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tealsphynx

It Goes Both Ways...
Joined
Feb 4, 2005
Posts
1,358
I remember when I first found BDSM. Lit was my haven of learning, there's so much to learn from the Library sticky and the people here. Growing up we are taught that it's wrong to like to hurt people, to like to be hurt, to like to control, be controlled ect. Basically everything BDSM/fetish, we are told it is deviant, and that deviant is bad. We are taught by the media the Lifestylers and fetishists are violent leather-clad wierd-os that walk one another around on leashes and carry whips. I worry sometimes that this image is what disuades people with Lifestyle/fetish inclinations from seeking out education, community or even from accepting their feelings. Somtimes I wonder if people like the BTK would have benefitted from the education that the BDSM community teaches, the SSC philosophy, proper method and all. Would, if society were more acceptable and condoning of our actions, people who go to the extremes and end up seriously hurting people be better people if they weren't imposed with the societal guilt for being into BDSM? I realize that some people just have an offly tweaked wire in their head and find killing people to be sexually stimulating, but would we be able to help them harness that energy and help them be sane if we could be more open. I doubt you would ever see a self-help seminar labled: Accepting the Deviant in You, atleast, not one that is publicly advertised. There might be within our own groups, but if someone feels guilty about searching out a group they might never hear about it, thus they would lose out on the benefits of such a seminar.
I've learned there's nothing wrong with what I feel, with my kinks, they are what make me me. I've learned that even though there are kinks that I don't find attractive, they may be a really vital part of sexuality/sensuality for someone else. I've also learned that not everybody has kinks/fetishes. For some people
Kinky people are Ok, Vanilla people are Ok
Dominance is everywhere in society. It is in our jobs, our organizations, our relationships no matter how vanilla. Sometimes people submit, not because they are submissive, not because they get off on it, but because it brings home the bacon or keeps our loved one happy, sometimes just plain out of respect. Human beings are pack animals and in every pack there is at least one Alpha. In our society we try to break up the power of one alpha by giving the power to a group of people and they become our CEO's, our Government, our Generals, ect. In relationships I think many of them that end up not working may be because it is a relationship of two dominant or two submissive people. I had a relationship that was nothing but a power struggle we both were trying to be on top. We both had dominant tendencies and neither of us would submit to the other. I've seen my sister, who is more submissive, got through dozens of relationships with other submissive men. Perhapse this trend is present in more then just small scale relationships. Maybe because people feel they can't be honest with themselves about being more Dom or sub, they can't be openly honest with their SO, and we all know how important honesty is to a relationship. I'm not saying everyone has to be in a D/s relationship. I've got VERY vanilla couple as friends. He is definitely a Dom personality. He is the head of his household and she better know her place. She is very submissive, almost to the point that I would say she feels as a slave in her mind. She needs to be his slave to be happy. The only thing he does is goes to work. She cooks, she cleans, she raises the baby, she packs for him when he goes on trips, she makes the bed the way he likes it, cooks only the food he likes. Their relationship works very well for them, but they would be horrified if I were to point out that they are in a Master/slave relationship because that type of relationship is wrong.

Just because Dominance and submission is part of our everyday lives as we are as a human pack doesn't mean everyone agrees with it. I was told once by someone that I was wrong for comparing humans to animals because "God made me better than animals, I am not anything like an animal" ect. We don't form into packs like other group animals do (ie wolves, lions, horses). Forget that in school it's all about who you hang out with that determines your social status. In work it's who you know that can determine your success. Granted hard work can get you to the top, knowing whos ass to kiss and kissing it will get you there faster.
S&M is a little more difficult, I think for people to accept because we may not see it in society. We may not see the kid sitting in his room running "The" knife accross his skin because the pain feels good. We may not see the guy jerking off with his dick under the faucet with the Hot turned all the way on and the cold all the way off because it feels better that way, doesn't mean they aren't there. We can't see the images of a human in the mind of the person who comes into the gym everyday to use the punching bag to imagine they are hitting someone and hearing their yelps of pain in his memory, doens't mean he's not. Society doesn't see the Sadist who learns how to cut another without doing damage so they can do it correctly on their Masochistic sub. Society sees the serial killer who stabs their victim and masturbates while the victim bleeds to death. Society sees the abusive husband who beats his wife because it makes him feel better. Could the O/our Society help them? Maybe not, but sometimes we'll never know, will we?
 
WOW! great essay TealSphynx

Makes me want to stand and say "Hi I'm Mark, and I'm a Deviant."
 
I think that if we look to history we will find that there has always been an outcast group. People are for the most part herd animals but someone is in control. The someone who is in control stays in control by distracting the negative impulses of the herd onto some other group that he/she views as expendible.

In the case of bdsm as far as the religious right and the political entities are concerned we are an expendible group. Maligning us can only serve their needs. It is a very hypocritical thing in my opinion. If you desire and need control then you should gain and hold that control based solely on your own strength and force of will. Gaining and keeping a semblance of control through backstabbing others is a very cowardly act. One only needs to look at modern politics and we will be taught that it is wrong to be gay or to not want a baby. We will be taught to hate an innocent group of people and to wrongly respect a spineless weasel.

Given that I do not think that bdsm will ever become fully accepted in mainstream society. People fear that which they do not know. People are also too lazy to try to understand or learn. It may seem an alien thing for them.

If they were to have to learn about, accept and understand bdsm then they might be put into a place where they have to face their own kinks. Heaven forbid that the perfect neighbor would have to examine what is going on in his own home! He might just find that he is just like us.

Basically, people as a whole suck.
 
Thanks for the replies Salvor and Betticus. I try not to think that people as a whole suck, but they sure do make it a hard thing to disbelieve! :eek:
 
Awesome post.

It's sadly true, and very maddening, that the majority always seems to rule. Which is why I am sooo grateful the U.S. isn't a pure democracy, rather a republic.

*shuddering to think what life would be if Arab Americans were the majority*
 
WOW! That bit of racism came out of nowhere. The majority of the Arab Americans and Arab immigrants I know are reasonable individuals, no better or worse than the Moral Majority, the Republicans, the Democrats, the "pick your label in the non bdsm sense of the word", the Israelis, the Palestinians or other political mob of choice.

Great essay Tealsphynx.
 
I came in here thinking this was going to be about grammar and capitalization, and instead I was treated to a lovely essay. Well said!
 
Thankyou all. I was worried I'd get alot of flames, I was in a bit of an emotional state when I wrote it.
 
I've belonged to deviant groups for some time. I'm new to BDSM - but I am a RP gaming nerd from the early 80's - not too many years after the first set of instruction books were published. That groups was also maligned - thought to be mentally unstable (we aren't - the social aspect of the system is very grounding and catches a lot of small problems before they become bigger ones), live too much in their fantasy worlds (sometimes this is true but not in the way it was meant by detractors - we do know the difference between fantasy and reality), were more prone to suicide (actually a study done on this found less of a risk of suicide - darn those social connections), and in general "weird."

Are there some people that go too far to the edge with it? Sure, but then if you take any group you will find that. Doesn't matter if it is plain vanilla folk, hunters, lawyers, politicians, bankers, CEOs, Media Moguls. Even among sexual predators there are a sub groups that a majority find as being too far out for them - pedophilia and those that kill their victims. Even if the kinkier aspects of BDSM became accepted/tolerated, these sub groups would still exist.

Examples: Since the 1960's in the USA- having consentual sex outside of marriage has become accepted. YET... we still have rapists, and pedophiles. Why? Surely these people could find people who would agree to have legal sexual relations with them somewhere - even if only in the Cadillac Ranch in Nevada. Yet we still have not just rape, but that women are still often afraid to report the rape to police for fear of the stigma of having sex, or of having other consentual sexual relationships called into question.

I don't disagree entirely with you TS - but even if BDSM were more mainstream, there would still be people such as "Son of Sam," Ted Bundy, Unabomber, Zodiac Killer, BTK. Maybe not as many of them choking the prison system, but there will still be those that go to the edge then go beyond it. Because there will still be people who will not value the aspects of Safety and Consensual. Without those two, can it ever be considered Sane?
 
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I'm a tabletop RP'er (yeah for half elves).
I'm a Domme.
I'm Pagan.

So, according to the "masses" I'm:
A devil worshiper. Maybe not the big one, definatly one of the little ones.
F'ed up, seriously and need drugs & therapy and maybe a padded room.
A Satatanist- the christian version of one, that worships the Anti-christ (because real Satanists aren't bad people. Just a different moral set- anything that says to protect and not harm the little children can't be all wrong.)


Its pack nature to exclude one animal, person or group, be it a pack of wolves, lions or humans. Someone has to be the scape goat, someone has to be less then ideal. Right or wrong, its how many people think because they were taught to think this way by society, thier parents, etc..
Discrimination, be it based on race, religeon or creed, is wrong. But it is a baser part of human nature. The trick is to learn to rise above it, which is a rare talent that I wish was more widespread.
But it is becoming better though- people aren't being stoned for being Pagan.
Aren't lossing custody of thier kids because of thier gender/transgender (least on this side of the US).

Yeah, the current social mindset toward anything different sucks, but it has been a LOT worse in the past. Its getting better, one little baby step at a time.
 
Vixandra said:
I'm a tabletop RP'er (yeah for half elves).
I'm a Domme.
I'm Pagan.

So, according to the "masses" I'm:
A devil worshiper. Maybe not the big one, definatly one of the little ones.
F'ed up, seriously and need drugs & therapy and maybe a padded room.
A Satatanist- the christian version of one, that worships the Anti-christ (because real Satanists aren't bad people. Just a different moral set- anything that says to protect and not harm the little children can't be all wrong.)


Its pack nature to exclude one animal, person or group, be it a pack of wolves, lions or humans. Someone has to be the scape goat, someone has to be less then ideal. Right or wrong, its how many people think because they were taught to think this way by society, thier parents, etc..
Discrimination, be it based on race, religeon or creed, is wrong. But it is a baser part of human nature. The trick is to learn to rise above it, which is a rare talent that I wish was more widespread.
But it is becoming better though- people aren't being stoned for being Pagan.
Aren't lossing custody of thier kids because of thier gender/transgender (least on this side of the US).

Yeah, the current social mindset toward anything different sucks, but it has been a LOT worse in the past. Its getting better, one little baby step at a time.

Hehehehe...I like you.
 
snowy ciara said:
WOW! That bit of racism came out of nowhere. The majority of the Arab Americans and Arab immigrants I know are reasonable individuals, no better or worse than the Moral Majority, the Republicans, the Democrats, the "pick your label in the non bdsm sense of the word", the Israelis, the Palestinians or other political mob of choice.

Great post snowy...I think if people were more open to difference instead of fearful and judgemental of it, they might finally learn we are not all that different from each other after all.

Catalina :rose:
 
Thanks Catalina...

After I went to bed last night, I had a grim chuckle that an essay about tolerance for our lifestyle and societal intolerance in general would inspire such an intolerant comment.

Gallows humour, anyone?
 
My sister in law is Arabic-American, and you'll never meet a prouder American. Just wanted to say that.

Beyond that, yes intolerance exists, and no it's not fair. But life is not fair, and people are assholes. You can spend your life railing against it, or accept it, and move on with your life.

I'm a Christian, which automatically means that I'm closeminded, evidently.

I'm a German Jew. I'm sure I don't need to go into that 'stigma' for you all.

I'm short. When I go into public people will walk right into me like I'm not there, and not even look down or apologize. Evidently being short means I don't count or that I don't have feelings.

I'm chronically ill, but not in a way people can see. That means that I'm a liar and a faker. Oh, and I'm lazy. Cause if people can't see your illness they don't believe you. (Don't get me started.:mad: )

Know what? I don't care what people think about me, and if they're going to treat me badly because of any of those things, then evidently they aren't the kind of person I want to be around, and I move on. Their are too many cool people in this world to waste my energy on the jerks.
 
Vixandra said:
I'm a tabletop RP'er (yeah for half elves).
I'm a Domme.
I'm Pagan.

So, according to the "masses" I'm:
A devil worshiper. Maybe not the big one, definatly one of the little ones.
F'ed up, seriously and need drugs & therapy and maybe a padded room.
A Satatanist- the christian version of one, that worships the Anti-christ (because real Satanists aren't bad people. Just a different moral set- anything that says to protect and not harm the little children can't be all wrong.)


Its pack nature to exclude one animal, person or group, be it a pack of wolves, lions or humans. Someone has to be the scape goat, someone has to be less then ideal. Right or wrong, its how many people think because they were taught to think this way by society, thier parents, etc..
Discrimination, be it based on race, religeon or creed, is wrong. But it is a baser part of human nature. The trick is to learn to rise above it, which is a rare talent that I wish was more widespread.
But it is becoming better though- people aren't being stoned for being Pagan.
Aren't lossing custody of thier kids because of thier gender/transgender (least on this side of the US).

Yeah, the current social mindset toward anything different sucks, but it has been a LOT worse in the past. Its getting better, one little baby step at a time.


Are we gonna get strung up together?

Also an RPer (online gaming version since 1995 because there are no local tabletop grps, but I miss it)

Also a pagan. Fiance/sub is a druid. I am a witch, but not Wiccan.
 
On normal days I'm not bothered by the discriminations against us for our sexual deviances. I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining that life isn't fair. I do get tired of generalizations being made because of race, sex, religion ect. and I do appologize if any of my words were taken as such. Some of you liked the writing, I just wrote as I felt it. I was having a hormonal day and wasn't really thinking as I typed. I am sorry if I have offended anyone by any accidental generalizations I may have made. I too have met people of "non-white" origin who are more patriotic than Americans I have met who have grown up here. Sometimes I think it is because Americans forget what it means to be American. I'm talking about the statements made in the Declaration of Independence. Strong words they are, and the Pledge of Allegience, again, strong emotional words that I've seen alot of people take for granted. Before I get on that soap box I'm going to step away from it because it's not the purpose of this thread or this board to get into heated opinionated discussion, I watch the GB get torn apart by those kind of discussions. I'm not wanting world peace, just perhaps a little general human tollerance...but people talk like it's too much to be tollerant of one another.
 
Rrrosyn said:
Are we gonna get strung up together?

Also an RPer (online gaming version since 1995 because there are no local tabletop grps, but I miss it)

Also a pagan. Fiance/sub is a druid. I am a witch, but not Wiccan.

I'm a Pagan of Wiccan bent with Druidic and Norse influences. Which means I'm eclectic as all get out but I'm happy with it.

Miss my group from Japan I played D&D with. *sighs* Really miss my half elf psychotic mage. She was "special" in a ooh fire kinda way.

Back to topic- yeah, people suck. A lot of them actually.
Its finding those that don't that's hard but worth the effort.
 
Vixandra said:
I'm a Pagan of Wiccan bent with Druidic and Norse influences. Which means I'm eclectic as all get out but I'm happy with it.

Miss my group from Japan I played D&D with. *sighs* Really miss my half elf psychotic mage. She was "special" in a ooh fire kinda way.

Back to topic- yeah, people suck. A lot of them actually.
Its finding those that don't that's hard but worth the effort.

Native American, Celtic, Kaballism infulenced eclectic here.

I agree people are too quick to judge anyone not of themselves. Subbie isn't accepted by his own family. And I haven't told the portions of mine that would make an issue out of it.

Judging a stranger based on ignorance is one thing. Knowing someone for 20 years and singing their praises as a good person, then changing your mind because they happen to be a different than you is sick!

We have discovered that anyone who can know our religious beliefs and accept us, has also accepted the BDSM relationship we have. They make shake their heads in confussion, but they don't judge on it. Of course this list is very short.
 
Vixandra said:
I'm a Pagan of Wiccan bent with Druidic and Norse influences. Which means I'm eclectic as all get out but I'm happy with it.

Miss my group from Japan I played D&D with. *sighs* Really miss my half elf psychotic mage. She was "special" in a ooh fire kinda way.

Back to topic- yeah, people suck. A lot of them actually.
Its finding those that don't that's hard but worth the effort.

At risk of a beating for hijacking....

I'm a LONG time gamer. No online at the moment but then I've had a group to game with for several years. Right now most of them are gone on to other bases but I have a few new guys. Although I am now having to run the game. <sigh> I need find someone who can run one so I can play sometimes. Luckily I enjoy GMing too.
 
sphynx's dragon said:
At risk of a beating for hijacking....

I'm a LONG time gamer. No online at the moment but then I've had a group to game with for several years. Right now most of them are gone on to other bases but I have a few new guys. Although I am now having to run the game. <sigh> I need find someone who can run one so I can play sometimes. Luckily I enjoy GMing too.
*participating in the highjack, don't beat the dragon more than he deserves, TS ;) *
I never tried online gaming, but have been in different groups (first in the US, then here). I don't like running the game, but I really enjoy playing along. Luckily S is quite a good Dungeon Master, so I don't have to :)
Right now I'm playing a fighter/psionisist (dual-classed) who positively kicks ass! I need to get my group together again very soon...
[/highjack]

Tealsphynx, I liked your essay (at least the first bit over a half, as I don't have the concentration right now to read all of it). I'll have to come back tonight or tomorrow to reread it.
 
well unfortunatly, people Are Dumb stupid paniky animals that listen to just what one person says with out any cognitive thought.

a Person is smart and understanding. so in truth, People do suck, a person is good, but people suck.


and to the hijaked verson.

what is so wrong with online rpgs? or rpgs as a whole? i dont recall any informative ruling in the us senete to try and ban dungons and dragons...

and for the pagen things. i think all that religion is a bunch of hooie. (not being mean to any of you) pagenisum is of celtic lore (not nessarly nordic lore) and the last arcanimunic runic rituals of hibernia died a few melenia ago when the brits killed em all off in hibernia (ireland) and really, i dont entirely trust any one that says they praise the gods of lillith and lillium, not that many know those 2 either.

even then, lillith and lillium are built off of christian lore. its hard to think of any elder gods of celtic because there was no offical writing of them. nordic lore is easyer to follow, but again i doubt any one really follows it, again the ways they worshiped are long gone, no one knows how they did what they did.

to me, pagenisum is just an attempt to build a religion off the 'wrongs side' off of every other religion that has strong words as to the 'right side' that doesnt truely work all that well.

but... would be willing to here any ones aurgument other wise of how their druidic worship is diffrent...

of course then again, im the worst kinda gamer.

apprently, i solve my problems through violence and im going straight to hell. just ask society.

i play first person shooting video games, and though i accept there is a god and christianity is the 'true' religion (although i am more scientific than religious) i really dont think i like this god charicter. i have my reasons and most are built on the fact that ive watched a few people die slowly.
 
Pyro Paul said:
>snip<
what is so wrong with online rpgs? or rpgs as a whole? i dont recall any informative ruling in the us senete to try and ban dungons and dragons...
>snip<
We all like role playing games. I haven't tried online, but it shouldn't be so much worse than tabletop.
But I do get some strange looks when I tell people I like to do so. If they have never tried, they don't understand. And yes, some do (or did, before computer games got so big) think that we gamers have to be weird, maybe insane, not healthy at all.
 
Oooh hijacks! Thankyou all for listening and discussing/sharing your opinion.
 
graceanne said:
Know what? I don't care what people think about me, and if they're going to treat me badly because of any of those things, then evidently they aren't the kind of person I want to be around, and I move on. Their are too many cool people in this world to waste my energy on the jerks.

Amen, sister! ;)
 
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