If America had a multiparty system, which party would you join/support? (poll]

If America had a multiparty system, which party would you join/support?

  • Libertarian Party

    Votes: 12 34.3%
  • Constitution Party

    Votes: 6 17.1%
  • Republican Party

    Votes: 1 2.9%
  • Democratic Party

    Votes: 2 5.7%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 3 8.6%
  • Working Families Party

    Votes: 5 14.3%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 6 17.1%

  • Total voters
    35

KingOrfeo

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Posts
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Spinoff of this thread on proportional representation.

What we have now in America is called a "first-past-the-post/winner-take-all" system combined with a "single-member-district" system: The legislature's jurisdictional territory is divided into geographic districts of roughly equal population, and each district elects one representative by majority-or-plurality vote. ("Plurality" meaning you can win the seat with fewer than 50% of the votes cast, so long as you get more votes than any other candidate for the seat.) That's the system we use to elect the House, every state legislature, and most other multimember policymaking bodies. (Some county commissions and city councils are elected "at large," which is less democratic still -- that's another discussion.)

The problem with that electoral system, from any third-partisan's point of view, is that it naturally forces a two-party political system. Consider: Suppose, in your state's next election to the state legislature, 10% of the voters vote Libertarian (or substitute Green, or Socialist, or Constitution Party, whatever, same mechanics apply) -- how many Libertarians get elected? None, because there are not enough Libertarians in any one district to form a plurality. No political party, therefore, can make it save by being a "big tent" party -- which leads to the confusion as to, e.g., just what the GOP stands for these days, when it includes libertarians and paleocons and neocons and theocons and bizcons and those factions don't always see eye-to-eye. That is why America has always had a two-party political system, except when it had a one-party system. There is no room for more than two.

Under a proportional representation system (which most of the world's democracies use, in one form or another -- there are several forms), OTOH, if the Libertarians get 10% of the votes, they get (more or less) 10% of the seats.

If we had proportional representation, it would allow aa multiparty system to develop. I think the emergent lineup in Congress and the state legislatures might look something like this:

Libertarian Party: libertarian -- consistently, on economic and social issues, but probably less radically ideological than it is now; even with PR it would have to moderate somewhat to hope to win even 5-10% of the vote.

Constitution Party: Social-religious conservative and paleoconservative; anti-abortion, pro-school-prayer, etc.; nativist and anti-immigrant; economic-populist -- trade-protectionist, anti-big-biz, anti-Wall-Street, anti-Fed; isolationist/pacifist in foreign/military policy. The paleocon America First Party -- formed by Pat Buchanan's faction when the Reform Party broke up -- is just barely around any more; I suspect it would merge with the Constitution Party. (White Nationalists would find their home in this one -- they are not numerous enough to form a successful party of their own even in a PR system, and this would be the nearest thing to their world-view.)

Republican Party: The remnant after the libertarians and paleocons exit. Pro-big-business-interests; hawkish-neoconservative in foreign/military policy.

Democratic Party: The remnant after the lefties exit, see below. Moderately liberal, meaning neoliberal, trade-globalist -- pro-biz like the Republicans, but moderately pro-welfare-state; liberal-internationalist in foreign/military policy.

Green Party: Environmentalist, decentralist, pacifist, etc.

Working Families Party: Social-democratic/progressive; pro-organized-labor; sympathetic with the Greens, but different from the Greens in their emphasis. (Not a socialist party, but actual socialists -- the sort who want socialism instead of capitalism -- would find their home in this one, not being numerous enough to go it alone even in a PR system.)

I think that covers the whole spectrum of political factions/ideologies currently present among the general population in America -- or at least, the population of people who think about politics at all.

It would certainly make for a more interesting Congress, wouldn't it? Every committee would have representatives from every party in it.

Of course, there would be no majority party in Congress or in any state legislature -- not ever again, probably -- so, no bill would get passed unless two or more parties got behind it. Which is not necessarily a bad thing (especially from a Libertarian POV).

E.g.: Wanna legalize pot? Fine, at least with this system you can get that bill to the floor; the Libertarians will sponsor it and the Greens will (for this one issue, at least) be right with them; but you'll have to craft a case to sell it to a majority.

So: What party would you support? (I'd be Working Families.)
 
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Probably working families in that paradigm.

I'm green except that I'm not pacifist. I think pacifist civilizations are pretty and all, but they get mown over by less pacifist neighbors. I've played "Civilization."
 
Well, i´m live in a Country with a multiparty system,
sometimes it makes sense to protect our system.
 
If I wasn't a durty forriner....


I don't know. Thing is, I'm philosophically libertarian. The general, vauge principle of minimal government impact appeals to me.

But most libertarians are unfortunately either zealots or idiots. So when it comes down to realpolitik, I probably could not reconcile with people who want to propose well meaning policies based on insane presuppositions. Supply-side Jesus and all that jazz.

Depending on where they stand on some issues, I might go Green.
 
Probably working families in that paradigm.

I'm green except that I'm not pacifist. I think pacifist civilizations are pretty and all, but they get mown over by less pacifist neighbors. I've played "Civilization."

True, but the U.S. is one country that could afford a lot more pacifism than we've got now. We're a continental power and we have two nice big oceans for moats. No country in the Western Hemisphere will be a credible military threat to us in your lifetime or mine; neither will any non-nuclear power in the Eastern Hemisphere; neither will any petty nuclear power like North Korea. If we stay friends with China and Russia, that's all we need to do to be safe, isn't it?
 
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True, but the U.S. is one country that could afford a lot more pacifism than we've got now. We're a continental power and we have two nice big oceans for moats. No country in the Western Hemisphere will be a credible military threat to us in your lifetime or mine; neither will any non-nuclear power in the Eastern Hemisphere; neither will any petty nuclear power like North Korea. If we stay friends with China and Russia, that's all we need to do to be safe, isn't it?

I am hoping that we learned through example that screwing around with other people's economies and politics is a bad idea.
 
Forget chosing a party, its pointless.....the person you elect has no desire to solve any of this nations problems...he'd or she'd be out of work if they did and then what would they do without all the power that the jobs they have give them?
Its just one long finger pointing act to keep you busy till you don't care or die!
 
And just imagine if every presidential debate had six candidates . . . Unwieldy, but much more interesting.

That brings up another thing -- Instant-Runoff Voting: For filling a single seat, presidency, governorship, mayorship, etc.; though it could also be used to elect legislators. The way it is now, if there are more than two candidates in the race, you have to pick just one -- which presents the "spoiler" problem -- in 2000, a vote for Buchanan was a vote for Gore and vote for Nader was a vote for Bush. With IRV, you get to rank-order the candidates by preference; if your first choice does not get a majority, your vote still counts to elect your second choice. E.g., you could have voted "1 -- Buchanan; 2 - Bush; 3 - Gore; 4 - Nader"; or, "1 - Nader; 2 - Gore; 3 - Bush; 4 - Buchanan"; or whatever order-of-preference seems best to you. (Approval voting is the same thing without the rank-ordering.)

See also Electoral fusion: Simply, one candidate running as the nominee of more than one party (and, perhaps, on more than one ballot line). This strengthens a third party by putting it in a position to offer its endorsement to a major-party candidate (conditional, presumably, on the candidate adopting public positions somewhat closer to the third party's), which could make all the difference in close races. Fusion is now illegal in most states, however.

Electoral fusion was once widespread in the United States. In the late nineteenth century, however, as minor political parties such as the People's Party became increasingly successful in using fusion, state legislatures enacted bans against it. One Republican Minnesota state legislator was clear about what his party was trying to do: "We don't propose to allow the Democrats to make allies of the Populists, Prohibitionists, or any other party, and get up combination tickets against us. We can whip them single-handed, but don't intend to fight all creation."[3] The creation of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party made this particular tactical position obsolete. By 1907 the practice had been banned in 18 states; today, fusion as conventionally practiced remains legal in only eight states, namely:

Connecticut
Delaware
Idaho
Mississippi
New York
Oregon
South Carolina
Vermont

In several other states, notably New Hampshire, fusion is legal when primary elections are won by write-in candidates.

The cause of electoral fusion suffered a major setback in 1997, when the U.S. Supreme Court decided by 6-3 in Timmons v. Twin Cities Area New Party that fusion is not a constitutionally protected civil right.
 
i would most likely support the working families party.
 
Eliminate parties, they're evil. George Washington warned about them. Candidates should be judged on their positions, not for which party they belong to. But for now, I'll go with the party that has the smallest govt and most liberty for me.

Parties are, among many other things, a very convenient content-label for voters who don't have the time to keep track of what every singe candidate stands for. Or at least they would be if they were not just these two multi-tendency big-tent parties.
 
Probably libertarian, except I don't believe in some of their views.

I do take exception with their views on National Defense and Immigration.
 
There is no party for a pro-lactation, anti-military industrial complex, strong immigration law proponent to join.

Therefore, much like sex, I'm on my own.
 
There is no party for a pro-lactation, anti-military industrial complex, strong immigration law proponent to join.

Therefore, much like sex, I'm on my own.

Well you could become a Rational Anarchist and sit on the border with a machine gun.
 
Probably libertarian, except I don't believe in some of their views.

I do take exception with their views on National Defense and Immigration.

Don't the KKK have a party you could join?
 
Independent.

I like thinking for myself and voting for the canditates and parties that I think will represent my interests, which are more diverse than any one party.

That being said, I've voted Libertarian more often than not in the last 10 years
 
Spinoff of this thread on proportional representation.

What we have now in America is called a "first-past-the-post/winner-take-all" system combined with a "single-member-district" system: The legislature's jurisdictional territory is divided into geographic districts of roughly equal population, and each district elects one representative by majority-or-plurality vote. ("Plurality" meaning you can win the seat with fewer than 50% of the votes cast, so long as you get more votes than any other candidate for the seat.) That's the system we use to elect the House, every state legislature, and most other multimember policymaking bodies. (Some county commissions and city councils are elected "at large," which is less democratic still -- that's another discussion.)

The problem with that electoral system, from any third-partisan's point of view, is that it naturally forces a two-party political system. Consider: Suppose, in your state's next election to the state legislature, 10% of the voters vote Libertarian (or substitute Green, or Socialist, or Constitution Party, whatever, same mechanics apply) -- how many Libertarians get elected? None, because there are not enough Libertarians in any one district to form a plurality. No political party, therefore, can make it save by being a "big tent" party -- which leads to the confusion as to, e.g., just what the GOP stands for these days, when it includes libertarians and paleocons and neocons and theocons and bizcons and those factions don't always see eye-to-eye. That is why America has always had a two-party political system, except when it had a one-party system. There is no room for more than two.

Under a proportional representation system (which most of the world's democracies use, in one form or another -- there are several forms), OTOH, if the Libertarians get 10% of the votes, they get (more or less) 10% of the seats.

If we had proportional representation, it would allow aa multiparty system to develop. I think the emergent lineup in Congress and the state legislatures might look something like this:

Libertarian Party: libertarian -- consistently, on economic and social issues, but probably less radically ideological than it is now; even with PR it would have to moderate somewhat to hope to win even 5-10% of the vote.

Constitution Party: Social-religious conservative and paleoconservative; anti-abortion, pro-school-prayer, etc.; nativist and anti-immigrant; economic-populist -- trade-protectionist, anti-big-biz, anti-Wall-Street, anti-Fed; isolationist/pacifist in foreign/military policy. The paleocon America First Party -- formed by Pat Buchanan's faction when the Reform Party broke up -- is just barely around any more; I suspect it would merge with the Constitution Party. (White Nationalists would find their home in this one -- they are not numerous enough to form a successful party of their own even in a PR system, and this would be the nearest thing to their world-view.)

Republican Party: The remnant after the libertarians and paleocons exit. Pro-big-business-interests; hawkish-neoconservative in foreign/military policy.

Democratic Party: The remnant after the lefties exit, see below. Moderately liberal, meaning neoliberal, trade-globalist -- pro-biz like the Republicans, but moderately pro-welfare-state; liberal-internationalist in foreign/military policy.

Green Party: Environmentalist, decentralist, pacifist, etc.

Working Families Party: Social-democratic/progressive; pro-organized-labor; sympathetic with the Greens, but different from the Greens in their emphasis. (Not a socialist party, but actual socialists -- the sort who want socialism instead of capitalism -- would find their home in this one, not being numerous enough to go it alone even in a PR system.)

I think that covers the whole spectrum of political factions/ideologies currently present among the general population in America -- or at least, the population of people who think about politics at all.

It would certainly make for a more interesting Congress, wouldn't it? Every committee would have representatives from every party in it.

Of course, there would be no majority party in Congress or in any state legislature -- not ever again, probably -- so, no bill would get passed unless two or more parties got behind it. Which is not necessarily a bad thing (especially from a Libertarian POV).

E.g.: Wanna legalize pot? Fine, at least with this system you can get that bill to the floor; the Libertarians will sponsor it and the Greens will (for this one issue, at least) be right with them; but you'll have to craft a case to sell it to a majority.

So: What party would you support? (I'd be Working Families.)

Hitler had the same sort of system when he came to power. He blamed all the small parties for the serious problems in Germany, and rolled over them. The communists and social democrats hated each other, so he egged them on, and conquered both. Its harder to crush the small-fry when theyre part of a larger organization.
 
This county has like one Democrat official, 40 years ago it was 100% Democrat. The Democrats outnumber the GOP here but the Democrat candidates are all of them crazee as shithouse rats, and lose every election.
 
True, but the U.S. is one country that could afford a lot more pacifism than we've got now. We're a continental power and we have two nice big oceans for moats. No country in the Western Hemisphere will be a credible military threat to us in your lifetime or mine; neither will any non-nuclear power in the Eastern Hemisphere; neither will any petty nuclear power like North Korea. If we stay friends with China and Russia, that's all we need to do to be safe, isn't it?

Nations have neither permanent friends or permanent allies, only permanent interests.

At this stage of the game, the US's primary goal is to keep potential regional powers destabilized enough so they won't be able to develop the capability to become a threat in the future.

Russia is currently focused on re-establishing it's sphere of influence in it's near-abroad.

China is more focused on internal stability than foreign interests, but if they do become much of a threat, look for muslim uprisings in the western provinces, financed and supported by the US or proxy states/interests

Mexico is the most vialbe long term threat to the US at this point.
 
It does have a multiparty system. People just have to stop letting themselves believe the "you are throwing away your vote" bullshit.

I just unenrolled as a Democrat and am now a card carrying Libertarian and I am looking forward to voting for Gary Johnson

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