is Harvard slipping?

[ExLimey]

You hosers, er I mean Canadians, will know what I'm talking about. On "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" (It's a Canadian comedy much like The Daily Show if you need an American equivalent) a few weeks ago they had a bit called "Talking to Americans" and their guy was at Harvard trying to make Americans look stupid (which wasn't too difficult).

Anyway, he's asking them how they feel about Canada allowing the "Calgary Seal Hunt" because of pressure from fishermen who say the seals are eating all their fish and decimating their business. Everyone came out against it, including one gentlemen who admitted to being on the faculty! The point being that there are no seals in Calgary and it's no where near the ocean for fishing, but everyone seemed to not know those facts.

Now maybe it's just because I had a Geography of Canada class in college, but are most people that ignorant of Canadian geography or geography of anywhere but the US?

They also like to make fun of Peter Mannsbridge (the Tom Brokaw of CBC). They were asking people if they felt it was okay for people to climb up on the Peter MannsBridge to protest the seal hunt!

 

[Starblayde]

Canada... Its big, its snowy... Toronto is just above niagra falls.... thats about the limit of my canuck geography...

America? I could point out the major cities... point to about 1/5th of the states on the map....

all this and i'm english.... I think the USA is very USA-centric

 

[ExLimey]

America? I could point out the major cities... point to about 1/5th of the states on the map....

all this and i'm english.... I think the USA is very USA-centric

Actually that's probably better than a lot of Americans could do.

I remember when I was "studying" for my citizenship test (been here since I was 8, went to school, graduated college (history)) a lot of my co-workers had no idea about some of the answers to some very basic questions.

--How many stripes on the US flag? --What do they represent?

Nothing mind boggling, but probably something most natives take for granted in a way.

 

[kotori]

I'd venture to guess that if given the option is Canada north or south, the average American would guess north. Mexico south.

After that, fuggeddabouddit.

Even see a U.S. weather map? Typically, they make the Great Lakes look like the North Coast.

 

[badasschick]

I'm American and I would have thought the question was shady, because when I think Calgary I think Cowboys n stuff, but anyway...

About Harvard.

I can't stand getting flack from people who went to Ivy league schools. For some reason they think their education is better, but the fact of the matter is, their degrees mean jack squat. It is impossible to fail a class there.

As a university policy they do not give C's, and almost everyone there has a GPA of 3.8 or higher because of that. And you wonder why they're stupid?

Its all about retaining their prestige. Yes, my school isn't as hard to get into, and yes, it's mainly known for basketball and a really famous alum. But at least when you get an A, you earned it, and in turn your education means something.

Harvard pretty much has turned to this policy, because it can't deal with the fact that its turning out a bunch of fuckwits.

And the above mentioned Canadian show has pointed this out.

 

[ExLimey]

A few years ago Cable in the Classroom got in trouble with all the schools here in the U.P. because they showed a map of the US and forgot to include us. The U.P., for those that don't know, is the part of Michigan everyone thinks is either Wisconsin or Canada!

Speaking of which I sat and ate my lunch today staring across at Soo, Canada, watching the lake boats go by... ah, what a life.

 

[sabbathstorm]

I loved that show! Especially the bits congratulating Canada on legalizing VCRs and people voicing opinions on why Canada should have a daily newspaper

 

[Ishmael]

You hosers, er I mean Canadians, will know what I'm talking about. On "This Hour Has 22 Minutes" (It's a Canadian comedy much like The Daily Show if you need an American equivalent) a few weeks ago they had a bit called "Talking to Americans" and their guy was at Harvard trying to make Americans look stupid (which wasn't too difficult).

Anyway, he's asking them how they feel about Canada allowing the "Calgary Seal Hunt" because of pressure from fishermen who say the seals are eating all their fish and decimating their business. Everyone came out against it, including one gentlemen who admitted to being on the faculty! The point being that there are no seals in Calgary and it's no where near the ocean for fishing, but everyone seemed to not know those facts.

Now maybe it's just because I had a Geography of Canada class in college, but are most people that ignorant of Canadian geography or geography of anywhere but the US?

They also like to make fun of Peter Mannsbridge (the Tom Brokaw of CBC). They were asking people if they felt it was okay for people to climb up on the Peter MannsBridge to protest the seal hunt!

Generally speaking the current crop of American college students are the most poorly educated, un-prepared, egocentric group of twits I've had the mispleasure of being around in years.

It's a shame, I hope that our institutions of higher learning aren't following the example of our elementary and high schools. It is not just geography that is lacking. Government, economics, history, and linear analysis are all foriegn to them.

I hope it's not to late.

Ishmael

 

[amiss]

Canada... Its big, its snowy... Toronto is just above niagra falls.... thats about the limit of my canuck geography...

No no. No no no.
Toronto is on the other side of a lake and a good 2+ hour drive from Niagara Falls.

And yes, based on experience (and many, many televised question periods described above), Americans are THAT ________(fill in adjective of your choice).

I know I"m generalizing, and I'm sure my US neighbours will give me flack, but it's true! Canadians know more about Americans (in general) than vice versa.

 

[ExLimey]

I can't stand getting flack from people who went to Ivy league schools. For some reason they think their education is better, but the fact of the matter is, their degrees mean jack squat. It is impossible to fail a class there.

A line from the Chris Isaak show:

Guy: Here have a Harvard mug.

Yola: No, I didn't go to Harvard, I went to Syracuse.

Guy: Does it matter.

Yola: You tell me.

 

[Mischka]

Now maybe it's just because I had a Geography of Canada class in college, but are most people that ignorant of Canadian geography or geography of anywhere but the US?

I know squat about Canadian history or geography. After the French and Indian War, Canada pretty much fell off my academic map.

No offense to Canada, but most countries concentrate on their own history and the major events of the rest of the world. Kudos to Canadians for knowing so much about your neighbors to the south, but honestly, there's not some reciprocity agreement in place that requires us to know a comparable amount about you.

 

[kotori]

800 lbs. Gorilla

Kudos to Canadians for knowing so much about your neighbors to the south, but honestly, there's not some reciprocity agreement in place that requires us to know a comparable amount about you.

They don't have a lot of choice. There are fewer Canadians than Californians.

 

[ExLimey]

There were several great things about the Canadian Geography course I took in College. First, it was taught by a Canuck (he was from Hamilton) and most of the course consisted of him showing us his vacation slides of all the provinces. Second, I'm a hockey nut and got to find out exactly where all the minor league teams were located. Some great town names are now locateable (is that a word) on the map. Moose Jaw, Chicoutimi, Saskatoon, Regina, and many others. It was probably my favorite nonmajor course I ever took.

 

[Starblayde]

No no. No no no.
Toronto is on the other side of a lake and a good 2+ hour drive from Niagara Falls.

hey! its a big map!

im not used to countries being longer than about 500 miles....

 

[Mischka]

Re: Re: is Harvard slipping?

Generally speaking the current crop of American college students are the most poorly educated, un-prepared, egocentric group of twits I've had the mispleasure of being around in years.

It's a shame, I hope that our institutions of higher learning aren't following the example of our elementary and high schools. It is not just geography that is lacking. Government, economics, history, and linear analysis are all foriegn to them.

I hope it's not to late.

Ishmael

"The denunciation of the young is a necessary part of the hygiene of older people."

- Logan Pearsall Smith, 1881 - 1943

"In case you're worried about what's going to become of the younger generation, it's going to grow up and start worrying about the younger generation."

- Roger Allen

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: is Harvard slipping?

I know squat about Canadian history or geography. After the French and Indian War, Canada pretty much fell off my academic map.

No offense to Canada, but most countries concentrate on their own history and the major events of the rest of the world. Kudos to Canadians for knowing so much about your neighbors to the south, but honestly, there's not some reciprocity agreement in place that requires us to know a comparable amount about you.

All true Mischka, but a few years ago I went to a local bank to pick up a wire transfer. When I got there and showed my ID, I was escorted to the Branch Managers office. He smiled and politely told me that they couldn't accept "foriegn" drivers licenses as identification. I argued with him, but he was adamant. I asked if he was a college graduate, and he answered, "Yes, of course".

I immediately drove to the main bank and demanded to speak to the president. I related my story. My transfer was delivered to me, and the branch manager was fired.

My "foriegn" dirvers license was a valid drivers license from the state of New Mexico.

Go figure. Never can tell when that "stupid" geography stuff may come in handy.

Ishmael

 

[ExLimey]

I drove through Canada, from Niagara Falls to Port Huron, MI a few years ago. Skirted Toronto. I was driving and had to take a picture of the Wayne Gretzky Highway sign near Brantford. Never got out of the car though. We were on our way back from Boston, non-stop to Marquette, MI, so sight-seeing was not on the agenda. Canadian drivers sure do speed!

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Problem Child]

Re: Re: is Harvard slipping?

I know squat about Canadian history or geography. After the French and Indian War, Canada pretty much fell off my academic map.

No offense to Canada, but most countries concentrate on their own history and the major events of the rest of the world. Kudos to Canadians for knowing so much about your neighbors to the south, but honestly, there's not some reciprocity agreement in place that requires us to know a comparable amount about you.

Translation: We don't really care.

 

[Mischka]

Re: Re: Re: is Harvard slipping?

Go figure. Never can tell when that "stupid" geography stuff may come in handy.

I never said that geography was stupid. I would argue, however, that common sense would have solved the problem, not a general command of geography. Every establishment that has to check photo identification is supposed to have a book that shows the legal identification cards of each state.

 

[BustyTheClown]

I agree with Mischka -- it may seem USA-centric that Americans don't know a whole lot about Canadians, but we don't have some sort of "you tell me, then I'll tell you" deal going on here. I grew up in Arizona and I was more interested in what was going on in Mexico than in Canada. Does that make me stupid? I would like to think not. I understand why it seems ignorant of Americans in general not to know a lot about Canadians, but that does not make us stupid.

I resent the comment about college students being a "poorly educated, un-prepared, egocentric group of twits." I have worked damn hard to get where I am today, and just because we do not have as much experience as most adults out there, that does not make us stupid or unprepared. We may be a bit egocentric, but keep in mind half of us are still practically teenagers. Forgive us for being young -- everyone was that way once.

As for the whole Harvard thing, I saw a TV special on it, and I think it gives American colleges a bad name -- especially Ivy League colleges. It's sort of flipped the American academic world on its head. If the best colleges are practically giving away A's, what the hell is going on in "lesser" institutions? I just hope people realize that it really is about these prestigious schools maintaining their reputations as pumping out highly intelligent, prepared people, and that the actions of some colleges are not synonymous to the actions of *all* colleges.

 

[Texan]

just a little perspective

Yes, I think everyone should know that Calgary is not a coastal city, but may I put a little perspective on this.

Calgary has a population of 851,000. And other than a rodeo, what else is there of note concerning Calgary? Below is a PARTIAL list of U.S. cities that are larger than Calgary. I wonder if all Canadians are fully knowledgable on all these cities....

Albany-Schenectady-Troy, NY
Binghamton, NY
Cincinnati
Charlotte
Buffalo
Columbus
Cleveland-Akron
Dayton-Springfield, OH
Denver-Boulder-Greeley,
El Paso
Fresno
Grand Rapids
Greensboro
Greenville-Spartanburg
Hartford
Honolulu
Indianapolis
Jacksonville
Kansas City
Las Vegas
Louisville
Memphis
Miami
Minneapolis
Nashville
New Orleans
Norfolk-Virginia Beach
Oklahoma City
Orlando
Philadelphia
Phoenix
Pittsburgh
Portland-Salem
Providence
Raleigh-Durham
Richmond
Rochester
Sacramento
St. Louis
Salt Lake City
San Antonio
San Diego
San Francisco
Oakland
San Jose
Seattle
Tampa-St. Petersburg
Tucson
Washington
Baltimore
West Palm Beach
Atlantic City
Atlanta
Austin
Boston
Chicago

just a thought....

 

[Ishmael]

And the stupidity of one graduate reflects on the entire population, how? Your banks president was graduate, was he not?

Who cares? He knew that New Mexico was part of the United States, and after talking to him I suspect he would have checked before he summarily dismissed someone.

Test after test has shown that ignorance of American geography is damned near epidemic in the universities today. Is that to say ALL students are ignorant of the geography? No, not at all. Just a majority. The sad part about the tests were that foriegn students actually did better.

Ishmael

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Mischka]

Re: Re: Re: is Harvard slipping?

Translation: We don't really care.

Thanks. All this lawyer training is just making me verbose.