Just a few questions....

[T.J. Jackson]

Should you tell your Master about disappointments you have because They have not praised you for something you felt you did well and that They didn’t comment on at all, or should you just accept that because They did not say something that therefore it must have been the right behaviour because if it had been wrong or not good enough that He would have told you so at the time?

Is it even right that a submissive should be disappointed in the Master at all, (because a Master is meant to be in the right at all times and after all, it is about their pleasure and happiness, not the submissives) or can only a Master be disappointed in His submissive?

Is it wrong to want/expect more or extra praise for something that you know you did well and They only made passing comment on (ie positive comment but not over the top praise) when you thought They would say more? And if so, should you say so to Them?



Every relationship and situation can be different. What are your views on these questions?

 

[Quint]

My reaction to this question was one of incredulity, and then I realized that I'm probably not in the majority on it. Hell yes I tell T when I'm disappointed in his reaction to an assignment I kicked ass on. Most of the time these are writing assignments and I take great pride in my writing; I also figure that if he is bothering to tell me to write something for him, he ought to be interested in the product. It's respectful to myself as a creator. Besides, I genuinely enjoy feedback; if I cared less about the products of my hand, I would not push him to give this to me, but I value myself too much for that. I want to improve and I want to know that I'm not the only person who appreciates my talent.

Yeah, we're not in a standard Master/slave relationship, but as we move into a certainly more power exchange based relationship, I'm going to keep telling him when I feel I'm not being given due respect and appreciation. At least for something so precious that I have created on his command, I need to have both of these. In more trivial matters, like menial tasks, I'm not going to get upset if he doesn't praise me. But anything that I put myself into, I need an equal reaction to.

I know it was just a question but I was inflamed at the "Is it even right that a submissive should be disappointed in the Master at all, (because a Master is meant to be in the right at all times and after all, it is about their pleasure and happiness, not the submissives) or can only a Master be disappointed in His submissive?" But I guess that's why I don't label myself a generic submissive. Wish cymbidia were here to eloquently give the "submissive does not equal non-person" speech.

 

[T.J. Jackson]

I wasn't even insinuating that a submissive is a non person. I'm just asking questions. I personally believe that a submissive has every right to be disappointed in the Master. I'm sure however that there are some out there who believe Master does no wrong and therefore I should never be disappointed in Him/Her. I don't see that as being healthy but to each his or her own.

Sorry you found them incredulous. I was just trying to spark some conversation on the topic of disappointment.

 

[bunny bondage]

actually, i'm with Quint. if i'm unhappy or dissatisfied or dissapointed or just irked i make myself heard. i guess that makes me a non-standard model of submissive as well, but if i have done something for Him, and i do not recieve acknowledgment, i feel like i am being taken for granted. yes, i strive to please Him and do as much for Him as i can, be it going to get Him coffee, writing stories with Him under His guidence, or just rubbing His back after a long day. and i truly enjoy doing these things (or i wouldn't do them). making Him happy makes me happy, His pleasure is mine. but damnit, i'm a person too and demand to be treated as such!

 

[T.J. Jackson]

snip...., but if i have done something for Him, and i do not recieve acknowledgment, i feel like i am being taken for granted. snip

I'm just playing devils advocate here....what if you wrote something you thought was kick ass and He read it and thought it was just ok, what would you do? It goes to one of the questions....

Is it wrong to want/expect more or extra praise for something that you know you did well and They only made passing comment on (ie positive comment but not over the top praise) when you thought They would say more? And if so, should you say so to Them?

 

[Quint]

I'm sorry for being snarky earlier, T.J. It was less at you and more at the mentality that would ask a question like that in all seriousness and expect me to say "No, of course Master is perfect and I should not ever expect any happiness of my own." I apologize for identifying you with that question; it was unfair.

To answer your devil's advocate (Al Pacino is my Daddy) question, there have been times when T's reaction to something I wrote was not nearly as positive as I had anticipated. What is important at those times, for me, is not that he lie or feel guilty about not liking what I wrote as much as I did, but that he explains to me why it didn't reach him or what I could have improved upon. It also helps if he gives me an effort to "redeem" myself, which is very much for MY benefit because I'll be pissy until I create something better. I don't want empty praise. I want, like BB said, to be appreciated for what I do well and to have impetus to improve in the future.

 

[WillowPuss]

I read this thread earlier ... with Master sitting at my side.

I made no comment - but He said "If a submissive does not voice their disappointment in something the Dominant has done - how are They to know? The essence should be repectful communication and 100% honesty. Then both might grow"


This is something I have a lot of trouble with.
Whilst I know that nobody is perfect, I find it really hard to voice any sort of disappointment or criticism of another. It is something that requires a lot of concious effort from me - and something that I am working on.


I tend to think that I have done an adequate job unless told otherwise - and so would not expect positive comment for everything I did. I know what is expected of me and just do it. If a job/task is praised, then that is wonderful - but if it isn't, it's no big deal. I wouldn't want Master forever to be saying 'thank-you' or 'good girl' every couple of minutes.

Having said that - He does pass comment at the end of each day.

As for wanting/expecting praise. I do not expect it. I may crave it, and I positively glow when I get praise for anything I do, no matter how big or small ... but I never expect it.

 

[lark sparrow]

If something is really bothering me Mistress would always prefer that I bring it up in a timely manner as a smaller problem rather than let it fester and warp itself into some huge issue - so in my case were I to feel that, and were it to be more than a passing disappointment, then by the guidelines She has given it me it would be my job to bring it to Her attention. However I also realize that some things are more important to me, and less to Her, and vice versa - how much people are going to fawn over eachother in these areas is up to them. I think as long as the Dominant is aware of the dynamics in the relationships, then it is their choice in how to handle it.

I try to remember for myself and others that feelings can't be right or wrong - they usually just are to begin with, and there is probably a set of beliefs that can be shifted to change the feelings, but invalidating them probably won't start it. So while I wouldn't expect a Dominant to jump at every feeling their submissive has by any means, in controlling and taking responsibility for their submissive they may want to understand and do some reshaping of beliefs that lead to bad feelings.

If it feels like a larger problem it should probably be discussed, but that doesn't mean the Dominant must do as the submissive wishes. It may be about learning the Dominant for the submissive - it goes both ways. If I wanted more praise and tell Her, there are many ways She can choose to respond. She doesn't have to fawn over me in any way, shape or form simply because I have requested it.

She may choose to - perhaps she didn't know how important or difficult it was and She wants to let me know and have me feel that She is proud of me. She may feel it is not as important and worthy of praise - that it was an expectation that I do it, and She would no more overtly praise me for it then She would brushing my teeth. But once I tell Her about it the ball is in Her court, and whatever spin She puts on it is Hers. The final analysis belongs to Her, and I get the last word, "yes Mistress". If I am struggling with it hopefully She will take the time to help me understand it from Her point of view, but it's my job to get my head around it one way or another, regardless.

If it's about writing something, She is usually very supportive, but I also know that if it is very long, and drawn out it is not Her thing and although She will be proud, She will probably not be as excited and wanting to disect it piece by piece and have a long analysis about it. So, She's very aware of how important it is to me, but She often doesn't share the same level of interest... and sometimes that is all that is really needed, the acknowledgement and maybe a bit of extra attention when She feels like it, if that makes sense.

lol oh yeah, and Mistress is "always right"... it's a rule.

 

[bunny bondage]

I'm just playing devils advocate here....what if you wrote something you thought was kick ass and He read it and thought it was just ok, what would you do? It goes to one of the questions....

then i would ask Him why He thought it was just ok, and i would tell Him why i thought it was kick-ass, and then we'd talk about it. He is, after all, an english prof and good at that kind of thing!

 

[Master_Vassago]

I prefer a fiery sub and would expect her (as I am currently without one) to tell Me when she was unsatisfied or disappointed with things. A D/s relationship is like any other. You have to communicate and share disappointments but also in the same respect all the highs as well.

 

[zanna]

i read this thread last night...and brought it up to Him when all was quiet and we were in bed because i was very curious as to what His thoughts would be.

His reaction surprised me. He always encouarges me to speak my mind, but His answer was it is not my place to have expectations regarding His reactions. He agreed that i can *be* disappointed, and it is okay to feel that way. i feel a little confused now and think i may bring this up at a later time to Him for clarification. He agreed that praise should be given, but i should not expect it. He did agree there are exceptions such as the completion of a task not normally asked of me, but still said if He chose to simply say "good job" and walk away, it was my place to accept that. i then asked Him if it was permissable to voice my disappointment and He said yes, but that did not mean He would automatically give more praise either.

Hmmmmmm...i am still mulling this over today.

zanna

 

[psiberzerker]

Love is a many splintered thing, and all that. BDSM, in particular has about as many flavours as practicioners. (Baskin Robins be damned) Some Doms will let things like your dissapointment in stride, while others will make you regret it. I tend to side with yours. "submissives" shouldn't have any expectations of compliments, or so forth from their Masters. That's kinda why they're called Masters.
OTOH, any Master worthy of the title should know how to keep their subjects happy. Otherwize, they find themselves very lonely very quickly. Voicing your opinion afterwards was your right as a member of the relationship. Just don't do it during a scene/session/whatever you guys call it. If you don't sit down, and talk to each other occasionally, it won't last long.

 

[T.J. Jackson]

Thanks to all who responded so far. I hope it has sparked some conversation.

 

[Netzach]

I find that petting my cats makes them purr and rub up against me, and you can even see them smile sometimes, little cat smiles.

I think that if I ignored them they'd get along ok, but what's the point of a cat that you just ignore?