Is The Big One This Close?

[Tungwagger]

Bush has let loose the NSA to spy on us.
I hope they don't pull the trigger. There's no going back if they do.

You're rather pompous though.

The equivalent paranoia of peeing in a bottle to prove you're not doing drugs. Please feel free to point out to me a single citizen who's civil rights were denied as a result of Bush's authorization to intercept questionable transmissions....and please don't use this as an opportunity to delve into the legality of it...I'm sure those questions will either be answered or debated ad infinitum. (minutae)

You went from the concept of a tactical nuke plan to the notion that Bush is spying on every one of us....

Which belies the need to blame Bush for everything.

I'm really not pompous, I just believe only 1/2 of what I see, 1/10 of what I read, and about 1/100 of what I hear from someone else these days.

I'm more of an obtuse personality...

But it's your story, you can tell it any way you wish.

 

[69forever]

The equivalent paranoia of peeing in a bottle to prove you're not doing drugs. Please feel free to point out to me a single citizen who's civil rights were denied as a result of Bush's authorization to intercept questionable transmissions....and please don't use this as an opportunity to delve into the legality of it...I'm sure those questions will either be answered or debated ad infinitum. (minutae)

You went from the concept of a tactical nuke plan to the notion that Bush is spying on every one of us....

Which belies the need to blame Bush for everything.

I'm really not pompous, I just believe only 1/2 of what I see, 1/10 of what I read, and about 1/100 of what I hear from someone else these days.

I'm more of an obtuse personality...

But it's your story, you can tell it any way you wish.

I do beleive it's more the precedent set and what it means for the future. The matter, legally will eventually end up in the Supreme Court. It's not paranoia.
It does have unequivacable philosophical implications to Constitutional law.

Does a sitting President have the right to violate the law? In matters of national security. Does the Bill Congress gave Bush allow him to engage in a broader, wordwide war, using nukes? They're all tied together. You can't pick and choose which one.

Obtuse is ok. I've learned to be open minded though. Even for a Leftist.

This IS a vital decision. That genie can not come out of the bottle again without grave consequences for humanity. IMHO.

In the mean time....R.I.P. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

 

[ma_guy]

Chossudovsky is one of the fruitcakes screaming about the U.S. has "secret weapons" (aka "HAARP") that control global weather too. He's as nutty as they get as are the other's that write crap for "globalsecurity.org". They are all regular participants at rense.com (aka "conspiracy central").

 

[Slider69]

Insofar as Iran is concerned, we ought to be concerned with a lunatic possessing nukes.

The funny thing is that we tried the liberal pansy-ass approach with Iran, in trying "diplomacy" with a regime that won't entertain diplomacy, and that has become the primary source of irritation in the world, all while Europe has done nothing, the UN has done nothing, you see a trend here?

And then the US is inevitably crucified for stepping in to prevent a nuclear holocaust in places that are a few hundred miles from Teheran, even though the US isn't directly threatened.

Iran needs a fucking spanking like nobody's business. God how I wish Desert One wouldn't have happened.

 

[69forever]

Insofar as Iran is concerned, we ought to be concerned with a lunatic possessing nukes.

The funny thing is that we tried the liberal pansy-ass approach with Iran, in trying "diplomacy" with a regime that won't entertain diplomacy, and that has become the primary source of irritation in the world, all while Europe has done nothing, the UN has done nothing, you see a trend here?

And then the US is inevitably crucified for stepping in to prevent a nuclear holocaust in places that are a few hundred miles from Teheran, even though the US isn't directly threatened.

Iran needs a fucking spanking like nobody's business. God how I wish Desert One wouldn't have happened.

I seriously agree about Iran. BUT how do you win the hearts and minds of the people? Nuke them? I don't fucking think so.

The issue is us using Nukes again first. This "Battlefield Nuke" has one fourth the energy of the Hiroshima bomb. It is time delayed to go off underground on a bunkbuster bomb. Big deal. Where is the radioactivity going to go????

It's going to poison the air and the soil. The prevailing winds come East. Where are we? DUH???

We can't release this genie again. Nor can we afford as a nation to undertake another war.

*Where is that Chinese dictionary?*

 

[Tungwagger]

I do beleive it's more the precedent set and what it means for the future. The matter, legally will eventually end up in the Supreme Court. It's not paranoia.
It does have unequivacable philosophical implications to Constitutional law.

Does a sitting President have the right to violate the law? In matters of national security. Does the Bill Congress gave Bush allow him to engage in a broader, wordwide war, using nukes? They're all tied together. You can't pick and choose which one.

Obtuse is ok. I've learned to be open minded though. Even for a Leftist.

This IS a vital decision. That genie can not come out of the bottle again without grave consequences for humanity. IMHO.

In the mean time....R.I.P. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

Assuming that Bush is the first to use this little gem....As I understand it, Carter,Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton have all used electronic surveillance in the same fashion, including bypassing the FISA courts. I'm more alarmed at the fact that the info leaked out in an obvious attempt to harm this president during a time of war. Bush, has welcomed investigations as long as no security issues are revealed. That doesn't seem to me to be the actions of a law breaker.

Thus the philosophical implications. Roe v Wade isn't really addressed in the constitution, and most constitutional scholars agree that the initial ruling was weak. So keeping with your assertion that you can't pick and choose, I wonder where you stand on this?

As far as the nuke issue. I personally believe that the President has the responsibility to protect the U.S. citizen against ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic. To not consider the possibility of using them, the logical question is then asked, why have them? Regardless of individual viewpoints, the genie was let out of the bottle when Oppenheimer was given the ability and funds to create the first one. Now it has become a matter of neccessity to include the option in all military planning.

However, the fact that we have the ability to use them DOES'NT MEAN WE WILL use them.

The fact that you present this as a certainty of using them belies your inability to have any type of faith in people. Some would argue that Bush is a maniacal bully intent on dominating the world. The same was said of Reagan, yet his vision caused the Russians to blink first, the same as Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis.

 

[woody54]

I call, "Bullshit"

Another anti-US "leak" -more of the same.

It's amazing that the #1 country in the world that historically has interceded and stabilized every fucking war in the 20 and 21st Century is still displayed as the bad guy on the block by the ineffectual idiot nations that allow the condition destabilizing a region or the world to exist.

Hahahahahahahaha, the US stabilised the Vietnamese Penninsular for the Communists, they stabilised several rightwing Banana Republics in South America for the Socialists and now they are stabilising Iraq for the Shia Muslims of Iran.

The world survived perfectly well without US interference in the past and it will again in the future.

Get over yourself. You are only the No ! weapons producer in the world and thereby are the major destabilising influence in the big picture.
The bad guy is the despicable gun trader who lives off the blood of others.

Didn't yo mama teach anything about decent behaviour.

 

[KRCummings]

Hahahahahahahaha, the US stabilised the Vietnamese Penninsular for the Communists, they stabilised several rightwing Banana Republics in South America for the Socialists and now they are stabilising Iraq for the Shia Muslims of Iran.

The world survived perfectly well without US interference in the past and it will again in the future.

Get over yourself. You are only the No ! weapons producer in the world and thereby are the major destabilising influence in the big picture.
The bad guy is the despicable gun trader who lives off the blood of others.

Didn't yo mama teach anything about decent behaviour.

Oh look, Woody is here for our daily lesson on how to be a bigoted moron.

 

[woody54]

Chossudovsky is one of the fruitcakes screaming about the U.S. has "secret weapons" (aka "HAARP") that control global weather too. He's as nutty as they get as are the other's that write crap for "globalsecurity.org". They are all regular participants at rense.com (aka "conspiracy central").

You would do well to understand the complexities of HAARP a little more because it is a new leap in technology such as nuclear over conventional arms. Russia also has a HAARP project.
Never be too ready to dismiss anything that the Military has been investing billions into for so long and so secretively. To be able to control the atmosphere has massive implications for the world we know.

 

[woody54]

Oh look, Woody is here for our daily lesson on how to be a bigoted moron.

Let ye be judged by thy results.

I am still laughing here at the big headedness of the post I answered.

 

[ma_guy]

You would do well to understand the complexities of HAARP a little more because it is a new leap in technology such as nuclear over conventional arms. Russia also has a HAARP project.
Never be too ready to dismiss anything that the Military has been investing billions into for so long and so secretively. To be able to control the atmosphere has massive implications for the world we know.

Absolute bullshit. I happen to work with the people that design, build and buy the U.S. military's weather systems.

Never be to ready to accept the bullshit people post on the conspiracy WWW sites. And take your meds. You're slipping again.

 

[woody54]

we ought to be concerned with a lunatic possessing nukes.

Yes , we ought to be very concerned.

What we have here is a fuckwit with a big ego problem threatening to nuke a country sitting on his oil, that only dreams of having the capability to expunge an error on history.

So who is the dangerous lunatic in this picture? Bush. He is talking about actually using them offensively in a non threatening country.

However, I suppose when you have cut your genocidal teeth on thousands of dead Afghan and Iraqi civilians in the wholely offensive War of Terror and throwing in a few Pakistanis for added flavour, it isn't surprising Americans have a taste for more foreigners blood to justify the staggering cost of their military machine.

Nobody dies from Iranian dreaming. No one!

 

[Tungwagger]

You would do well to understand the complexities of HAARP a little more because it is a new leap in technology such as nuclear over conventional arms. Russia also has a HAARP project.
Never be too ready to dismiss anything that the Military has been investing billions into for so long and so secretively. To be able to control the atmosphere has massive implications for the world we know.

You mean this secretive project?

http://www.crystalinks.com/haarp.html

or this secretive project?

http://www.haarp.net/

Or this secretive project?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAARP

Hardly seems secretive when it's so readily available.

Now comes the question.....who's website is accurate?


I'm thinking you'll say the middle one......just a guess...

 

[Tungwagger]

Yes , we ought to be very concerned.

What we have here is a fuckwit with a big ego problem threatening to nuke a country sitting on his oil, that only dreams of having the capability to expunge an error on history.

So who is the dangerous lunatic in this picture? Bush. He is talking about actually using them offensively in a non threatening country.

However, I suppose when you have cut your genocidal teeth on thousands of dead Afghan and Iraqi civilians in the wholely offensive War of Terror and throwing in a few Pakistanis for added flavour, it isn't surprising Americans have a taste for more foreigners blood to justify the staggering cost of their military machine.

Nobody dies from Iranian dreaming. No one!

Are you related to DonkeyDyck?

 

[woody54]

Absolute bullshit. I happen to work with the people that design, build and buy the U.S. military's weather systems.

Never be to ready to accept the bullshit people post on the conspiracy WWW sites. And take your meds. You're slipping again.

I made no claims about the capabilities of the technology, just that it needed to be understood and cannot be dismissed as just another conspiracy hoax.

Look, you may drive the truck that delivers paper to print weather maps on but your security clearance would be as high as mine and you wouldn't be in the loop either.

Why is a quest for knowledge, a conspiracy? Is this an American dumbing down thang?

 

[woody54]

Are you related to DonkeyDyck?

Only in that DD too sees clearly that George W. Bush is a threat to world peace and works in league with the 400 richest people in the world controlling over $16 trillion in assets and 25 % of the worlds industrial production, all against the best interests of the people who think he represents them.

 

[Tungwagger]

Only in that DD too sees clearly that George W. Bush is a threat to world peace and works in league with the 400 richest people in the world controlling over $16 trillion in assets and 25 % of the worlds industrial production, all against the best interests of the people who think he represents them.

a simple yes would have sufficed....You're starting to resemble a U.S. Senator..

 

[ma_guy]

I made no claims about the capabilities of the technology, just that it needed to be understood and cannot be dismissed as just another conspiracy hoax.

And you are still full of shit - but then everyone alreday knows that nayway.

Look, you may drive the truck that delivers paper to print weather maps on but your security clearance would be as high as mine and you wouldn't be in the loop either.

You couldn't get a security clearance if your life depended on it. I've held mine for better than 30 years and beleive me, it's higher than what you might think.

 

[Tungwagger]

I made no claims about the capabilities of the technology, just that it needed to be understood and cannot be dismissed as just another conspiracy hoax.

?

Never be too ready to dismiss anything that the Military has been investing billions into for so long and so secretively. To be able to control the atmosphere has massive implications for the world we know.

Yep, looks like a claim to me.....


Bullshit.....there, I said it...

 

[69forever]

You couldn't get a security clearance if your life depended on it. I've held mine for better than 30 years and beleive me, it's higher than what you might think.

Then you should know that the weapons are in place and ready to go in Israel.

That the stealth birds are fully prepped in.

That the intention to go to the UN Security Council is nothing but an attempt at world legitimacy for the slaughter.

This talk of Oppenheimer releasing the genie....or for that matter Einstein with his MC= theory is blowing fucking smoke and you know it.

Do you really think China will sit idly by and see a major sourse of it's oil be nuked?
Ya'll can't be that fucking stupid. Jeezes man, look at the big picture and not just the dim-witted outlook of our "Commander in Chief".

 

[KRCummings]

Then you should know that the weapons are in place and ready to go in Israel.

That the stealth birds are fully prepped in.

You've been watching too many movies.

 

[69forever]

Assuming that Bush is the first to use this little gem....As I understand it, Carter,Reagan, Bush I, and Clinton have all used electronic surveillance in the same fashion, including bypassing the FISA courts. I'm more alarmed at the fact that the info leaked out in an obvious attempt to harm this president during a time of war. Bush, has welcomed investigations as long as no security issues are revealed. That doesn't seem to me to be the actions of a law breaker.

Thus the philosophical implications. Roe v Wade isn't really addressed in the constitution, and most constitutional scholars agree that the initial ruling was weak. So keeping with your assertion that you can't pick and choose, I wonder where you stand on this?

As far as the nuke issue. I personally believe that the President has the responsibility to protect the U.S. citizen against ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic. To not consider the possibility of using them, the logical question is then asked, why have them? Regardless of individual viewpoints, the genie was let out of the bottle when Oppenheimer was given the ability and funds to create the first one. Now it has become a matter of neccessity to include the option in all military planning.

However, the fact that we have the ability to use them DOES'NT MEAN WE WILL use them.

The fact that you present this as a certainty of using them belies your inability to have any type of faith in people. Some would argue that Bush is a maniacal bully intent on dominating the world. The same was said of Reagan, yet his vision caused the Russians to blink first, the same as Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis.

I'm not sure how the abortion issue got dragged in here. But I'll answer it.

Personally I'm opposed to abortion. I love kids and life period. Would I enforce that on a woman who decides not to carry the fetus full term? No. Not until the self-rightous, placard carrying assholes protesting it decide to adodpt the lives saved. Put your money where your mouth is. IMHO.

Bush hasn't welcomed any critisism....his staff cowers at his temper tantrums over leaks or bad news. You have a very distorted perspective of reality. The man is an idiot and carpetbagger of the biggest degree. He's only now being realed in, in a fashion, by the Republican majority. There are elections coming up for the House and Senate.

You're right in one degree. I have no faith in the current administration.

 

[69forever]

You've been watching too many movies.

If I'm wrong....and I pray so, I'll make a full public confession of such.

Until then, I'll go with the info I have and the developing conditions.

It sure isn't looking good though, is it?

 

[KRCummings]

If I'm wrong....and I pray so, I'll make a full public confession of such.

Until then, I'll go with the info I have and the developing conditions.

It sure isn't looking good though, is it?

Let me clue you in on a few things here, scout...

The big bombers are always prepped. Always flying and always ready. We have them in the air 24/7 as part of our defense. It's been that way for years. No need to panic there, sport.

Of course Isreal would have their nukes ready. So do we. So does France, England, China, Russia, India and Pakistan. If I left anybody out I'm sorry, don't nuke me. It's part of readiness. You gotta have them pointed and ready at all times. Duh.

Nobody is gonna nuke Iran. They don't have nukes. What would be the point when conventional bombing would do the same damage without fallout and less of an international incident. Not to mention that even the president can't just push the button. It takes a little bit more than that.

We are not the only ones pissed at Iran. We're not even the first. Europe suggested going to the UN before we did.

No, China will not sit idly by and allow a threat to their oil. They'll tell Iran to cut the shit out just like everyone else. Iran is the threat, not us or Isreal or anyone else. China isn't stupid.

 

[Lost Cause]

"You've been watching too many movies."

One movie too many for sure....

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9903/08/kubrick.obit/strangelove.jpg


Paranoia is a funny thing........