of the spectrum, I think responsibility for his actions is what's kept him with her this long. And to be fair, him moving out before was her idea.

I do realize the money thing sounds like a total copout, but NoVA isn't kind to anyone's wallet. I know what he makes, and around here he really couldn't afford to live on his own. He's been talking to some of our coworkers about getting an apartment together, looking around in the shopping complex our restaurant is in for a second job. It's not just something he's talking up and not making any strides towards.

And while it is possible that he could develop a habit of clandestine relationships, it doesn't seem likely, given his history. I mean, he's barely 23 and she was his second girlfriend (the first was when he was 17, so no overlap there). They've only been married a year and a half, and dated for just six months before that. According to him, it was a matter of him being young and naïve and making a stupid mistake; he thought she would change at least a little, and he thought he had more patience than he really did. From what his friends and some of our coworkers who know and have worked with his wife say, it would sound like he'd need it: they unanimously dislike the woman. He seems to fall hard and fast, but not very often (which of course can be it's own complication).


All that said, it's a fine line, giving credence to his very plausible claims and still keeping in mind that things may not work out as well as I'd like. I'm well aware that us being together for real is by no means a foregone conclusion. And much as I love him, it's hell soaking up as much time as I can spend with him knowing it may be all I ever get. That's a whole new kind of masochism.

 

[devils_daughter]

If I were you, I would set an ultimatum. If it's possible at all, then offer to let him move in with you on cheap rent (that you know he can afford) and then offer to help him through divorce. If he won't do it, well, to be blunt hun, you have your answer, he never intends to leave her. If he accepts then you'd seem to have one of those rare married men who means what he says. Until then though, I'd stop all physical intimacy with him. If he truly loves you (yes I know it's a cliche) but he'll wait for you. It's disrespectful to be seen as "the other woman" and even though there's no sex involved that's how you'll be seen to a lot of people. Stop the intimacy and make sure no-one can get nasty by blaming you for the marriage breaking up.

 

[Private_Label]

we'll sit in the parking for a while after close, just being with each other (one of the few times we can). Sunday night we literally sat on the sidewalk for an hour or two, just...cuddling for lack of a better word We talked, touched, kissed a little, played around. He has a penchant for holding me down and tickling me just because he can,...

Are we romantically involved? I'd say yes, just by virtue of our emotional attachment (the L word has been uttered on both sides, we've talked, we've cried). But are we dating? Are we having an affair? How does being kinky affect that? It's such odd territory.

Then you replied to Catalina

And while it is possible that he could develop a habit of clandestine relationships, it doesn't seem likely, given his history

Yet you said in the first message:

The only time I even see him outside of work is on Saturdays, when I drop him off and pick him up from playing D&D with his friends after I get off work and when we get to his place (usually two or three in the morning) we sit in my car for what's usually a few hours

Yes, you are having an affair. Not a sexual one, you are having an emotional affair. You are flirting with a married man, and he is allowing you to continue. If he really meant his vows, he would be in counseling with his wife and not off in the parking lot tickling you. He is fulfilling the letter of his vows by not having intercourse, but he is breaking the spirit of them by using the "L word" with you. You are also getting the "face time" after work that a married person should be spending with their spouse if he wanted to "keep his vows" until he is divorced.


it may not be an ego boost from where you sit, but from where he is, he sees a (young) co-worker who is interested in him.

IF he really wanted to get a divorce, he would have one already and not just be paying lip service to it. If the marriage was that bad, he could probably even get an annulment since they have only been married a couple of years.

NoVA might be expensive, but even so, there are low cost alternatives - Basement apartments in residential housing, living with his parents, anything that would get him out of living with his wife, if he really wanted to get away from her.

I hope things work out for you, but this sounds a lot like he is using you to feel better about what he is doing (or not doing) with his wife.

You know what he makes, if his wife is also working, they would be able to split the cost of a divorce - I don't know what a no-fault costs where you are, but certainly they could find one for under $500, or file the papers themselves if there are no assets (house, car etc.) to divide up.

 

[dexwebster]

I've taken an inordinate amount of time responding to this, but there were major goings on over the weekend.

Jack told his wife he was leaving her Friday night. She tried to kill herself. He pretty much spent the past four or five days either at work or out somewhere with me or at my house--nothing untoward: we literally spent all of Monday and Tuesday cleaning my house and watching DVD's right smack in the middle of my family. We fell asleep on my living floor Monday night in the middle of Singin' in the Rain. He's back at the apartment right now, but yeah, it's pretty darn official that they're separating.

 

[devils_daughter]

I hope his wife is ok but by saying that, I'm not insinuating it's the fault of you and this man that she did, but I've tried to do it myself and I know how bad it feels, both during the attempt and the months after.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I've taken an inordinate amount of time responding to this, but there were major goings on over the weekend.

Jack told his wife he was leaving her Friday night. She tried to kill herself. He pretty much spent the past four or five days either at work or out somewhere with me or at my house--nothing untoward: we literally spent all of Monday and Tuesday cleaning my house and watching DVD's right smack in the middle of my family. We fell asleep on my living floor Monday night in the middle of Singin' in the Rain. He's back at the apartment right now, but yeah, it's pretty darn official that they're separating.

Wish you luck as I have an uncanny feeling you might need it. I am not an advocate for devil's daughter's idea of you practically enabling him to leave by offering him cheap rent etc....seen too many people do the same thing only to find out later they were being used and then left once the person was on their feet and able to go romancing someone else. As non-cool as it may be to some, I am not starry eyed over situations whereby people gain their happiness at the expense of another....if he is finished with the relationship, if he is able to look after himself and not need an excuse or prop, let him do it and find his own feet and way, sort out his own life and mess, and if he still wants to try it with you after it is all settled, at least you know it is you he wants and not just a reason or way to finance his moving on. Personally I think his wife is well rid of him, but understand why she might not be seeing it that clearly right now.

Catalina