Humble questions...

[lne_iii]

Been lurking here a while, I figure now is about the best time to post, because I have a question. A few even, maybe. Please feel free to post if you have something useful to contribute! Thanks for your help.

Here's the thing...I love my girl very much, and through certain circumstances that I don't wish to get into right now...I very much have the "upper hand" in the relationship right now. I've been using this to my advantage, because generally I'd be too shy to show her my darker side.

Just like all avenues of sex, to me...the emotions must be there before the physical stuff can come into play. Even more so than normal 'nilla stuff...I can't really see delving into the realm of BDSM with someone I do not care about.

Like I said though, right now I'm kind of in a position where I'm able to get her to try new things...and a few weeks ago one of those new things that I told her was going to happen if she really wanted me back...was going to be "lifechanging" for her. Something she hadn't experienced before, or at least to the degree at which I'm presenting it to her. Basically, I told her that if she wanted me to stay with her after what she had done...(she was cheating...kind of...more on that later, maybe) that we were going to have a kind of "I say jump, you ask 'how high'?" thing going on.

I've been using this to bring BDSM elements into our relationship without just springing it from nowhere, which to me always seems a bit akward.

Thing is though, she seems to be enjoying all of this. She seems to enjoy being under my control. Some of the new stuff we are trying is really working for us.

Some of my questions though, may seem odd, or too common, or cliche', or whatever...but...I would like some answers from what seems to be a very knowledgeable community

Well, without further adieu...my questions!

Considering that I told her that the "jump/how high?" thing was going to be "for a while" ...I wonder if, since she seems to like it...if it would be wrong of me to ask her to make it a permanant change?

If I remain my "normal" self in all other aspects of our relationship, and only bring out the BDSM elements in the bedroom...does that put us in the "playing" or "lifestyle" house?

Since she agreed to my terms about how our relationship was going to be from here on out, I've pretty much been treating her as if she were my slave...at least in the bedroom, like I've said. However, doing it, and actually saying it to me are completely seperate things. I'm kind of wondering how I should go about talking to her about that...because I think it would be good for us. She seems to enjoy the way I'm treating her alot better now...and I think it would further bond us together if we had an m/s kind of thing happening. I'm wondering if I should go on and have the discussion with her in the near future? I definitely want this, and I think she does too. I want to collar her as well, but I think even though she has little knowledge of the realm (and as such I would probably have to explain all of this to her throughly) ...that she wants it even though she doesn't know it yet. Should I proceed?

I may think of more later, but please, be generous with your knowledge, wisdom, experience, and advice kind Lords and Ladies.

LNE

 

[Chicklet]

Considering what you've told us, about how she pretty much cheated on you and is at the moment at least somewhat submitting to you to keep you with her, I think that you should be careful not to make it seem as though if she *does* love you, she MUST submit to you and be your slave. If she's really loving it, as you say, and which I believe because I'd love it, then that's fantastic, but I'd hate for you to start any kind of relationship with a blackmail feel.

What about giving her some reading to do? What about having her scan these forums, or find some books on consensual sadomasochism for her to read, and then afterwards, if she doesn't bring it up to you, ask her how she really feels about it.

That's what I'd say, I just would hate for her to feel on any level that she was being truely forced into this.

 

[Marquis]

Ain't happenin.

 

[RJMasters]

Sorta of awkward, but hey I have seen relationships start from worse and make it.

Perhaps she cheated on you because you weren't "taking her in hand". Maybe she did it in order to push you to see if you would put the relationship into the "I say jump/you say how high" mode. Who knows, women are just as bad as men sometimes, and do shit you'll never understand.

As far as being up front about your wanting BDSM within the relationship, well hey, you already laid down terms. Your way or the highway, sooooo might as well be upfront and honest about it and quit beating around the bush. At least your giving her the straight up choice to consent or hit the road.

I am assuming at some point you will want the relationship between you two to grow...if thats the case its never gonna happen only onesided.

 

[Jay Davis]

The core of a healthy, positive, mutually-beneficial D/s relationship is the free consent of both parties. We don't have enough information to guess whether she is in a position to give free consent, or is submitting to your will out of a sense of emotional blackmail. You're in a better position to guess that than we are, but only she can really, truly know.

It's vitally important not just for the health of the relationship, but for your personal freedom, that she be a fully willing participant. If you begin to delve deeply into BDSM activities, and she later on decides she was coerced and abused, she will probably have evidence--bruises, welts, etc.--that will be sufficient to get you jammed up with the law pretty badly, and quite possibly serving time with large gentlemen who will have no interest whatsoever in submitting to you.

I strongly recommend that you both read up on both the how-to's and the why's underlying BDSM before you go much further. When you get into the realm where you're talking about things like collars, you're getting pretty serious. It's dangerous for both of you, for different reasons, for you to manipulate her into a position where you are working with far greater awareness of the lifestyle you're both embarking on than she possesses. You should both do your homework on things like limits, safewords, contracts, consent, etc. before you start thinking about collars.

I am generally concerned from your original post that she may be feeling pressured or manipulated into the current situation, let alone anything further. Even if she's enjoying the master/slave games in the bedroom, you don't want her feeling coerced later on. She needs to know that you will respect and care for her even if she doesn't want to go further down the BDSM road. If you've determined that BDSM is something you need to feel fulfilled, to the point that you're unwilling to be in a relationship without it, that needs to be expressed to her in a way that makes it an invitation to explore BDSM with you, not a form of blackmail to preserve the relationship.

I'm not saying she is feeling pressured, just that the circumstances under which this arrangement evolved are suspect. Most BDSM people go out of their way to keep their negative emotions--anger, bitterness, revenge--separate from their BDSM play. You need to both get past the cheating before you go further with the BDSM, because if it has its roots in anger and punishment for something that serious, it's toxic from the start, and will only end badly. You absolutely must divorce any further Master/slave play from the cheating incident, or you'll just be nurturing that hurt every time you step into the bedroom, quite probably forever.

 

[lne_iii]

Chicklet, I've thought of that...and I'm definitely not going to push anything on her that she doesn't want. No "blackmailing" as you said. I never intended this to be that way at all. That's not how I operate. I made very sure that she was OK with my terms before I took her back. She was practically begging her to take me back, even after I told her how it was going to be. So, I'm definitely not forcing or pressuring her into anything. Nor would I want to.

Marquis, looking for a little more input than that heh.

RJMasters, I agree totally. I think that might have been part of it...that she really wanted me to kind of take charge a bit more. I'm a very shy, reserved, almost timid kind of guy usually. Like I said it takes alot of emotion for someone for them to get to see the real me. I think she's really suprised and delighted by my finally coming out of my shell and showing her exactly what I'm thinking all the time, in all manner of speaking

 

[Marquis]

Marquis, looking for a little more input than that heh.

I would say authority based on wrongdoing on her part is a pretty shitty way to set up a D/s relationship. You wouldn't be the first or last with a setup like that, so if it works for you, go for it.

In fact, maybe in some way we're all caught in that trap. It's hotter when our bitches really do piss us off and we punish them like the canniving cunts they are, maintain strict curfews and actually give a fuck about what they're doing with their free time for once.

All of a sudden EVERYTHING you used to ignore becomes REAL fucking important. The bitch finally gets what she wants. Forget birthdays? You'll be peeking around her ass when she shits to see if it's the right color.

But what happens when you feel safe again? Then she's gone for 5 hours when she just ran out for some paper towels. You'll be too busy with work and other recreational activities to know what the fuck is going on until you find a used condom under your pillow like a present from the emotional enslavement fairy.

And at that point, whether you choke her to death like she wants, or choke it down yourself to spite her, you lose.

Now I know I make all that seem mighty negative, but your alternative sucks just as bad. You could stick with the kind of safe girls that will let you ignore them, and you will; or you can go for the kind of girls who will just leave you when they aren't getting what they want, and they will.

But hey, you asked me to expand so I did. Keep in mind that you're talking to a 23 year old Manic-Depressive who keeps his heart shielded by his pecker at all times. YMMV

 

[CutieMouse]

It may just be the really long weekend speaking here (just got home after 4 flights in 2 days and dragging kids all over Chimney Rock , NC), but as a leans-towards-submission-naturally sort of girl I gotta say that the first thought that came to mind was blackmail isn't a very emotionally healthy way to play this game.

She was cheating "kind of" so you're going to hide behind that reasoning to get BDSM in the bedroom instead of really diving deep and deciding you either A) trust her and are committed enough to be up front about your interests or B) can't tolerate your Lover even "kind of" cheating so it's over? Huh?

I'm having a hard time not seeing this as a mind game of the unhealthy sort, plain and simple; grow up and communicate instead of builidng a BDSM "relationship" off excuses and mind games.

With that this exhausted grumpy girl is tucking herself in bed./

 

[alice_underneath]

Hello, LNE.

Please allow me to introduce myself, so that you may understand my perspective. I am a married woman with a vanilla husband. I have never cheated, and never engaged in any d/s activities - except in my fantasies!

I understand all to well your reluctance to just spring BDSM on her "from nowhere", but I strongly suggest that you separate your BDSM activities from your response to her cheating as soon as possible.

Guilt is a very destructive emotion for any relationship. At the moment, she may be relieved that you did not dump her in response to her cheating. But if you sustain the punishment/blackmail indefinitely, she will eventually come to resent it.

To me, what you are doing at the moment sounds like coercion, rather than a free exchange of power. I am also concerned that your "jump/how high thing" might not have given her an opportunity to set limits on your activities.

The fact that she seems to enjoy your new activities is a very good sign! However, it is much, much better to ask her how she feels about it, rather than to assume that what you want to hear might be true.

For these reasons, my answer to your question is: Yes! You should definitely talk to her about BDSM as soon as possible. But first, I think you should have a conversation about her cheating. Resolve those issues, and make it clear that you want to separate the subject of her infidelity from any future BDSM activities.

You mentioned that you are shy about revealing your "darker side" to her, so let me offer you some encouragement.

My number one fantasy involves my husband coming to me and saying, "Alice, I would like to explore the world of dominance and submission....."

*sigh*

Good luck.

 

[incubus'_sub]

All of the others are being very nice & encouraging & welcoming but Marquis is right. Your mindset is wrong, the situation is wrong, nor do you love her. Think again.

 

[lne_iii]

Well thanks for the replies everyone...

But the question was never, "Do I love her?" ...because that's no one's decision but mine to make.

However, utilizing all the input here, and after some careful thought about everything you all said (most all of which was helpful and made lots of sense...!) we had a long discussion last night about how she felt about our current situation and all.

Before I even brought up the discussion...I thought about what you all said about *forcing* her into stuff, and *blackmail* and nasty stuff like that...and I released her from the whole "jump/how high?" stuff. I just straight up told her that I was dissolving that statement then and there...which made her audibly sigh with relief. Then she thanked me and said that she felt much better with the burden of "you-do-what-i-say-or-I'm-gone" kind of thoughts out of her head. Which, isn't exactly how I meant for that to play out...and in any case I didn't really ever invoke the power but for one time...but it was apparently scaring her pretty badly that I might do/make her do something she was really uncomfortable with. She said the scariest part for her was that I would make her do something absolutely horrid...which I don't think I would/could...but at any rate she's free of that worry now, thanks largely to you all.

I thank you all for that too, because I had no idea of the mental effect this was having on her...sometimes I can kind of guess at what she's thinking...and I forget sometimes that she doesn't share the ability. She was really in fear of what I might do.

We talked a long while about what it was that she feared I would do to her as well, and it was all stuff that I would never really do anyway...but of course she doesn't know that. She said she felt more comfortable now knowing that she could say "no" and it not be the end right then and there...which I didn't exactly mean to imply, but I might have. There's alot of ground that I didn't cover apparently...blanket statements are bad.

She says I'm too "unpredictable" ...which is a blessing and a curse in her eyes. It means I randomly make her really happy...but her worst fear is also the unknown.

But I asked her about, for the immediate future...now that the fear of "losing me" over refusing something was out of the question...how she felt about me still having the reins as far as our playing goes. She was worried about me going too far with something, or pushing her into something really awful. I then explained things like safewords and such to her...and even different degrees of safewords. But other than that she said that she loved the idea of me "taking control of her" when we play.

We're supposed to have some time set aside Friday afternoon for play and such...she's alot more excited about that now. Me and a few friends are going toy shopping this afternoon...my kitten can't go, she's very busy today...but even though the "unknown" is scary for her...we had a talk about her worries as far as this went too...she said really all she was scared of was me getting some sort of gag. I don't really find those all that attractive, and for our purposes we really don't have to worry about noise and such...especially from her yelping or anything...I don't plan to do anything all that painful really...so she's excited about my little shopping trip now too.

Aside from common household items that can be used in play (sleepmasks, hairbrushs for light paddling...etc) we really don't have anything just yet. I'm by no means a rigger at this point, so I'm keeping my eyes peeled for some sort of cuffs or something (which she happily agreed with )....any other suggestions? I will check this before we head out.

Anywho, thank you all again very much for your input. I was unsure how to approach her as far as all of this went, but we're well on our way now...and thanks to you guys I had a bit of insight going into this thing...I felt really odd coming to a forum (or in this case finally posting in one) about this...but you guys (and gals!) seem to be, like I said, a very knowledgeable and wise group of people, and (my kitten and) I feel alot better about our situation now.

Thanks a thousand more times if once!
LNE

 

[alice_underneath]

Hi, LNE.

I am happy for both of you!

The fact that she was terrified that you might do "something absolutely horrid" does not surprise me at all. Anyone who has ever googled BDSM images has seen stuff happening to women that looks pretty darn painful!

I feel a little ridiculous offering you suggestions (since I have never had any BDSM experiences of my own). On the other hand, though, my perspective might be helpful since I can imagine being in your girlfriend's shoes.

My first suggestion is that you write down a list of things you might be interested in doing, and ask her to think carefully and respond to each with "NO WAY!" or "ummm... maybe" or "sure, why not?" or "PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, RIGHT NOW!"

I have seen standardized lists, but frankly, for the inexperienced they can seem a bit overwhelming.

If you let her set limits, in addition to giving her a safeword, my guess is that she will stop referring to you as "too unpredictable", and start celebrating the fact that she never knows what you'll do next!

My suggestion on shopping for toys is that you think very carefully before buying anything that is supposed to inflict pain (even "pleasure/pain"). They might look hot, and holding them in your hand might make you feel like Sir Nathan (have you read his stuff?), but there are at least 2 reasons for caution:

#1. You are new to this, right? Floggers and other things might take instruction or practice in order to learn how to use them. In the beginning, it might be better to stick with stuff you definitely know how to use. Feathers.... cuffs.... vibrators..... your hand slapping her ass.... (mmm.... oh.... please excuse me - I need to drop off for a minute!)

Ok, I'm back. Here's reason #2. For the uninitiated, a very common response to paddles, clamps, etc., might be: Why does he want to hurt me? I don't understand why he gets excited from causing me pain.

I'm not saying that you should never do these things. I am only suggesting that you go slowly - and think carefully about when, how, and why you introduce the pleasure/pain stuff.

My last piece of advice: Don't ever assume you can "guess" what she is thinking. Ask her. Talk about it. No matter what her response, I guarantee that you will be better off if you do.

Alice

 

[lne_iii]

Well thank you for your input Alice.

As a matter of fact, I didn't really want to get anything that would make her ask "why does he want to hurt me?" ...we've discussed things like spankings and such, which she is very excited about. Of course, nothing more than my hand or perhaps a hairbrush of hers is needed for that.

I did end up getting a toy tonight though...

I got one of the little vibrator things with different settings and such, and not one but two little "bullet" things, though they are cylindrical in shape. I explained it to her over the phone and she sounds very excited about it...

One thing I was disappointed to find was that no one sells *real* handcuffs to "civilians" ...gotta be a cop or ex-cop or something. Thankfully my dad *is* an ex-cop, and is likely to have some and or can get some for me. It's just a matter of how I approach him about that hehe.

Anywho, wish me luck everyone, Friday is looking more and more like a big night!

LNE

 

[FurryFury]

<snip>One thing I was disappointed to find was that no one sells *real* handcuffs to "civilians" ...gotta be a cop or ex-cop or something. Thankfully my dad *is* an ex-cop, and is likely to have some and or can get some for me. It's just a matter of how I approach him about that hehe.

Anywho, wish me luck everyone, Friday is looking more and more like a big night!

LNE

Good luck to both of you.

BTW, a belt used correctly can easily immobilize. Just make sure she can still breathe. It's not that easy when pushed face down on the feather comforter, I find. Also, I understand hand cuffs can leave marks which is why they make some lined with fur and such so be careful with that. I hear from a very good friend that bondage tape which only sticks to itself is very useful too. Looking at web sites I see it ranges from under ten dollars to, too damned expensive.

Fury

 

[CutieMouse]

Actually "real" handcuffs are damned uncomfortable (in the not fun way), and can easily injure the wrists- get a bit too tight, rub the wrists raw, sweet subbie ends up with cold metal pinching her wrists distracting her. Plus you want to make sure you have double keys "just in case". What happens if her hands start to feel tingly and numb and you're having difficulty unlocking the cuffs? And you need to worry about if you are cuffing her hands together in X position and will that put strain on her joints or are you cuffing her to something and how will that affect things?

silk ties
stockings
scarves
ribbon (1/2 inch - 1 inch wide satin ribbon is a lovely thing- you can make all sorts of pretty bows and tie someone up in ways handcuffs never could)
cotton rope
nylon rope (the soft kind)
mental bondage ("Do NOT move from this position")

Creativity is a good thing.

 

[lne_iii]

Well thank you much for the ideas ladies!

Aha, I'm so excited...we had the talk last night!!!

I explained things like safewords and all such as that...and she could tell that there was something I was holding back...and I had promised her a talk sometime before Friday that was "about us, and not bad at all" ....and so we had the discussion about being Master/Slave to one another.

She accepted!!

Of course I explained to her that it would change our relationship slightly in how we treated one another....but not the way that I feel about her. I still do not look upon her as a piece of meat or anything like that.

I mentioned afterward that this was a furthering of our relationship together...that it should make her feel more safe and secure with where we stand and all. She very much agreed.

She thanked me so many times for freeing her from our earlier situation, and giving her free will back to her, so that she could willingly submit to me and hand it back.



Thank you all for your input and advice!
I hope to stay here and draw further from your wisdom and kindness!

LNE

 

[FurryFury]

That's great! Congrats to you both!

Fury

 

[Sybarist]

I may be speaking more from resentment than anything else here..

But I find it very unlikely that you have gone from the point where she had no inkling of what you wanted to do in your relationship to the point where she agreed to be the Slave to your Master in such a short period of time.

I mean, in just 3 days you have gone from the point of not even knowing exactly what it was that you wanted to do with her to the point that you have placed yourself in complete control of her with her consent? To me it doesn't seem like enough time for her to have the information to make that kind of decision with total honesty. I'd be willing to bet that she really has no idea of what she has gotten herself into, is still feeling she needs to make amends for her *sort of* cheating, and once she finds out then you'll be having some big time independence issues...

 

[alice_underneath]

Sybarist -

I understand your point, but I am not sure it's a fair one.

My guess is that if you asked 100 different people to define a Master/Slave relationship, you would get 100 different answers.

In my opinion, what is important is that LNE has carefully explained what he is seeking, and that she fully understands.

LNE -

Congratulations! I hope Friday is wonderful.

Would you consider coming back to tell us how it went?

Have fun,
Alice

 

[lne_iii]

Sybarist -

I understand your point, but I am not sure it's a fair one.

My guess is that if you asked 100 different people to define a Master/Slave relationship, you would get 100 different answers.

In my opinion, what is important is that LNE has carefully explained what he is seeking, and that she fully understands.

LNE -

Congratulations! I hope Friday is wonderful.

Would you consider coming back to tell us how it went?

Have fun,
Alice

Sybarist - I also see your point...but I've been doing alot of thinking over the past few days....and it seems to me that now that she knows my intentions and plans for the future (something she was uncomfortable with because I'm so "random" ...which I definitely am!) ...and now that she belongs to me, I think she feels absolutely secure in our relationship. I feel that this will bring an end to her indescretions, and let us move on to the healing stage. Again though, thank you for your input, I respect the opinions of others which is why I came here

Alice - Of course I will!! I'll be taking lots of pictures, but it will remain to be seen as to whether or not I share those
Ahh, I forgot...Is it OK to call you Alice?

At any rate...I also went shopping with a few friends, and came home with a nice little vibrating toy! Two silver bullets that work in tandem, with 5 different settings as to how hard and how fast it pulses. I showed it to her today, she was very excited by that as well hehe. Friday is going to be very interesting. She is begging me not to wait that long...(begging is a big thing for me, I love to make her beg ) ...but I'm holding firm to the schedule!!

LNE

 

[CutieMouse]

I believe the concerns Sybarist expressed had more to do with the um... seemingly sudden JUMP into a Master/Slave relationship. Yes BDSM can be defined a zillion different ways; however, you are using terminology [Master/Slave] that symbolizes an enormous amount of responsibility. It is also terminology that is taken quite seriously by those in the Community; and while you may define that as you see fit, to chose such a dynamic so quickly (and, no offense intended, but without a lot of knowledge) somewhat belittles the hard work of those who have busted their asses to become worthy of the titles Master and Slave.

Being a Top doesn't flip a switch and make you a Master; being a bottom doesn't flip a switch and make her a Slave. Toys an such are wonderful things; Safe, Sane & Consentual trumps them every damned time.

 

[incubus'_sub]

Why are so many of you congratulating this opportunistic & dangerous jerk?

By his own admission he's very "random" & unpredictable. He didn't really mean to give her the impression that she would have to do whatever he says or it was over, yet here he was crowing & gloating about that very situation. He is still saying the same thing, just qualified with a "may not" necessarily be the end if she says no to anything. So what, if anything, has really changed?

If this girl had posted here most people would be telling her to run, as far & as fast as she can because he doesn't sound very safe & trustworthy so far, even if you take his damaged ego & revenge motive out of the mix.

He's not a dom, not even close. Just a weak, revenge driven bully. Let's hope she recognises him for what he is before he damages her too much.

 

[alice_underneath]

It is also terminology that is taken quite seriously by those in the Community; and while you may define that as you see fit, to chose such a dynamic so quickly (and, no offense intended, but without a lot of knowledge) somewhat belittles the hard work of those who have busted their asses to become worthy of the titles Master and Slave.

The fact that a 7th grade class in Kansas elects a class President in no way shows disrespect for the President of the United States.

If you see LNE on the threads next week, bragging about his experience and skill as a Master, then you have a fair point.

But everyone has to start somewhere, don't they? He and his girlfriend have expressed an interest in the dynamics of a Master/slave relationship. Perhaps they will explore this relationship and one or both of them will bail within a week. Perhaps they will forge a bond that will last a lifetime. Who knows?

Check the title of this thread, and his first post. LNE has come here with "HUMBLE questions", seeking "knowledge, wisdom, experience, and advice".

That hardly sounds like "belittling" to me.

 

[alice_underneath]

I'll be taking lots of pictures, but it will remain to be seen as to whether or not I share those

Will it help if we beg?

 

[alice_underneath]

Why are so many of you congratulating this opportunistic & dangerous jerk?

One possibility is that you are correct about this guy. If so, is there anything that you or anyone else here can say that will stop him from doing whatever the hell he wants to his girlfriend? The obvious answer is - no.

Another possibility is that he is just a guy trying to work things out with his girlfriend, and expressing an interest in d/s activities at the same time.

If the latter is true, then I fail to see how arrogance or nasty comments would help the girl that you profess to be so worried about.

Just one woman's opinion.