Kim's poly/kink thread reinvented ...

[Moochienanu]

Okaaaay ... thanks for your thoughtful advice regarding something that happened two years ago, I guess?

You’re the absolute best.

 

[Moochienanu]

I wanna talk break ups.

As a poly gurl, I’m going through a thing with one of the biggest loves of my life. We have tried to make things work for more than a year, but seem to find ourselves here time and again.

Any thoughts on breaking it with a significant partner?

Kim? Anyone?

 

[KimGordon67]

I wanna talk break ups.

As a poly gurl, I’m going through a thing with one of the biggest loves of my life. We have tried to make things work for more than a year, but seem to find ourselves here time and again.

Any thoughts on breaking it with a significant partner?

Kim? Anyone?

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and admit that it's not going to work out. When me and my ex decided to separate, it was a pretty mutual decision. (In fact, when we're teasing each other now about something one of us does that's a bit annoying, either one of us might say 'This is why I left you' ... neither of us really know who did the 'leaving'.)
My only advice is that, if you really think you can't make it work, then do the breaking up before you hate each other. It's about a thousand times easier if you're still friends ... this was especially the case for us because we had a child and mutual property, so sorting all that out was fairly smooth.
The other thing we did (so clearly the above wasn't my 'only' advice ) was to focus on the good stuff that happened in the relationship, so the preceding 20 years still felt like it had been a good investment. We did some cool shit together, we made an excellent human, and we both left the marriage better off than when we came into it. I'd consider that a win.

 

[Inspirinious]

I wanna talk break ups.

As a poly gurl, I’m going through a thing with one of the biggest loves of my life. We have tried to make things work for more than a year, but seem to find ourselves here time and again.

Any thoughts on breaking it with a significant partner?

Kim? Anyone?

Significant Partner, Biggest Love of my Life, or Spouse -

I don't think it matters how you identify the other person. They were a REALLY BIG part of your heart and your life.

From my own experience, ending a 17 year marriage, it was painful, it was awkward, I kept wondering whether another attempt to reconcile would be successful.

Now, 27 years after that divorce, I realize that we should have known many years earlier, that all those honest attempts to reconcile would be futile. The 17 year marriage should have ended about year 7. We wasted another 10 years trying to make it work. And those were not good years.

I know we kept trying all those years because, for the early years, WE REALLY LOVED each other. Unfortunately that love covered over the underlying problems which we ignored for many years.

I also have reconciled myself to the knowledge that we gave it the best shots we could, again, again, and again. It didn't matter. That relationship just couldn't be fixed.

I wished that I could have seen that much earlier and cut our losses.
But we wanted to try and fix things. And that just dragged out the pain longer.

My advice is this:

1) Be honest with yourself, and with your partner.

2) If you have given all you can to make things work, realize that it will never work, and you have to let go, knowing you gave it your all.

3) It doesn't really matter whether you feel the other person could have or should have tried more. If they couldn't or wouldn't the fact is they didn't. And there is a reason for that. And it won't go away. You can't be responsible for that.

If the two of you have done all these things, and it still doesn't work, for either of you, you have to accept the reality and walk away.
There are other fish in the sea. You have to learn from your experiences. You just have to be wiser in your next selection.

 

[IrisAlthea]

I wanna talk break ups.

As a poly gurl, I’m going through a thing with one of the biggest loves of my life. We have tried to make things work for more than a year, but seem to find ourselves here time and again.

Any thoughts on breaking it with a significant partner?

Kim? Anyone?

I’m sorry!

Having people around who care about you and will support you.
Depending on how out you are about the poly, there can be an exhausting amount of stiff upper lip.
It’s good to know that there is someone who knows and who you can be open about it with.

 

[sweettalk4u]

Okaaaay ... thanks for your thoughtful advice regarding something that happened two years ago, I guess?

You’re very welcome

 

[Moochienanu]

I’m sorry!

Having people around who care about you and will support you.
Depending on how out you are about the poly, there can be an exhausting amount of stiff upper lip.
It’s good to know that there is someone who knows and who you can be open about it with.

This has been the hardest part.

I don’t have many friends physically near me outside of work. I work for a religiously affiliated employer and cannot even mention my poly lifestyle to people there. I haven’t been “out” to see my other acquaintances outside of work since 2020. I’m really feeling the whole ‘I can’t show this here’ thing.

My husband has been great, and so have my online friends/poly friends who have moved away from my area last year… but damn, some days are really rough where I wish I could just tell the truth to the person asking me, “Are you doing okay?”

 

[KimGordon67]

This has been the hardest part.

I don’t have many friends physically near me outside of work. I work for a religiously affiliated employer and cannot even mention my poly lifestyle to people there. I haven’t been “out” to see my other acquaintances outside of work since 2020. I’m really feeling the whole ‘I can’t show this here’ thing.

My husband has been great, and so have my online friends/poly friends who have moved away from my area last year… but damn, some days are really rough where I wish I could just tell the truth to the person asking me, “Are you doing okay?”

Support is so important - I can't believe I forgot about that. Can you call/Skype/whatever the kids do these days your friends. When I was trying to work out WTF was going on with the local guys, I worked out which of my friends really got the situation (everyone was lovely, but mostly they had a version of 'you deserve better than this - just kick him to the kerb', while she understood that my feelings were a bit more complex than this), and talked to her for hours. Luckily ... well, not luckily, but I guess serendipitously ... she was having her own relationship issues, so I could be there for her to lean on as well. I can see that your situation makes this all just a little bit more difficult though - while many of my friends know I'm not monogamous, I'm also not married, so it's a bit easier.

Hang in there. Like everything, it gets better with time.

 

[Inspirinious]

I’m sorry!

Having people around who care about you and will support you.
Depending on how out you are about the poly, there can be an exhausting amount of stiff upper lip.
It’s good to know that there is someone who knows and who you can be open about it with.

This has been the hardest part.

I don’t have many friends physically near me outside of work. I work for a religiously affiliated employer and cannot even mention my poly lifestyle to people there. I haven’t been “out” to see my other acquaintances outside of work since 2020. I’m really feeling the whole ‘I can’t show this here’ thing.

My husband has been great, and so have my online friends/poly friends who have moved away from my area last year… but damn, some days are really rough where I wish I could just tell the truth to the person asking me, “Are you doing okay?”

I was away for a while (trip to grocery story) and I was thinking about my post.

I realized that I forgot something important. I come back to find others have covered this.

So important to have friends and loved ones around you.

I suppose being poly has the advantage that even though you have lost one of your best loves, you still have a loving, supportive husband. But, as you mentioned, you cannot share your grief with all those people who don't know about, or understand your poly relationships. From these non-knowing co-workers and friends, it must be difficult to hide the real truth. {bummer}

Glad you do have your husband and your online friends to be there for you.

 

[IrisAlthea]

This has been the hardest part.

I don’t have many friends physically near me outside of work. I work for a religiously affiliated employer and cannot even mention my poly lifestyle to people there. I haven’t been “out” to see my other acquaintances outside of work since 2020. I’m really feeling the whole ‘I can’t show this here’ thing.

My husband has been great, and so have my online friends/poly friends who have moved away from my area last year… but damn, some days are really rough where I wish I could just tell the truth to the person asking me, “Are you doing okay?”

That kind of environment makes it extra difficult.

Even when people know, they can still be a bit like ”Well but you still have the other/s right”. Makes you wonder if they’d say ”well you still have the other kid/s”.
I mean, in some strange hyper logical way it is better to loose one than all but it hardly nakes loosing one not painfull.
Logical reasoning is helpful for making better decisions, but contrary to what seems to be popular opinion, it doesn’t remove emotions and it is a lousy anodyne.

It’s good to know there are people there for you who understand.

 

[dirtylittlecucker]

"waves". hi. Just subscribing. good thread.

 

[AnnieLit]

Okaaaay ... thanks for your thoughtful advice regarding something that happened two years ago, I guess?

Wow! Hats off to your patience!

 

[KimGordon67]

Wow! Hats off to your patience!

Yeah ... this dude weirdly popped up in two or three of my threads, one that had been (rightly) dormant for a really long time. The slightly paternalistic tone coupled with the total lack of engagement with obviously ongoing conversations was a little irksome.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I wanna talk break ups.

As a poly gurl, I’m going through a thing with one of the biggest loves of my life. We have tried to make things work for more than a year, but seem to find ourselves here time and again.

Any thoughts on breaking it with a significant partner?

Kim? Anyone?

So, I've been thinking about this off and on for the last week or so.

I don't think being poly makes a bit of difference when it comes to break ups (outside of possible legal issues of property division, it which case I'd just recommend getting a good lawyer).

Having someone leave you just generally sucks and there isn't really anything you can do about it. However, the degree to which you suffer over it or because of it is within your sphere of influence. I usually deal with it by getting all philosophical.

Life is change. Every relationship is always changing. Everything that begins will end. Rather than focus on my own loss I focus on the departing partners gain. "They're off on the next chapter of their great adventure and I wish them safe travels and wonderful adventures." I focus on what I loved about them. What I still love about them even as they move into a different position in my life (or perhaps entirely out of it). In short, I don't make it about me.

It's pretty normal for us, when confronted with a changing relationship, to say to ourselves "what did I do wrong? what's wrong with me that they want to leave?". Don't. Sincerely wish them all the best and let them go.

"May all beings know happiness and be free from suffering."

LOL - it doesn't always work. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not, but life keeps on moving.

(And, weirdly enough, I always liked the word "irk".)

 

[KimGordon67]

So, I've been thinking about this off and on for the last week or so.

I don't think being poly makes a bit of difference when it comes to break ups (outside of possible legal issues of property division, it which case I'd just recommend getting a good lawyer).

Having someone leave you just generally sucks and there isn't really anything you can do about it. However, the degree to which you suffer over it or because of it is within your sphere of influence. I usually deal with it by getting all philosophical.

Life is change. Every relationship is always changing. Everything that begins will end. Rather than focus on my own loss I focus on the departing partners gain. "They're off on the next chapter of their great adventure and I wish them safe travels and wonderful adventures." I focus on what I loved about them. What I still love about them even as they move into a different position in my life (or perhaps entirely out of it). In short, I don't make it about me.

It's pretty normal for us, when confronted with a changing relationship, to say to ourselves "what did I do wrong? what's wrong with me that they want to leave?". Don't. Sincerely wish them all the best and let them go.

"May all beings know happiness and be free from suffering."

LOL - it doesn't always work. Sometimes it's easy, sometimes it's not, but life keeps on moving.

(And, weirdly enough, I always liked the word "irk".)

I'm trying to do this less. I have a horrible habit of engaging in an utterly forensic examination of everything that happened, and think 'If I'd just used a different tone here, or said this instead of that, or given him a blow job *before* we fucked' etc etc.

The Local Guy is still around the edges of my life ... he's done the work he was doing for me, but he left his sunglasses behind, and he needs to drop off an invoice. So there's still weird bits of messaging ... I've sent one or two things that have made it relatively clear that I'd be up for ... something, but I haven't specifically said 'hey, how about getting yourself some beers and coming over for some fun'. Mostly because there's only so much rejection a girl can take. We're still getting on really well, he still flirts (which I actually think is his default setting with everyone - realising that helped me not get so confused by the flirting) ... but he doesn't seem interested in anything else, and I'm *finally* actually OK with that. It's mental how long it took me to properly get over him, but a large part of that was that I kept trying to work out what I'd done wrong, and thinking if I could identify that, I could somehow fix things. Feeling like that makes it very difficult to let go of things.
He's just doing what he wants to do. I don't get it at all, but it's not my life to understand. I'm sure people think I make some pretty weird decisions too.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I think there is value in going fully forensic on former relationships - the only thing I would say is to balance the review of good and bad and take the relationship as a whole. The temptation is to focus solely on the things that went wrong/were wrong, which can be a little bit brutal on ourselves.

I think it is only by sitting fully (to use zen slang) with things that we can understand them. We can not only determine changes we want to make in the future to lessen our suffering, but we can also identify those behaviors we want to keep doing. We're not all bad or all good in relationships. I think it would be a rare person who could lay claim to either.

Once we're aware of our behaviors in a relationship, we can consider whether or not we want to change this or change that or what we want to continue. I know I've got my faults in relationships - behaviors that are not conducive to a good relationship - but at the same time have their own value so I am not inclined to change them just to make a partner happy. This lets me bring them up in early in the spirit of full disclosure and let the partner make informed decisions and how those behaviors are going to move within the relationship.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I know I'm three weeks late, but anyway...

So, I've been thinking about this off and on for the last week or so.

I don't think being poly makes a bit of difference when it comes to break ups (outside of possible legal issues of property division, it which case I'd just recommend getting a good lawyer).

My experience has been similar to Moochienanu's: being closeted about the relationship makes a big difference to the process because it affects one's ability to lean on others. Having to soldier through it and not be able to say "sorry, just broke up with my partner, having a rough time" can be hard.

Usually my partners are also close friends, and part of my support network. A relationship breakup means I've already lost an important piece of that network at the same time that I need the network; if there are other complications on top of that, which is often a thing in poly, it can be really difficult.

My responses to that have been:

(1) Think very carefully before getting into relationships with people who aren't willing to let the existence of that relationship be known to my close friends.
(2) Remember to have a support network beyond my romantic partners.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I know I'm three weeks late, but anyway...

My experience has been similar to Moochienanu's: being closeted about the relationship makes a big difference to the process because it affects one's ability to lean on others. Having to soldier through it and not be able to say "sorry, just broke up with my partner, having a rough time" can be hard.

Usually my partners are also close friends, and part of my support network. A relationship breakup means I've already lost an important piece of that network at the same time that I need the network; if there are other complications on top of that, which is often a thing in poly, it can be really difficult.

My responses to that have been:

(1) Think very carefully before getting into relationships with people who aren't willing to let the existence of that relationship be known to my close friends.
(2) Remember to have a support network beyond my romantic partners.

Those are two important points. Any sort of "secret" relationship (or even an unacknowledged relationship - that is not an active secret but also not spoken of openly) carries a certain weight. Don't enter into any secrets unless you're willing to accept all the baggage that comes with secrecy.

I also think it is very important that a person have a support network that extends well beyond their romantic and sexual partner(s). A huge part of my resilience in the face of the suffering that is life is that I have a large and extended family (what we call the Tiyospaye in Lakota) that has my back as I make those reckless choices we all make in life, that group that can laugh with you and cry with you.

 

[KimGordon67]

Those are two important points. Any sort of "secret" relationship (or even an unacknowledged relationship - that is not an active secret but also not spoken of openly) carries a certain weight. Don't enter into any secrets unless you're willing to accept all the baggage that comes with secrecy.

I also think it is very important that a person have a support network that extends well beyond their romantic and sexual partner(s). A huge part of my resilience in the face of the suffering that is life is that I have a large and extended family (what we call the Tiyospaye in Lakota) that has my back as I make those reckless choices we all make in life, that group that can laugh with you and cry with you.

I am lucky that I have an amazing group of friends, and I tend to keep my relationships out of my friend group. Some of them are less tolerant of my often questionable behaviour than others, which is perfectly reasonable ... I definitely do keep banging my head against walls that are very clearly never going to move, for reasons that I don't even understand, and it must be frustrating watching that from the outside. But whether they get frustrated or not, they only want the best for me.

Case in point regarding my frustrating behaviour ... I somehow ended up cycling back around to the Local Guy AGAIN, after we'd spent a bit of time together while he was working here and that all seemed to be really easy and fun. So I messaged and said 'what do you reckon about giving it another go with the drinking&fucking', and he said 'maybe ... I'll come round for beer and see how things go'. Which is a fairly reasonable response. But then the 'coming round for a beer' thing turned into something that never really happened, and my attempts to just ask straight questions, e.g. 'Am I actually likely to see you or not?' were never met with a simply response, and then after me asking that three times over the course of a week, I suddenly get this rant that basically implies I'm harrassing him, and he never committed to anything, blah blah blah. I guess this is what I get for wanting a straight answer to a simple question, although it didn't seem that unreasonable to me. Anyway, I just didn't respond to that. I honestly do not know wtf is going on with this guy, but being nasty is just not necessary.

Ironically over the same rough time period I had two different guys that I'd had differing interactions with over the last year and then things had ended (for entirely different reasons) come back to me and ask if I'd changed my mind about things. I hadn't in either case, although with one (where the ongoing phone calls etc had gotten quite intense, and we were expecting to spend a bit of time together) I really had to think about that. But I managed to say 'no' to both of them without getting pissy about it, and while really thinking about how to not be unnecessarily hurtful to them. I knew that, especially in one case, it would have taken some balls to message me, and he would have already been as nervous as fuck. It's really not that hard to take other people's feelings into account. It does require a little bit of thought, and maybe a bit more time than just saying 'Fuck off', but still ... not THAT much more thought/time.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Getting a straight answer to a simple question is a reasonable expectation - and it's one thing I watch for in my budding relationships and then into the relationship itself.

Back when I was a practitioner of the black arts of interview and interrogation I was taught that it was a sign of deception, when you would ask a simple question that had a yes or no answer (or some other definitive answer) and the answer was "other than an answer" it was always a cue to note it and explore it later.

For example if you ask "Do you want to go on a date Saturday night"? There are two possible answers "Yes/No". Anything not a yes/no is deception. Not necessarily bad, but worth noting. The other common answer is deferment - any sort of "let me check" or "ask me tomorrow". Then, it's a question of whether or not it's a honest deferment (e.g. "I have to check and see if my babysitter is free" or "I'm waiting on a call, once i get that I'll let you know".). It's called a conditional deferment, which is not unusual or exceptional in an interview or interrogation, but clarify the terms of deferment and follow-up.

In personal relationships, any amount of conditional deferment is fine, but if the person is being honest they'll tell you what the condition is. If it's a deferment without condition (e.g. "I'll get back to you"), then my rule of thumb is to allow a couple or unconditional deferments (it could always be something they're not comfortable telling you that is legitimate), but if they never follow up to resolve the deferment - well, as the pop culture book says "they're just not that into you" and you have to decide if you're going to keep pursuing or let it go and move on.

Persistence is a weird thing in relationships - sometimes it is the appropriate path and it results in a future relationship, but it comes back to that conditional deferment thing - if they're deferring (or answering no) for a reason, it may pay off to just keep checking in to see if the reason has been revolved. I have in mind a lover of mine who, when we initially met and for a period of several years had a conditional deferment she had reference (a nasty divorce). After several years it did finally reach a resolution and we became lovers, but I think that's the exception, not the rule.

 

[KimGordon67]

Getting a straight answer to a simple question is a reasonable expectation - and it's one thing I watch for in my budding relationships and then into the relationship itself.

Back when I was a practitioner of the black arts of interview and interrogation I was taught that it was a sign of deception, when you would ask a simple question that had a yes or no answer (or some other definitive answer) and the answer was "other than an answer" it was always a cue to note it and explore it later.

For example if you ask "Do you want to go on a date Saturday night"? There are two possible answers "Yes/No". Anything not a yes/no is deception. Not necessarily bad, but worth noting. The other common answer is deferment - any sort of "let me check" or "ask me tomorrow". Then, it's a question of whether or not it's a honest deferment (e.g. "I have to check and see if my babysitter is free" or "I'm waiting on a call, once i get that I'll let you know".). It's called a conditional deferment, which is not unusual or exceptional in an interview or interrogation, but clarify the terms of deferment and follow-up.

In personal relationships, any amount of conditional deferment is fine, but if the person is being honest they'll tell you what the condition is. If it's a deferment without condition (e.g. "I'll get back to you"), then my rule of thumb is to allow a couple or unconditional deferments (it could always be something they're not comfortable telling you that is legitimate), but if they never follow up to resolve the deferment - well, as the pop culture book says "they're just not that into you" and you have to decide if you're going to keep pursuing or let it go and move on.

Persistence is a weird thing in relationships - sometimes it is the appropriate path and it results in a future relationship, but it comes back to that conditional deferment thing - if they're deferring (or answering no) for a reason, it may pay off to just keep checking in to see if the reason has been revolved. I have in mind a lover of mine who, when we initially met and for a period of several years had a conditional deferment she had reference (a nasty divorce). After several years it did finally reach a resolution and we became lovers, but I think that's the exception, not the rule.

I've been thinking quite a bit about the conversation we had a while back about practicing 'radical honesty', and really this is part of that. I'm not playing games with this dude (or indeed with anyone, hopefully) any more ... and I know that one of the games that people (maybe mostly women? but maybe not) play is 'I don't want to look needy/desperate/whatever'. The problem with that game is that other people have wildly different thresholds for what does seem needy etc, and this guys threshold is really unrealistically low. I know what it looks like when I'm being a pain in the arse, and this isn't it.

I am learning a bit about myself though, and one of the things I've realised is that I really do a lot better when there's some certainty in my life. I can handle pretty much anything without panicking - emergencies, pandemics, whatever - provided I know WHAT it is that I'm handling. The whole Covid situation has not been ideal for me, although I can to some extent cast that as 'I'm certain that everything could change at a moment's notice', and I can actually function well on that basis - mostly that just involves making sure that whatever is happening is flexible enough to respond to things shifting unexpectedly.
But I struggle with that in relationships with other people, partly I guess because the certainty I 'need' never really seems that unreasonable, and partly because it's something that the other person could give me pretty easily. Like, in this instance, I just want to know if I'm seeing this guy at some point or not. I don't really mind when - if it's in a month, that's fine. Unfortunately he seems to see providing any sort of certainty about anything at all as 'commitment'. Which I guess it is, but really it's the lowest possible level of commitment there is. And if he DOESN'T want to see me, he should (a) just fucking say that; and (b) stop bloody circling around me as though he *might* be interested.

 

[KimGordon67]

I know I'm three weeks late, but anyway...



My experience has been similar to Moochienanu's: being closeted about the relationship makes a big difference to the process because it affects one's ability to lean on others. Having to soldier through it and not be able to say "sorry, just broke up with my partner, having a rough time" can be hard.

Usually my partners are also close friends, and part of my support network. A relationship breakup means I've already lost an important piece of that network at the same time that I need the network; if there are other complications on top of that, which is often a thing in poly, it can be really difficult.

My responses to that have been:

(1) Think very carefully before getting into relationships with people who aren't willing to let the existence of that relationship be known to my close friends.
(2) Remember to have a support network beyond my romantic partners.

I've had a few approaches in the last year or two from guys who are married, but have 'arrangements' with their wives because they aren't having sex any more, and both of them want to see other people. (I won't bother going into what I think about their various reasons for not just getting divorced.) Mostly I do believe them, but after going on a date with one or two of them, I realised it's a hopeless situation, because even if they're not *technically* cheating, they still can't be open about anything they have going on with anyone else, in case someone they know sees them. So I would effectively have all the hallmarks of an 'affair', just without upsetting the person's wife (theoretically). I've decided that's really not for me ... my basic rule of thumb is that whoever's with me should be able to answer their phone, not matter who calls, and not have to lie about where they are.

I'm not sure how I'm going to end up handling any sort of poly situation - I still haven't actually dealt with the reality of that. I guess it's a little easier because I don't really see myself ending up in a complete 'proper' relationship with anyone, and there's different expectations around casual things. But of course, that could all change ... maybe there's some guy out there right now leafing through the photos on his phone trying to find one that doesn't have his ex in that he can use on Tinder, and he's the perfect guy for me. (lmao)

 

[Paul_Chance]

Anything that has to be done is the dark is the devils work.

That was a saying from when I was young, and religious implications aside, it kind of applies to affairs. If you have to keep it secret, it's usually not a good thing. Unless you happen to be the type of person that loves and thrives on secrets.

I didn't realize it until I read your post, but I agree with your rule of thumb - if you can't answer the phone when I call (understanding that their are times and places where everyone can't answer the phone), then I generally don't pursue the relationship. My approach is the same - if you call, I will answer, if their isn't some intervening life thing going on (in a meeting, already on the phone, etc.), and, again, generally, if I'm in a relationship with you, then be assured you've got "bumping" privileges - meaning I will hang up whatever call I am on so I can answer yours.

I'm still convinced I'm missing out on a whole world of crazy by not being on Tinder, because I find the stories very amusing, often in a train wreck kind of way. But, being a bit of a "normal distribution curve rules reality" kind of guy, it is very true that that unique special unicorn kind of person you're searching for is out there and is actively searching for you, and it's just a question of looking enough.

Or, you can take the Warren Zevon approach. "I appreciate the best, but I'm settling for less, I'm looking for the next best thing."

 

[Bramblethorn]

I've had a few approaches in the last year or two from guys who are married, but have 'arrangements' with their wives because they aren't having sex any more, and both of them want to see other people. (I won't bother going into what I think about their various reasons for not just getting divorced.) Mostly I do believe them, but after going on a date with one or two of them, I realised it's a hopeless situation, because even if they're not *technically* cheating, they still can't be open about anything they have going on with anyone else, in case someone they know sees them. So I would effectively have all the hallmarks of an 'affair', just without upsetting the person's wife (theoretically). I've decided that's really not for me ... my basic rule of thumb is that whoever's with me should be able to answer their phone, not matter who calls, and not have to lie about where they are.

That's a good starting point, yeah. It's been a long time since I dated anybody who was cheating/DADT with their other partner/s.

Where it's been messy for me is when somebody is willing to be open with their partners, but not with the broader social circle. I can sympathise - I kept a lot of stuff from a close family member because she was dying, and already not coping, and it would have just upset her and made a hard time worse for both of us. And I'm not exactly wild about my co-workers knowing quite so much about my private life. But it does complicate things like breakups.

 

[KimGordon67]

That's a good starting point, yeah. It's been a long time since I dated anybody who was cheating/DADT with their other partner/s.

Where it's been messy for me is when somebody is willing to be open with their partners, but not with the broader social circle. I can sympathise - I kept a lot of stuff from a close family member because she was dying, and already not coping, and it would have just upset her and made a hard time worse for both of us. And I'm not exactly wild about my co-workers knowing quite so much about my private life. But it does complicate things like breakups.

Ah ... yes, I see what you mean.

And I know what you mean about colleagues and one's private life. I find myself writing quite open Tinder profiles, and then thinking 'hmmm ... do I really want someone from my workplace reading this?'. Some days I don't give a fuck, but other days I'm a bit more circumspect ... and unfortunately sometimes 'don't give a fuck Kim' write the profiles, and 'circumspect Kim' then gets to have a little panic attack.

Although I've been less and less open about sexual things in my profiles. I find that if anything about sex is mentioned, a huge number of people just leap on that and assume it's all they need to know about me. The amount of messages I get saying 'we have so much in common' and I say 'really ... so who's your favourite band?' and they say 'Pink Floyd'. And then when I ask them what they think we have in common, the inevitable response is 'I love sex too'. Sigh.