I Wonder

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Can you write a story that 100% phenomenal?

 

[sheablue]

Absolutely. But isn't phenomenal in the eye of the beholder?

 

[lovecraft68]

Can you write a story that 100% phenomenal?

That readers would consider phenominal? Or that I would consider phenominal?

All subjective. What I think is good might be a bucket of suck to you.

 

[sheablue]

That readers would consider phenominal? Or that I would consider phenominal?

All subjective. What I think is good might be a bucket of suck to you.

"A bucket of suck"

Omg, I'm totally adding that to my vernacular. You mind?

 

[lovecraft68]

"A bucket of suck"

Omg, I'm totally adding that to my vernacular. You mind?

Go right ahead. I can't recall where I first heard it but I've been saying it for years.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PHENOMENAL means pure description, the description tells the story. The best example I found James Joyce wrote.

Lemme give you an example from my history.

Bob and Margaret sat of the sofa making out, Jimbo sat in a rocking chair watching LAUGHIN, Nelle, Margarets sister, was in the kitchen dumping chips in a bowl and pouring Cokes into glasses. Outside it was storming.

The lights went off when lightning struck across the street from the house. Margaret giggled. Someone sat on Jimbo's lap and pressed her lips against his mouth. After a while she got off his lap, took his hand, and led him to her bedroom.

 

[TxRad]

PHENOMENAL means pure description, the description tells the story. The best example I found James Joyce wrote.

Lemme give you an example from my history.

Bob and Margaret sat of the sofa making out, Jimbo sat in a rocking chair watching LAUGHIN, Nelle, Margarets sister, was in the kitchen dumping chips in a bowl and pouring Cokes into glasses. Outside it was storming.

The lights went off when lightning struck across the street from the house. Margaret giggled. Someone sat on Jimbo's lap and pressed her lips against his mouth. After a while she got off his lap, took his hand, and led him to her bedroom.

Ah, tell instead of show.

The exact opposite of what most writers do after they learn something about writing.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Ah, tell instead of show.

The exact opposite of what most writers do after they learn something about writing.

James Joyce pulled it off, and I dont like James Joyce.

 

[sheablue]

James Joyce pulled it off, and I dont like James Joyce.

James Joyce is a special case, I think. He may have been a genius, but you either love him or hate him. His style is very ... jarring. I'm not a huge fan, either, but I can't deny he knew what he was doing. Attempting that style without a real knack for it would be a disaster, I think. Joyce was all about the space between the words, don't you think? It was all in what he was saying behind the words.

So, if that's what you mean by phenomenal, I change my answer. I'm not sure I could do it. At lease not well. Maybe in short form, it would be interesting to try, as an exercise. But with the length that Joyce employed? No way.

 

[JackLuis]

I think it could be pulled off if you framed it as a story told by a Character as a personal account.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

James Joyce is a special case, I think. He may have been a genius, but you either love him or hate him. His style is very ... jarring. I'm not a huge fan, either, but I can't deny he knew what he was doing. Attempting that style without a real knack for it would be a disaster, I think. Joyce was all about the space between the words, don't you think? It was all in what he was saying behind the words.

So, if that's what you mean by phenomenal, I change my answer. I'm not sure I could do it. At lease not well. Maybe in short form, it would be interesting to try, as an exercise. But with the length that Joyce employed? No way.

I dont know if I can do it, I know I cant match Joyce at it, but still I wanna play with it, to see whats possible. I could do it with the Nelle thing, after we were in her bedroom and cozy, my friend Bob busts thru the door with Margarets husband chasing him, Bob went out the window. So theres a story there.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I think it could be pulled off if you framed it as a story told by a Character as a personal account.

I'm thinking the same thing.

 

[sr71plt]

Where again are you getting that definition? Phenomenal means "known through the senses rather than thought or intuition." Your example passages have nothing to do with the senses.

So, again, what is your source for saying phenomenal writing is descriptive writing?

 

[sheablue]

It would be an interesting exercise, and probably hard to write in a way that goes against what we are taught as young writers. But Joyce also used a lot of stream of consciousness writing, which I also think is hard. It's his mix of the two (or more) styles that really set him apart and placed him in the "avante garde" category. Or crackpot category. Tomato, tomahto ...

I'd be interested to see how you get along!

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It would be an interesting exercise, and probably hard to write in a way that goes against what we are taught as young writers. But Joyce also used a lot of stream of consciousness writing, which I also think is hard. It's his mix of the two (or more) styles that really set him apart and placed him in the "avante garde" category. Or crackpot category. Tomato, tomahto ...

I'd be interested to see how you get along!

I'll give it a whirl, the challenge is stretching it to 750 words.

Margaret had a blue eye, and a brown eye. Her sister Nelle had bad teeth and a beautiful smile in the dark, Jim could feel it with his fingertips.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/joyceselection.html

THE JOYCE PROSE.

 

[sr71plt]

Please cite where you got your definition of "phenomenal" writing, JBJ (because I sort of think you're making some posters here think you know stuff about writing, especially erotica writing, that you don't--and are leading them down a thorny garden path).

The example you gave of it is pretty awful.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

PILOT reminds me of the babysitter who rifles your drawers and sniffs the jar of Vaseline.

 

[sr71plt]

JBJ, you are shotgunning the AH with "how-tos" on stuff that is really just the blind trying to lead the blind. You apparently read a whole lot of established authors' advice, but you aren't anywhere close to mastering any of that in your own writing or in helping anyone else to take what is of value to their own writing from your regurgitation of sometimes godawful suggestions (e.g., needing to look at a sentence in 20 or 50 different variations for any reason whatsoever).

From what I've read of what you write--and finally have started to post to Literotica--I think your style is fine and your subject matter, although gritty, is interesting. It also is incomplete (you really just are setting up stories; you don't carry them through to any sort of change/resolution--or sometimes even specific dilemma that justifies writing up this particular situation) and it isn't erotica. It's also pretty clear that you haven't really tried much writing of your own before now (in contrast to what you claimed for years).

You cite a lot of reading you do on how to write. You don't demonstrate that you understand how much of it applies to actual writing (although you occasionally have your finger on a truism--but more often than not it seems to come from shotgunned regurgitation of what you read rather than what you discovered by actual writing) and you set yourself up here as model for what Literotica erotic writers should be doing--while more often than not trying to lead them to do something that is godawful for erotica writing.

So, maybe you should spend some time on actually learning to write yourself and less time in regurgitating stuff you don't really understand as something that other writers here should be doing.

 

[sr71plt]

PILOT reminds me of the babysitter who rifles your drawers and sniffs the jar of Vaseline.

If this your answer to a request for a citation where you got that notion that the definition of "phenonemal" writing is descriptive writing (as you gave in that example)? If so, I think other writers here would be idiots to be walking down a garden path with you in terms of how they should be writing.

 

[lovecraft68]

Ah, tell instead of show.

The exact opposite of what most writers do after they learn something about writing.

Yeah, I got blasted for that a lot from my first editor. I still fall into it quite often and end up "letting it fly" then going back and fixing it.

 

[lovecraft68]

What I am starting to find interesting in JB's threads are these talented authors he mentions and examples that are given.

Also a lot of stuff on how the greats say to write.

When I started writing as a kid it was just all natural, whatever I wanted to do I did. When I recently picked up writing again about 4 years ago it was the same.'

I don;t compare what I do to what anyone else does "great" or otherwise. I don't buy How to write" books. I don;t worry about whether or not I'm doing it right I just do.

I wonder in general if this is a good thing? I'm sure I might be missing out on some things, but I also feel when you look at enough material like this you can find yourself trying to force yourself to do something that is not naturally there.

In closing I'll add That I have clicked on links that people have provided here on some grammar issues and a few other things. I'm certainly aware I have a lot to learn, but not sure if "studying" successful writers is the way to go.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What I am starting to find interesting in JB's threads are these talented authors he mentions and examples that are given.

Also a lot of stuff on how the greats say to write.

When I started writing as a kid it was just all natural, whatever I wanted to do I did. When I recently picked up writing again about 4 years ago it was the same.'

I don;t compare what I do to what anyone else does "great" or otherwise. I don't buy How to write" books. I don;t worry about whether or not I'm doing it right I just do.

I wonder in general if this is a good thing? I'm sure I might be missing out on some things, but I also feel when you look at enough material like this you can find yourself trying to force yourself to do something that is not naturally there.

In closing I'll add That I have clicked on links that people have provided here on some grammar issues and a few other things. I'm certainly aware I have a lot to learn, but not sure if "studying" successful writers is the way to go.

Your post has to be the most illogical crap I've come across today. Do you read what you post?

I'll tell you what was said to me when I was 18 and blabbered the same shit to a prominent author:YOULL SAVE YOURSELF A LOT OF TIME IF YOU LEARN FROM THE BEST. YOU CAN SPEND YEARS RE-DISCOVERING THE WHEEL AND FIRE AND SLICED BREAD.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

ANUTHER EXAMPLE OF PHENOMENAL STYLE from ALL THE PAINTED PONIES by Cormac McCarthy:

The candleflame and the image of the candleflame caught in the pierglass twisted and righted when he entered the hall and again when he shut the door. He took off his hat and came slowly forward. The floorboards creaked under his boots. In his black suit he stood in the dark glass where the lilies leaned so palely from their waisted cutglass vase. Along the cold hallway behind him hung the portraits....


It was dark outside and cold and no wind. In the distance a calf bawled. He stood with his hat in his hand.

 

[lovecraft68]

Your post has to be the most illogical crap I've come across today. Do you read what you post?

I'll tell you what was said to me when I was 18 and blabbered the same shit to a prominent author:YOULL SAVE YOURSELF A LOT OF TIME IF YOU LEARN FROM THE BEST. YOU CAN SPEND YEARS RE-DISCOVERING THE WHEEL AND FIRE AND SLICED BREAD.

But not everyone wants to be a clone JB.

I'm not saying there aren't tips one can pick up, but imitation stifles creativity.