How to write referencing specific locations in the local vernacular?

[MrPixel]

I'm reminded of a joke:

A tourist driving through Florida stops for lunch in Kissimmee, and like many non-residents, is puzzling over how to pronounce the city name. Is it "kiss EE me"? "KISS im me? Or what?

So in frustration trying to resolve his dilemma, he steps back up to the counter and asks, "How do you pronounce the name of this place?"

The clerk answers, slowly and deliberately, "Bur. Ger. King"

Buh dump dump tshhhhh.

My specific dilemma is about Colorado Springs, which is featured prominently in the story I'm currently working on, with references to real locations that I've already researched. My problem is that in dialog that would otherwise be short and clipped, "Colorado Springs" seems clunky and redundant. Do locals shorten it to "'Springs" or "C-Springs" or something like that?

I know at least from my friends and family living in the San Francisco area SF is called "The City", and you instantly out yourself as a tourist by using "Frisco".

 

[NC_Coastal]

Write about what you know. Best advice ever for a writer.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't live in Colorado, but I looked it up on the Internet and after a 90-second search saw that locals call it "The Springs." So if your speaking character is from there, they might refer to it that way. I wouldn't over do it if I were you, though, because no non-local is going to know that. I didn't know that until 60 seconds ago.

If the character who is providing the narration or dialogue is NOT from there, then have them say "Colorado Springs," or just find ways of avoiding naming the city.

I set my stories most of the time in anonymous urban settings where the name of the city is never mentioned, and I don't think it's a problem. There are many ways to avoid mentioning it one way or another.

You are correct about San Francisco. Say "Frisco" to a resident and you are putting a stamp on your head that says, "I'm not from here." Throughout the greater urban area it is referred to (somewhat pompously, I think, since there are so many other cities in the area) as "The City." If you say"The City" everyone will understand that you were not referring to Oakland or San Jose.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

If you're in southern England, the City is similar to Wall Street, code for the main financial district of the country, in this case refering to the City of London, which confusingly is not one of the 32 boroughs that make up the metropolis known as London (but the City of Westminster is just a borough of London...)

Further north, if not talking about finance, it could be taken as a reference to Manchester City football team.

 

[NotWise]

I'm reminded of a joke:



Buh dump dump tshhhhh.

My specific dilemma is about Colorado Springs, which is featured prominently in the story I'm currently working on, with references to real locations that I've already researched. My problem is that in dialog that would otherwise be short and clipped, "Colorado Springs" seems clunky and redundant. Do locals shorten it to "'Springs" or "C-Springs" or something like that?

I know at least from my friends and family living in the San Francisco area SF is called "The City", and you instantly out yourself as a tourist by using "Frisco".

Like Simon, I googled it and found local sources calling it Springs and COS (the airport code). Where "the" was included before "Springs" is was not capitalized. I don't live there, but I've heard it called "Springs."

 

[MrPixel]

... I looked it up on the Internet and after a 90-second search saw that locals call it "The Springs." So if your speaking character is from there, they might refer to it that way. I wouldn't over do it if I were you, though, because no non-local is going to know that. I didn't know that until 60 seconds ago. ...

No, no danger of overdoing it. Three times in 100 pages, and the speakers are a local or somebody from the greater area.

Thanks, NW. I was wondering whether "the" was capitalized. It is in my SF reference, The City being sort of pompous as Simon indicated. I was debating about using an apostrophe in the style of omitted text, as in 'Springs, but what you guys found doesn't support that. Now you have me curious why I couldn't find the same references, 'cause I looked.

Write about what you know. Best advice ever for a writer.

The specific geographic and geopolitical references are important to the story line.

 

[Rustyoznail]

It's hard to define in a story, but one other factor to determine if someöne is a local is how the location is pronounced. Eg Newcastle could be "New-car-sil" or "New-cas-il" - where the "a" is pronounced the same as in cat.

 

[BarracudaSwordfish]

It's hard to define in a story, but one other factor to determine if someöne is a local is how the location is pronounced. Eg Newcastle could be "New-car-sil" or "New-cas-il" - where the "a" is pronounced the same as in cat.

'Noo-carsle' to a Cockney, 'Nyuh-cassel' or 'The Toon' to a Geordie!

 

[gunhilltrain]

It may also depend on what era you are writing about. As late as the 1970s New Yorkers still referred to the subway lines as the IRT, IND, and BMT, although the actual entities (two private companies and a municipal system) had been "unified" under city control by LaGuardia in 1940. Nowadays no one under about sixty would know what you're talking about

New Yorkers still refer to certain roadways by initials and those (BQE, LIE, FDR, and so forth) are probably used more than the full names. Gentrification has resulted in a lot of acronyms invented by realtors that have become standard usage starting around 1980. Soho was first, followed by Tribeca, Dumbo, Nolita, and more. The attempt to rebrand Hell's Kitchen as Clinton failed and the old name (which goes back to the 19th Century) survived. I suspect that certain yuppie types are prone to reverse snobbism and are proud to have such a "tough" sounding name for their neighborhood.

 

[SimonDoom]

One of the peculiar things to know about Southern California, if you write a story based there, is that the residents refer to freeways with the article "the" before the numbers. "The 5." "The 405." The 10."

So Cal residents say "I took the 405 to the 10 to get downtown."

North of Los Angeles, Californians do not do this. Nobody in Northern California does this.

 

[Voboy]

It's THE Springs.

There is a northern area of town, up near the AFA, and then the interstate takes a big curve downtown by the Rodeo HoF and you move into a very different area of the city. Then, closer to the foothills west of town down by Ft Carson, the vibe is very different still. It really feels like modern Suburban America to the north, then a fair-sized bustling city further south, then an old rural area out west by Manitou Springs.

The military influence is strong, but the Evangelical Christian influence is even stronger. And AFA cadets are all insufferable assholes, as a rule.

 

[NotWise]

It's THE Springs.

There is a northern area of town, up near the AFA, and then the interstate takes a big curve downtown by the Rodeo HoF and you move into a very different area of the city. Then, closer to the foothills west of town down by Ft Carson, the vibe is very different still. It really feels like modern Suburban America to the north, then a fair-sized bustling city further south, then an old rural area out west by Manitou Springs.

The military influence is strong, but the Evangelical Christian influence is even stronger. And AFA cadets are all insufferable assholes, as a rule.

And the east side is a big suburban cancer spreading on the prairie.

 

[PennameWombat]

Apparently you can call Colorado Springs "Little London". There's also "Olympic City," due to the fact the US Olympic Committee has a large training center in the city. I spent a week there, uh, in the previous century, trying out for the Men's soccer team (I failed...) I do recall on the flight into the city, there was a hellacious cross-wind blowing off the Front Range and across the runway. Other than us soccer players, most of the passengers seemed to be Air Force cadets, and they were whooping it up as the pilot fought the wind to land us. I've never been on another plane that landed going as fast as that one. When he hit the brakes and thrust reversers it was like hitting a wall.

I had a relative who lived there with his family for a few years, I visited them once. All I recall is it was somewhere in the southern suburbs and they've moved away from there many years back.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

It's THE Springs.

There is a northern area of town, up near the AFA, and then the interstate takes a big curve downtown by the Rodeo HoF and you move into a very different area of the city. Then, closer to the foothills west of town down by Ft Carson, the vibe is very different still. It really feels like modern Suburban America to the north, then a fair-sized bustling city further south, then an old rural area out west by Manitou Springs.

The military influence is strong, but the Evangelical Christian influence is even stronger. And AFA cadets are all insufferable assholes, as a rule.

You got that right. I was stationed at Peterson Air Force Base, now Peterson Space Forces Base , back when it was Peterson Field, the Kydets would come roaring on base in their corvettes and blow right past the main gate. It was a controlled entry base. I was a cop. I pulled many a Kydet over for failure to stop at the main gate. These were the wannabe pilots who came down to take flight instruction in the T-33s. They would try to pull rank on me and I'd tell them they talking to a colonel. (Base Commander was a Colonel, I represented him on base) Anyway they got the ticket, after that I really didn't care but I would follow them down to the flight line.

And yes it was The Springs. Of course the last time I was there was back in the 70s.

And you could catch a plane from there to Denver for $25 bucks because it intrastate travel. No federal taxes.

And I lived on a street called... son of a... they changed the name of the street. I guess the name Catch the Shit in Spanish was offensive. It's now Peterson Road.

 

[Comshaw]

One of the peculiar things to know about Southern California, if you write a story based there, is that the residents refer to freeways with the article "the" before the numbers. "The 5." "The 405." The 10."

So Cal residents say "I took the 405 to the 10 to get downtown."

North of Los Angeles, Californians do not do this. Nobody in Northern California does this.

OR Oregon or Washington. It ain't a coastal thing fer sure.

Comshaw

 

[Haulover]

My specific dilemma is about Colorado Springs, which is featured prominently in the story I'm currently working on, with references to real locations that I've already researched. My problem is that in dialog that would otherwise be short and clipped, "Colorado Springs" seems clunky and redundant. Do locals shorten it to "'Springs" or "C-Springs" or something like that?

I've been there many times.

Locals call it 'the Springs'.

 

[gunhilltrain]

OR Oregon or Washington. It ain't a coastal thing fer sure.

Comshaw

So they say "I-405" or "I-10" or whatever? In New York, interstate numbers are really used. I-95 is either the New Jersey Turnpike or the New England Thruway. North of New Haven and south of Trenton the number comes back into use.

 

[SimonDoom]

So they say "I-405" or "I-10" or whatever? In New York, interstate numbers are really used. I-95 is either the New Jersey Turnpike or the New England Thruway. North of New Haven and south of Trenton the number comes back into use.

In Northern California, people usually just use the number. They might preface it with "Highway" or possibly "I." With respect to Interstate 5, which runs all the way from the Washington border with Canada to the California border with Mexico, it's not uncommon to refer to it as "I-5." You could say, "I took 5 to get to Redding," or "I took I-5 to get to Redding."

I think it's because LA started having a freeway network earlier than most places, and the freeways had names, like "The Santa Monica Freeway" or "The Arroyo Seco Freeway" (now the "Pasadena Freeway"), the first freeway in the US, and the use of the article stuck even as eventually the vernacular moved toward numbers.

I've spent time in both parts of the state and the different usage is striking, and peculiar.

 

[PennameWombat]

So they say "I-405" or "I-10" or whatever? In New York, interstate numbers are really used. I-95 is either the New Jersey Turnpike or the New England Thruway. North of New Haven and south of Trenton the number comes back into use.

I lived in New York and agree with this. It was "I'll be taking the Thruway" or "the Turnpike." Where it got confusing was when it came to the various Parkways (Saw Mill River, Taconic State, etc.) For those we'd use their 'name', e.g., "the Taconic" (or whichever, these weren't numbered, weren't interstate highways.)

In Utah, the state's bisected by I-80 and I-15, which cross in Salt Lake City. I-70 has a stretch in the southeast, and I-84 runs northwesterly from Brigham City. But, for us, common usage was "I'll be taking the freeway to <destination>" and letting the destination indicate which one, since it was generally one-to-one. For the rare cases, such as going to Denver (via I-80 thence I-25 (fastest) or via I-15 thence I-70 or via US-40E thence I-70 (shortest, but not all Interstates), you might specify. "Going through Cheyenne", which would imply I-80; "past Dinosaur", implies US-40...)

In Oregon, I recall "I-5" and "5" (or "84", the east-west interstate). But using "the I-5 Corridor," had double meaning. It referred to the interstate, but it was also a cultural indicator. All of the state's large cities and the bulk of its population are along I-5, and the political leanings differ radically once you leave "the corridor" and head into the much larger and more sparsely populated regions.

 

[BiscuitHammer]

'Noo-carsle' to a Cockney, 'Nyuh-cassel' or 'The Toon' to a Geordie!

One of my characters in the Alexaverse, Lady Jenny Penrose, is always complaining about people from Tyne. 'Ugh. Damn Geordies...'

'Damn Brummies...'

'Damn Scousers...'

'Damn Janners...'

(the last one is funny, because she happens to be the Countess Greymoor, stationed squarely in Devonshire)

 

[gunhilltrain]

I lived in New York and agree with this. It was "I'll be taking the Thruway" or "the Turnpike." Where it got confusing was when it came to the various Parkways (Saw Mill River, Taconic State, etc.) For those we'd use their 'name', e.g., "the Taconic" (or whichever, these weren't numbered, weren't interstate highways.)

In Utah, the state's bisected by I-80 and I-15, which cross in Salt Lake City. I-70 has a stretch in the southeast, and I-84 runs northwesterly from Brigham City. But, for us, common usage was "I'll be taking the freeway to <destination>" and letting the destination indicate which one, since it was generally one-to-one. For the rare cases, such as going to Denver (via I-80 thence I-25 (fastest) or via I-15 thence I-70 or via US-40E thence I-70 (shortest, but not all Interstates), you might specify. "Going through Cheyenne", which would imply I-80; "past Dinosaur", implies US-40...)

In Oregon, I recall "I-5" and "5" (or "84", the east-west interstate). But using "the I-5 Corridor," had double meaning. It referred to the interstate, but it was also a cultural indicator. All of the state's large cities and the bulk of its population are along I-5, and the political leanings differ radically once you leave "the corridor" and head into the much larger and more sparsely populated regions.

None of the Parkways have numbers. In fact, it's one of the few places in the country where there are roads that don't allow trucks or most buses (although the Garden State Parkway allows them along one stretch where there are no alternatives). On the FDR Drive (formerly the East River Drive) in Manhattan, an occasional bus will get misrouted and the roof may be sheared off by the low bridges. Built in 1940, the road is totally obsolete for modern traffic, but it would be nearly impossible to redo it.

FDR bus crash

 

[PennameWombat]

None of the Parkways have numbers. In fact, it's one of the few places in the country where there are roads that don't allow trucks or most buses (although the Garden State Parkway allows them along one stretch where there are no alternatives). On the FDR Drive (formerly the East River Drive) in Manhattan, an occasional bus will get misrouted and the roof may be sheared off by the low bridges. Built in 1940, the road is totally obsolete for modern traffic, but it would be nearly impossible to redo it.

FDR bus crash

The no trucks on the parkways . Back around 1990, a buddy of mine owned a Nissan compact pickup (Aussies: think small ute). Unlike modern pickups, it was hardly larger than a midsize auto. But it had an open bed.

One day he was pulled over and given a ticket while driving on the Taconic State Parkway. The ‘no trucks’ rule. He was . He swore to fight it, all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary.

His key point was that his ‘truck’ was smaller than the SUVs that were becoming common and were honestly larger than his Nissan. And were allowed on the Taconic (and the other Parkways.)

He went to court. Lost. Because, his Nissan was listed as a ‘truck.’ The open bed, even with a ‘cover,’ if it wasn’t part of the vehicle’s structure it didn‘t count. Despite the size.

I believe it was his wife who yelled at him enough to “just pay the fine, already, and shut up!” She didn’t share his sense of injustice.

When I left the area the Taconic was in the midst of a multi-year project to modify it for modern traffic volumes and speeds. Southbound, there was one downhill ’ess’ curve stretch that was… well, every time I drove it I expected to find a vehicle wrapped around a tree. On a rainy or snowy evening it was… um, well, let’s just say it concentrated your attention. The modified stretch was near boring .

 

[gunhilltrain]

The no trucks on the parkways . Back around 1990, a buddy of mine owned a Nissan compact pickup (Aussies: think small ute). Unlike modern pickups, it was hardly larger than a midsize auto. But it had an open bed.

One day he was pulled over and given a ticket while driving on the Taconic State Parkway. The ‘no trucks’ rule. He was . He swore to fight it, all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary.

His key point was that his ‘truck’ was smaller than the SUVs that were becoming common and were honestly larger than his Nissan. And were allowed on the Taconic (and the other Parkways.)

He went to court. Lost. Because, his Nissan was listed as a ‘truck.’ The open bed, even with a ‘cover,’ if it wasn’t part of the vehicle’s structure it didn‘t count. Despite the size.

I believe it was his wife who yelled at him enough to “just pay the fine, already, and shut up!” She didn’t share his sense of injustice.

When I left the area the Taconic was in the midst of a multi-year project to modify it for modern traffic volumes and speeds. Southbound, there was one downhill ’ess’ curve stretch that was… well, every time I drove it I expected to find a vehicle wrapped around a tree. On a rainy or snowy evening it was… um, well, let’s just say it concentrated your attention. The modified stretch was near boring .

I think that those roads are still picky about pick-ups of any size. I don't see any on the Bronx River Parkway, and that leads into the Taconic. I do know someone who got a ticket for that in the 1990s on the Palisades Interstate Parkway in New Jersey.

Of course, some of those SUVs are huge and there are more of them than ever. I guess the "open bed" idea is just a way to simplify the lives of the cops who have to write the tickets. They don't have to make any judgment calls that way.