Is America in real trouble?

[p_p_man]

Against all my advice Bush still sent Powell to Isra-el to try and broker a cease fire. All the signs pointed to the fact that Sharon would not follow Bush's tough(?) 'without delay' command. Sharon wants the Palestinians either out of Palestine altogether, or dead. He is not defending Isra-el. He is extending it.

Powell arrived today with stories and news footage of the scenes occuring in and around the military exclusion zones in the Palestinian area arriving with him. A Palestinian suicide bomber killed more people in Jerusalem.

America's strength comes from the confidence she carries with her. And that confidence is backed up by having a superior economy and a massive war machine. If Sharon can bat aside America, in effect ignoring her and ignoring her President, where does that actually leave the United States?

All of Bush's gung-ho speeches, which most people consider infantile in the extreme, are for nothing. If nobody is going to take any notice he may as well not make them in the first place. And Powell should have stayed at home.

The rest of the world has seen the ease with which Sharon has brushed aside what used to be Isra-el's greatest ally.

How long will it be before other leaders follow his example?

And if that happens I can't see what America can do to retrieve a diminishing influence on the world stage.

ppman

 

[SINthysist]

No. Europe demanded the United States get involved. So we did.
Went over, said, "Howdy."
"What's goin' on?"
"Wustlers!"
"Rustlers, eh?"
"Hyes, wustlers."
"Hmmmm...."
"Achmmmmm...."
"Well, see ya next week neighbor..."
"Lachaim"

 

[lovetoread]

No. Europe demanded the United States get involved. So we did.
Went over, said, "Howdy."
"What's goin' on?"
"Wustlers!"
"Rustlers, eh?"
"Hyes, wustlers."
"Hmmmm...."
"Achmmmmm...."
"Well, see ya next week neighbor..."
"Lachaim"

Oh my gawd.

I must be feeling the effects of my allergy meds as this was really funny to me.

 

[JazzManJim]

And if that happens I can't see what America can do to retrieve a diminishing influence on the world stage.

Let's take a minute to remember why Secretary Powell is there trying to broker a deal.

He is there because the United States was specifically asked to go by Germany, England, Egypt, and Jordan, among others.

No one else was asked to go. No one else was even considered.

No other national diplomats are there trying to broker any sort of agreement.

That's not much of a diminishment. Again, when the world needs help, look where it turns.

 

[SINthysist]

That's right. When the representatives for the NHRE showed up, they were asked to go home...

 

[KillerMuffin]

For once, p_p_man, you're right. (Savor the moment before you read on). America is in real trouble. Not for the reasons you outlined. AJ made a funny.

 

[p_p_man]

No. Europe demanded the United States get involved. So we did.

I think you'll find that the rest of the world demanded it as well. America took no action for a week and a half before breaking silence with the "without delay" speech.

A tad too late when Sharon had the bit between his teeth by then. After the failure of Bush's first envoy to make any headway, even though he reported to the President that his mission had been successful, and after Sharon ignored his demand, even Europe was saying it would be fruitless for Bush to send such a senior man as Powell.

It's highly unlikely he is going to succeed and all that's going to happen is that he will return to America having achieved nothing.

Bush put a good man in an impossible position.

Just another indication that America, under Bush's leadership, is beginning to lose her ability to influence affairs.

ppman

 

[SINthysist]

"You want some help with 'em?"
"No, Jew just make to be sure that you are watching out for our backs..."
"Well, okay, pilgram..."

 

[kotori]

No

We have elections on regularly scheduled basis.

Bush won't win again. (Oh wait, he didn't. . .never mind, we'll live with it.)

 

[fgarvb1]

i'm going to say it anyway.

I am not suprised that Israel is doing what they are doing.

What does suprise me is that one, they did not do it years ago, and two they did not start at one side of the country and kill everyone untill they reached the other side.

To me this points out several things.

1. they have just about had enough.

2. they are not mad dog killers.

3. they can be reasoned with.

4. they know they have to live in the middle east and don't want to start anymore shit than they have to.


and p_p_man what would you have us do? we over here are not
happy with people blowing us up either.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

The rest of the world has seen the ease with which Sharon has brushed aside what used to be Isra-el's greatest ally.

How long will it be before other leaders follow his example?

How does that song go again.. you know, the one about "wishful drinking"?

 

[WriterDom]

Against all my advice Bush still sent Powell to Isra-el to try and broker a cease fire.

I can see Bush logging on early in the morning to get the latest advice from P P Man.

 

[p_p_man]

Re: i'm going to say it anyway.

and p_p_man what would you have us do? we over here are not
happy with people blowing us up either.

You did the right thing. But doing it 10 days after everyone was practically screaming at America to use her influence right from the begining, more or less nullified the action.

With the mid terms coming up and the all-powerful Jewish lobby putting pressure on Capitol Hill I should imagine Bush was more concerned with party politics than he was with Sharon.

Until it was too late.

As for not being happy about people blowing you up, you'll find the Brits don't like it either.

And we've had 40 years of it...

ppman

 

[p_p_man]

I can see Bush logging on early in the morning to get the latest advice from P P Man.

I usually get an e-mail from the White House about this time asking my advice...

 

[lavender]

 

[scylis]

America is in real trouble:

Lavy is considering being ppman's cheerleader.

that's it, it's the End Times!!

we're all doomed, i tell you!!

DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!

 

[Northern Lights]

I agree that America is losing world influence. But I see this as a positive direction. It's time for other nations to step up to their world responsibilities. I love America as much as anyone, but we've been bullying the world long enough. Check out the quality of life in other countries such as Canada and most Western European nations. We as Americans can learn much from them.

 

[Texan]

America is in real trouble:

Lavy is considering being ppman's cheerleader.

As I recall, Lavender, it was only a week or so ago that you said Bush SHOULD send Powell to Israel to broker peace. At the time, you said that Bush wasn't sending Powell because he was listening to the Cheney and "right-wingers" and had turned Powell into a figure head with no real power.

I'm paraphrasing you just a little, but I'm sure I can go find the thread if necessary.

 

[lavender]

 

[p_p_man]

As I recall, Lavender, it was only a week or so ago that you said Bush SHOULD send Powell to Israel to broker peace.

As Prime Minister Harold Wilson said in the 1960s:

"A week is a long time in politics"

 

[christo]

Bush's comments that he wanted Israel to withdraw weren't aimed at Sharon. They were for the Arab world to hear. Of course Sharon isn't going to pull out his troops because Bush asked him to. We invaded Afghanistan and are going to invade Iraq because of terrorism. And now we're going to tell Israel they can't do the same thing? No.

We need the Arab world, if not on our side, then not actively opposing us. When we go into Iraq (and it's a-coming) we want other Arab states to acquiese. Israeli tanks flattening Ramallah make that much more difficult. So Bush has to say, "Withdraw. Now." When there's nothing he can do to enforce that demand. But now Powell and other negotiators can go to Ramallah and Amman and Damascus and say, "Hey, we're trying, really."

 

[71bruce8]

Powell

What gets me is how Powell is sent to Israel. Not get there quickly, direct route, but take the long and winding road. All of a sudden go it alone America has to pause to consult it's allies along the way. Meanwhile back at the camp. Sharon gets his green light and the gore continues. P_P_man as I've said before London, Europe does not make sense to me as an adress but my ancestors got out over a century ago and why should I give a shit?

 

[lavender]

 

[p_p_man]

Re: Powell

P_P_man as I've said before London, Europe does not make sense to me as an adress but my ancestors got out over a century ago and why should I give a shit?

With your limited knowledge of the meaning behind my address I should hope you don't give a shit.

You'd only get it wrong...

 

[p_p_man]

I agree with everything ppman said except for Powell. Powell should have been sent long ago though - not now. He was more like a rubber stamp rather than a true diplomat in his capacity in the ME.

I was talking about recent events.

Yes if Powell had to go it should have been in the beginning.

But with Bush's provarication it's now too late for him to do any good.