Interesting polls in Turkey

[The Heretic]

Yep, Turkey, the country so against the war in Iraq, so against letting US troops through Turkey for any reason other than "humanitarian" purposes. Two polls:

1) How many are against US being in Iraq - 90%

2) How many are for Turkey being in Iraq - 40%

Given the Turkish record with the Kurds (not very good at all), what does this say about the motives of the Turkish populace? Are they against the US/Iraq war because of their concern for Iraqis, or are they against it because their just pissed that they didn't have the cojones to do it themselves?

 

[Astro]

The Kurdish forces in Turkey are terriost forces. It seems very interesting how these forces are seen in a green light whenever America needs them.

 

[phrodeau]

Aren't the US troops in Iraq for humanitarian purposes?

 

[Astro]

Humanitarian - as in giving food and water not rolling in an armoured column I think.

 

[The Heretic]

The Kurdish forces in Turkey are terriost forces. It seems very interesting how these forces are seen in a green light whenever America needs them.

Really? You mean Turkey doesn't want to go into Iraq for the northern oil fields? They don't want to take care of the "Kurd problem" once and for all? Please.

Finally, I wasn't talking about the Kurds in Turkey, in fact I didn't even mention the Kurds at all - I was talking about the hypocritical attitude of Turkish citizens 90% of whom didn't want the US in Iraq, but 40% of whom don't see a problem with Turkey going into Iraq - especially considering the record of Turkey killing and repressing Kurds (not much better than Saddam's record, just not as well known because Turkey is a NATO member and supposed ally of the US).

 

[Astro]

So Turkey, who hasnt put troops into Iraq are helping America. If they had the Kurdish militia would have been hostile.

Saddam used chemical warfare to kill the Kurds, the Turkish have never done so. They capture Kurdish terriosts and imprison them same as any other country would.

Turkey could send more than 200,000 men into Iraq if they wanted those oilfields.

 

[Guest]

Pandora's box is open. There'll be decades of fighting now.

Iraq will want the coallition troops out as soon as infrastructures are repaired and then it'll be every arab for himself - grab what you can get. It's always been like that through history.

I think GM better hurry with perfecting that steam driven car.

 

[The Heretic]

So Turkey, who hasnt put troops into Iraq are helping America. If they had the Kurdish militia would have been hostile.

Turkey didn't put troops into Iraq because we basically told them in no uncertain terms to stay out of Iraq - the US was afraid of a blood bath, and justifiably so.

Saddam used chemical warfare to kill the Kurds, the Turkish have never done so. They capture Kurdish terriosts and imprison them same as any other country would.

Turkey has murdered and repressed Kurds for decades and longer. Whether they murder them with death squads, or kill them in a "military action", the Kurds are just as dead as if Saddam had gassed them. Turkey has a very bad record with the Kurds, and any objective knowledgeable person would acknowledge that.

Turkey could send more than 200,000 men into Iraq if they wanted those oilfields.

Oh they want the oil fields - they want them very badly, but they know if they made a move to take them we would bomb the shit out any military they sent in. They keep making noises about sending in their military for "humanitarian purposes", and we keep telling them "don't do it if you don't want your dick cut off in the process". Previously they were afraid of either Saddam or the US doing just that for them.

 

[Astro]

So lets see, if Turkey sent in troops to Iraq, America would would bomb a NATO ally. Interesting.

 

[Master Control]

I like turkey oven roasted

 

[The Heretic]

So lets see, if Turkey sent in troops to Iraq, America would would bomb a NATO ally. Interesting.

Yep - that's what I said. If you had been paying attention the last month or so you would have heard the US strongly warning Turkey to stay the fuck out Iraq and why. The threat of retaliation wasn't made public, but I am sure it was communicated.

Of course, what I meant was that the US would take on the Turkish forces in Iraq, not bomb Turkey itself.

 

[Astro]

Well thankfully you aint in charge of your country. Attacking allied troops on purpose would be the lowest of the low.

Turkey told America that it wasnt allowed to send troops in through Turkey, America huffed.

Turkey never said it was certainly going to send troops in Iraq, they moved them close to the border, a sensible thing to do when Coalition planes are flying from their Airbases.

 

[The Heretic]

Well thankfully you aint in charge of your country.

Actually I am; the President works for me - that is how our country works.

Attacking allied troops on purpose would be the lowest of the low.

It would be the highest of the high moral ground to tell an ally that we wouldn't allow them to go into a country and extend their record of murdering and repressing Kurds - people we have no real interest in protecting other than the fact that they are innocent humans worth of protection - and then to actually follow through. It would have been a lot more expedient to let the Turks have their way, and we have done so in the past with them and others in similar situations (Vietnam would never have happened if we had done the right thing and backed Vietnam against the French).

Turkey told America that it wasnt allowed to send troops in through Turkey, America huffed.

Yes they did, and yes we did - the diplomacy and negotiations were very badly handled on all levels, but in the end it was Turkey that lost out (on 7 Billion Dollars).

Turkey never said it was certainly going to send troops in Iraq, they moved them close to the border, a sensible thing to do when Coalition planes are flying from their Airbases.

You are obviously as poorly informed about recent events in the area as you are about Turkey's record with the Kurds.

For a while there (a day or two) a lot of people were holding their breath hoping that Bush wouldn't cave and let the Turks into Iraq - fortunately he didn't cave and a bloodbath was averted.

 

[Pagliacci]

The Kurdish forces in Turkey are terriost forces. It seems very interesting how these forces are seen in a green light whenever America needs them.

There are no Kurds existing according to official Turkish parlance.
They're "Mountain Turks".
There is no such thing as a Kurdish culture or language.

 

[Astro]

Actually I am; the President works for me - that is how our country works.

Well you didnt elect him so I guessed he worked for himself.

Yes they did, and yes we did - the diplomacy and negotiations were very badly handled on all levels, but in the end it was Turkey that lost out (on 7 Billion Dollars).

And lost of self-respect

You are obviously as poorly informed about recent events in the area as you are about Turkey's record with the Kurds.

Sure I am so ill-informed, just been to Turkey three times, have a Turkish brother in law and extended family in Turkey.

 

[April]

According to the poll you posted, Heretic, 60% of Turks are against sending their troops into Iraq. That sounds quite reasonable to me.

I can't speak to the Kurdish situation, as my knowledge is next to nothing. However, Turkey has sent troops over the border, but their politicians have vigorously denied this, even while their military commanders have acknowledged it. Germany, a NATO member, threatened them with withdrawal of German members of the NATO protection mission. Turkey insisted quite adamantly that they had not sent troops across the border, and Germany backed down, accepting the Turkish denial. So all is quiet again in make-believe land.

 

[The Heretic]

Sure I am so ill-informed, just been to Turkey three times, have a Turkish brother in law and extended family in Turkey.

I rest my case.

 

[The Heretic]

According to the poll you posted, Heretic, 60% of Turks are against sending their troops into Iraq. That sounds quite reasonable to me.

Actually, I believe the number against was 55% (I assume the rest were undecided/didn't know or some other position).

What I found interesting was the disparity between how many Turks thought it was okay for their military to go into the Kurdish area of Iraq (but not the US) given their history with the Kurds, but Astro makes it clear why; they are woefully uninformed/misinformed with regards to their country's record with regards to Kurds, or they believe the racist bullshit about Kurds, or both. Sad, but at least the US leadership for once did the right thing - at least in this regard.

As for the Germans/etc. - yep, you are correct; interesting that so many people (besides Turks and people with family in Turkey ) object so strongly to Turkey being in close proximity to Kurds - more people than object to the US being in Iraq. Kind of tells you something doesn't it?

 

[The Heretic]

Hmmm... I am not so crazy after all?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/897639.asp

"TURKEY considers Kurdish control of the Iraqi oil fields a security threat, and if the Kurds enter either city, Ozkok will face the most important decision of his 44-year military career: whether to order an invasion of northern Iraq that could lead to clashes between his troops and those of the United States and its Kurdish allies."

http://www.msnbc.com/news/889105.asp

"Responsibility for the health and safety of the people would mean, legal experts say, that the United States would be obligated to come to the defense of the Kurds in northern Iraq if they came under attack from the Turks."

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Turkey never said it was certainly going to send troops in Iraq, they moved them close to the border, a sensible thing to do when Coalition planes are flying from their Airbases.

Actually, Turkey did make a recommendation and even announced that they were going to send their troops across the border to "stabilize" the situation. Their ambassador said that they were going to go across the border to set up "refugee" camps to "care" for the Iraqis displaced by the coalition forces.

LOL...they were going to "care" for the Iraqis.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Howdy Heretic...I hope the new job is going well.

 

[The Heretic]

Howdy Heretic...I hope the new job is going well.

So far so good. Been busy earning money.

 

[sufisaint]

I hope we give the Kurds their deserved reward for being our brothers in arms...the turks..cannot be trusted.

 

[MunchinMark]

Of course, if the propaganda of Islamic militants has any sway in Turkey (it does with several British Muslims, so I'd say it works in Turkey too), then this is a war between Christian America and Islamic Iraq. Bad.

A war between two Islamic states seems to be perfectly fine.

I can't see Turkey attacking Iraqi Kurds just for the hell of it. Why go into another country to attack an ethnic group when there are plenty at home? Northern oil fields it is then.