Writing a sequel based on another authors old work

[SolarClint]

Ok I read a story that begs for a part 2. The author has stopped writing and hasn’t posted since 2017. How can I write the sequel without plagiarism?

 

[DreamingOfMyEx]

Ok I read a story that begs for a part 2. The author has stopped writing and hasn’t posted since 2017. How can I write the sequel without plagiarism?

Following. I asked the almost identical question a while back and .... well, let's see what the answers are this time around.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I'm gonna jump in before the usual discussion starts:

As long as you don't copy anything from the original author, and only publish what you wrote yourself... you're good.
If you then go and credit the author of the first part with a link to send some additional viewers their way, you're pretty much golden on here.

 

[SimonDoom]

If you give credit, it won't be plagiarism, but if you don't get express permission it will be copyright infringement, which this Site forbids. Some people do this anyway and get away with it, because enforcement at this Site can sometimes lax or inconsistent, but most of us think this is wrong to do.

It's a black and white issue for me: you should not write a sequel to another author's story without express permission, regardless of how long it's been since they've written or whether you are able to reach them.

 

[StillStunned]

Even if you're not copying any of their writing, you're using their characters and/or worldbuilding and piggybacking on their work. Either get their explicit permission, or else create your own world and characters.

 

[AchtungNight]

I’m generally with StillStunned. However, since I’m okay with fanfic (I better be, I write it), if the story is high enough quality, I might be willing to forgive and make it at least alternative universe canon. Difficult standard to achieve, you have to respect existing canon and write your alternate take well. Probably more likely if you discuss your story with me first.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Just No. AS @StillStunned said, you're using a significant amount of their work without permission. That's plagiarism. I don't think you'd get a pass for FanFic in this instance.

 

[StillStunned]

I’m generally with StillStunned. However, since I’m okay with fanfic (I better be, I write it), if the story is high enough quality, I might be willing to forgive and make it at least alternative universe canon. Difficult standard to achieve, you have to respect existing canon and write your alternate take well. Probably more likely if you discuss your story with me first.

I think the difference with fanfic is that no-one's going to mistake a Star Wars/Lethal Weapon/Hobbit/Big Time Rush story for your original work. Even if you credit the original author, readers will skim past the credit and only remember the actual story.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If you give credit, it won't be plagiarism, but if you don't get express permission it will be copyright infringement, which this Site forbids. Some people do this anyway and get away with it, because enforcement at this Site can sometimes lax or inconsistent, but most of us think this is wrong to do.

It's a black and white issue for me: you should not write a sequel to another author's story without express permission, regardless of how long it's been since they've written or whether you are able to reach them.

I agree but the site does allow celeb and fanfic and you won't find any stories on lit that have permission from Marvel Comics or Taylor Swift to use the characters in any way, let alone erotic, so the site does have one bigass loophole for copyright infringement and personal defamation.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I’m generally with StillStunned. However, since I’m okay with fanfic (I better be, I write it), if the story is high enough quality, I might be willing to forgive and make it at least alternative universe canon. Difficult standard to achieve, you have to respect existing canon and write your alternate take well. Probably more likely if you discuss your story with me first.

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but smirk when reading this.

So, you're gonna make the fanfic someone wrote to the fanfic you wrote to someone else's canon an "alternative universe canon"? That's... a bold statement.

Look, I get it, we're in the Author's Hangout. People here have a vested interest in having their work remain unique, and want to keep their options open if they drop half a story they may or may not continue a decade later. So, of course you won't like it if someone else finishes that story before you get around to do it. But the simple fact is, you can't copyright an idea. As long as OP simply writes a continuation without copying anything off the existing story, there won't be a copyright infringement. And as long as OP attributes the author of the original work, there also won't be any plagiarism, regardless of how we feel about it.

So, personally, I think instead of telling people to not write something they have every right to write, maybe us authors should just take it as a lesson to not leave half-finished stuff on the internet and expect it to somehow, magically, be protected my imaginary laws.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Not something I’m in favour of, but that Fanfic loophole is indeed there. I’ve never been interested, but if you do, I’d be lavish with attribution and praise. Even then, I’d try to get permission first.

 

[Katie_Mae]

As mentioned, this was asked a little while ago, and there are some people here who are strongly against doing this.

My recollection of the official line is (someone correct me if I recall it wrong) Fanfic is allowed. BUT, Laurel doesn't want to deal with the drama that can come with people writing fanfics of Lit author's stories. So she asks if you're writing a fanfic of a Lit author you get consent first. If a lit author asks her to take down a fanfic of their work, she will, even if you were given permission in the first place.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

But the simple fact is, you can't copyright an idea. As long as OP simply writes a continuation without copying anything off the existing story, there won't be a copyright infringement.

Oh yes you can. All registered copyrights and patents are ideas, concepts, nothing more. As for fanfic, if you or I were to write a story involving Han Solo, Frozen Ilsa, Christian Grey, Batman and Harley or John Wick, we are in direct copyright infringement, even if our plots have nothing to do with any of the original work. Not only are those stories copyrighted but so are the characters.

Write yourself a Star Wars universe script and try to sell it. See how far you get before lawyers call you.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Oh yes you can. All registered copyrights and patents are ideas, concepts, nothing more. As for fanfic, if you or I were to write a story involving Han Solo, Frozen Ilsa, Christian Grey, Batman and Harley or John Wick, we are in direct copyright infringement, even if our plots have nothing to do with any of the original work. Not only are those stories copyrighted but so are the characters.

Write yourself a Star Wars universe script and try to sell it. See how far you get before lawyers call you.

Yeah, let's not engage in a philosophy debate in a thread that's about (luckily) clearly defined rules, regularions, and laws regarding copyright and plagiarism.

The first time I saw a discussion about this topic, I realized that I'm not a lawyer... so, when I got my first message by someone asking if I had a problem with them writing an alternative version of my first book, I called one who specializes in copyright and trademark law. And, according to her, I CAN write a Star Wars script (though she used Harry Potter as an example), as long as I don't copy any existing texts (rewording also constitutes copying, by the way, because I would still not have created anything original. I would merely create an edit of someone else's original work). And no, I can't sell it... but that's because every single name and term in that universe is trademarked.

Section 102(b) of the Copyright Act specifically states: "In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated or embodied in such work."

That means: Copyright protects the specifics of your story, but not the idea/plot of your story.

You want to continue someone else's story, or even write your own version of someone else's story? You might get called an asshole for doing so, but, as long as you actually write something original, it's fine as far as the law is concerned. And as long as you attribute the person/story that gave you the idea, nobody can accuse you of plagiarism either.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Yeah, let's not engage in a philosophy debate in a thread that's about (luckily) clearly defined rules, regularions, and laws regarding copyright and plagiarism.

The first time I saw a discussion about this topic, I realized that I'm not a lawyer... so, when I got my first message by someone asking if I had a problem with them writing an alternative version of my first book, I called one who specializes in copyright and trademark law. And, according to her, I CAN write a Star Wars script (though she used Harry Potter as an example), as long as I don't copy any existing texts (rewording also constitutes copying, by the way, because I would still not have created anything original. I would merely create an edit of someone else's original work). And no, I can't sell it... but that's because every single name and term in that universe is trademarked.

Section 102(b) of the Copyright Act specifically states: "In no case does copyright protection for an original work of authorship extend to any idea, procedure, process, system, method of operation, concept, principle or discovery, regardless of the form in which it is described, explained, illustrated or embodied in such work."

That means: You want to continue someone else's story, or even write your own version of someone else's story? You might get called an asshole for doing so, but, as long as you actually write something original, it's fine as far as the law is concerned. And as long as you attribute the person/story that gave you the idea, nobody can accuse you of plagiarism either.

It also means that if you write Han Solo and Princess Leia getting it on and post it here on Literotica and George Lucas finds out about it, he'll have his lawyers call Laurel and it will be down faster your boxers in a whorehouse because Lucas has trademark on all of that and he's been known to act on in many many times in the past. Philosophical, ethical, legal, REALITY. Case closed.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

It also means that if you write Han Solo and Princess Leia getting it on and post it here on Literotica and George Lucas finds out about it, he'll have his lawyers call Laurel and it will be down faster your boxers in a whorehouse because Lucas has trademark on all of that and he's been known to act on in many many times in the past. Philosophical, ethical, legal, REALITY. Case closed.

Again, let's not ignore reality here before you declare the "case closed". I have two big questions about your claims:

1. If you use the search function on the story side, and search for "Han Solo", "Harry Potter", or any other popular franchise name, you will find a shitload of stories going back twenty years infringing on those trademarks. How come these stories are still here? Could it be possible that nobody cares about a registered trademark if the fanfics aren't sold? Like I wrote in my initial post?

2. How many authors on Literotica do you reckon register trademarks for the characters in their stories in the first place? Especially if they can't even be bothered to finish those stories?

 

[Voboy]

@SolarClint, that story belongs to that writer.

If no more work appeared, there could be a million reasons why that happened... and you are privy to ZERO of those reasons. So it's not your place to use that writer's concepts, thoughts, characters, or ideas. There might be a damn good reason why the story wasn't continued, and since it's not your story? You should leave it alone.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

1. If you use the search function on the story side, and search for "Han Solo", "Harry Potter", or any other popular franchise name, you will find a shitload of stories going back twenty years infringing on those trademarks. How come these stories are still here? Could it be possible that nobody cares about a registered trademark if the fanfics aren't sold? Like I wrote in my initial post?

That doesn't mean that it's not copyright infringement just because the original author may not be aware of it yet.

2. How many authors on Literotica do you reckon register trademarks for the characters in their stories in the first place? Especially if they can't even be bothered to finish those stories?

Literotica clearly states that all authors retain the rights to their own work when posting here. One does not necessarily need to register a trademark to retain a copyright. Just because a story isn't famous does not mean that there is no copyright or that it is not trademarkable.

 

[ElectricBlue]

@SolarClint, that story belongs to that writer.

If no more work appeared, there could be a million reasons why that happened... and you are privy to ZERO of those reasons. So it's not your place to use that writer's concepts, thoughts, characters, or ideas. There might be a damn good reason why the story wasn't continued, and since it's not your story? You should leave it alone.

Absolutely agree this.

Every time this question gets asked, people bang on about copyright, which I think is actually irrelevant. This comes down to basic writer's ethics - don't use someone else's story ideas without their permission. I don't care if you've tried without success to get permission, if you don't have it, just don't. It's creative theft, if you ask me.

Write your own story, not someone else's.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

That doesn't mean that it's not copyright infringement just because the original author may not be aware of it yet.

Never claimed it wasn't.

Literotica clearly states that all authors retain the rights to their own work when posting here. One does not necessarily need to register a trademark to retain a copyright. Just because a story isn't famous does not mean that there is no copyright or that it is not trademarkable.

Yes. But, as I already showed, copyright does NOT protect the idea behind your story. It only protects you from people actually copy & pasting your written text and then claiming it as their own.

There are reasons why copyright doesn't extend as far as most AH denizens would like it to. If the first dude who built an electric car had been able to copyright or trademark the idea of using a bank of Li-ion batteries to power an electric motor placed in a regular car chassis, the EV market would be basically nonexistent today. And, whether we like it or not, the same applies to stories.

I mean, seriously, where would you draw the line of what ideas are protected? Am I allowed to write a story about a man and a woman falling in love after meeting at a college party, or is that already too similar to what someone else already wrote who had the idea first? That's exactly why ideas are not protected.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I will offer my opinion, because I personally feel very strongly regarding this issue.
You have no right ethically to touch another writers story.
It is their property. Their thoughts, their characters. Their time that went into the story as it sits.
Remember, this is my opinion only.
Just because they haven't continued it gives you absolutely no right to tamper with it.

Stories are creations of the mind of the writer. They are their intellectual property. I am not talking legally. I am speaking ethically. (My ethics, not everybody else's)
I think what you are suggesting is wrong.

Cagivagurl

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Never claimed it wasn't.

Yes. But, as I already showed, copyright does NOT protect the idea behind your story. It only protects you from people actually copy & pasting your written text and then claiming it as their own.

There are reasons why copyright doesn't extend as far as most AH denizens would like it to. If the first dude who built an electric car had been able to copyright or trademark the idea of using a bank of Li-ion batteries to power an electric motor placed in a regular car chassis, the EV market would be basically nonexistent today. And, whether we like it or not, the same applies to stories.

I mean, seriously, where would you draw the line of what ideas are protected? Am I allowed to write a story about a man and a woman falling in love after meeting at a college party, or is that already too similar to what someone else already wrote who had the idea first? That's exactly why ideas are not protected.

Get back to me when you stop contradicting yourself.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

Get back to me when you stop contradicting yourself.

I remember you using a similar line in another thread once, that was about the possibility of experiencing an orgasm during a non-consensual encounter. I'm as confused about your seeming inability to follow a conversation as I was back then.

 

[SimonDoom]

As long as you don't copy anything from the original author, and only publish what you wrote yourself... you're good.
If you then go and credit the author of the first part with a link to send some additional viewers their way, you're pretty much golden on here.

This isn't true as a matter of law. Copyright protection extends to more than just the specific words of a fiction story. The combination of character names, character personalities and motivations, settings, world building, etc. can also be encompassed within an author's copyright. If you were to write and publish a sequel to the final volume of the Harry Potter series without JK Rowling's permission, even if you didn't actually copy specific text you would still be in danger of being sued -- probably successfully -- for copyright infringement.

Fanfic is a funny netherworld. Most of it probably constitutes copyright infringement, but it's tolerated because famous authors realize as a practical matter that it does not hurt their profits, and it might in fact help their profits by sustaining interest in their works.

One cannot, however, make the leap that because fanfic of famous authors is permitted, it's OK to use the works of Literotica authors as fanfic material. You may not recognize a difference in principle, but many people (including me) think there is, and there is a difference as a practical matter because we don't get paid for this.

It all depends on what matters to you. People have very different opinions on this issue.

Do you care about whether you abide by the letter of copyright law? If so, then don't write unpermitted sequels to other authors' works, period.

Or do you feel like if you can get away with it, and nobody's going to sue, and it's no harm, no foul, then you don't care what the letter of the law is? Then you'll probably get away with it, unless Laurel doesn't approve or the author reappears and complains.

Do you care about the feelings of the authors? One can tell from the responses to these kinds of threads that many authors find the idea of unpermitted sequels offensive. I personally feel that because of the risk of that it would be discourteous to do so, and I won't do so for that reason alone.

 

[lovecraft68]

And.....

Drink!