How should Sharon respond to the latest bombing?
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p_p_man
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bored1 said:
Well as his policy of killing 50 Palestinians for every Israeli hasn't worked his resignation would help.
But if I lived in Florida I might object.
No. Resignation and a quick one way ticket to The Hague where he can at last stand trial for War Crimes is definitely the right response.
ppman
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SINthysist
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"He should target the biggest Palestinian military facility in existance and bomb the hell out of it."
Yes, but it will take time for the American's to build a coalition to take out Saddam. So Israel must be patient and turn the other cheek (although they must be pretty butt-sore by now...).
Yes, but it will take time for the American's to build a coalition to take out Saddam. So Israel must be patient and turn the other cheek (although they must be pretty butt-sore by now...).
SINthysist
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Actually, cap him with a low-speed 9mm. A wad cutter...
When I put down animals, sometimes the nine passes right through and doesn't kill in one shot...
The wad mushes around inside...
When I put down animals, sometimes the nine passes right through and doesn't kill in one shot...
The wad mushes around inside...
SINthysist
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Another, better thought occurs to me.
Get to the root of the problem.
Bomb Mecca...
They have newks you know...
Get to the root of the problem.
Bomb Mecca...
They have newks you know...
madelaine angel
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What's the difference between Israel and Dwight Yorke?
Israel knew when to pulol out of Jordan...
erm, you probably have to be british to get that one...
Israel knew when to pulol out of Jordan...
erm, you probably have to be british to get that one...
Somebody please help me, as I've never understood the whole "coalition building" idea. If the US wants to nail Iraq, why do they need the Saudis, etc.? They won't contribute troops or planes, and may not allow the use of bases there even if they "bless" Bush's plans for Saddam. And, (for the most part)they already despise the US, so that isn't a consideration, either. Then why?
Just stick with the more dependable folks who usually see things the same way: the Brits, Canada, Australia, Israel, perhaps Turkey, etc.
PS: It will be fascinating if Arafat cheers American casualties during that like he did a decade ago. The US reaction might then start solving the "other" Middle East problem.
PPS: Any good Saddam BDSM stories?
JazzManJim
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Were I Sharon in this situation I would send something like this:
To: The Leaders of the United States, Great Britain, the European Union, The Republic of Russia, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, et. al., and the Secretary General of the United Nations.
I have recently been asked by the United States, at the behest of several other nations including some of those listed here, to withdraw my military from some of the territories which many claim to be "disputed territory". I have begun this process, though not as quickly as some might have wished. I have given my reasons for the speed of this withdrawal in detail to several of you and have noted repeatedly the need of the Israeli People and of the military forces which protect them, for security and as much safety as I am able to give them. I did so because many of you advised me that doing so would relieve significant pressure from this ongoing crisis.
I allowed Yasser Arafat his freedom from his compound in Ramallah also at the behst of many of you, because I took your words in good faith. Many of you, including those of you from neighboring countries who purport to have some influence on Mr. Arafat, assured me that doing so would relieve some significant pressure from this ongoing crisis.
I have traveled to the United States bearing significant proof of Mr. Arafat's direct involvement in several internationally-recognized terrorist organizations. This information was developed by my countries' intelligence organization and we have offered it to not only the UNited States, but also Britain and several other nations for their independent appraisal and verification. I have also traveled her to speak with President Bush and others about resuming some manner of negotiations. I have been publicly skeptical about the utility of negotiations, based on the results of other negotiations which have involved my predecessors. Yet I have come.
While I was in the United States, after having agreed to a withdrawal of my troops and after allowing Mr. Arafat his freedom, there was another direct attack on the civilians of Israel. There was no pretense involved of being a legitimate military operation. It was simple slaughter of people who lack the ability to directly defend themselves. I can not allow that to continue. Mr. Arafat promised decisive and quick actions against those who prepetrated this. The responsible organization has proudly confessed to this mass murder and, based on the intelligence evidence we have provided many of you, we know that Mr. Arafat has direct influence on this organization. We also know the true value of Mr. Arafat's promises. He has promised speedy justice before and has failed not only to deliver it but also to even make a pretenst of delivering it. It in clear both in word and deed that Mr. Arafat seeks the complete destruction of the nation of Israel. I can not allow that to happen, nor can any of you.
The people of Israel elected me their leader, fully knowing my stance on the security of this State and the lenghts to which I will go to ensure that security. Mr. Arafat and his organizations present a clear and present danger to the security of my country. I have been given a duty by my people as their democratically-elected leader. I must carry it out. I will not betray their trust.
With this in mind, I am imploring each of you to use every resource at your disposal to bring Mr. Arafat and his associates to heel. I have done much of what you have asked of me and have received nothing in return. I can not and will not continue to follow that path of negotiation. Mr. Arafat must now give up something of his own. We ask that he immediately cease the mass murder of our civilian population. We ask that you do what you must to ensure that he does so.
If he does not, then I must do my duty as the people of Israel have given it to me. I must end this in whatever way I am able. I do not wish to do this, but he leaves me no other viable option.
Sincerely,
Ariel Sharon
Prime Minister
To: The Leaders of the United States, Great Britain, the European Union, The Republic of Russia, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, et. al., and the Secretary General of the United Nations.
I have recently been asked by the United States, at the behest of several other nations including some of those listed here, to withdraw my military from some of the territories which many claim to be "disputed territory". I have begun this process, though not as quickly as some might have wished. I have given my reasons for the speed of this withdrawal in detail to several of you and have noted repeatedly the need of the Israeli People and of the military forces which protect them, for security and as much safety as I am able to give them. I did so because many of you advised me that doing so would relieve significant pressure from this ongoing crisis.
I allowed Yasser Arafat his freedom from his compound in Ramallah also at the behst of many of you, because I took your words in good faith. Many of you, including those of you from neighboring countries who purport to have some influence on Mr. Arafat, assured me that doing so would relieve some significant pressure from this ongoing crisis.
I have traveled to the United States bearing significant proof of Mr. Arafat's direct involvement in several internationally-recognized terrorist organizations. This information was developed by my countries' intelligence organization and we have offered it to not only the UNited States, but also Britain and several other nations for their independent appraisal and verification. I have also traveled her to speak with President Bush and others about resuming some manner of negotiations. I have been publicly skeptical about the utility of negotiations, based on the results of other negotiations which have involved my predecessors. Yet I have come.
While I was in the United States, after having agreed to a withdrawal of my troops and after allowing Mr. Arafat his freedom, there was another direct attack on the civilians of Israel. There was no pretense involved of being a legitimate military operation. It was simple slaughter of people who lack the ability to directly defend themselves. I can not allow that to continue. Mr. Arafat promised decisive and quick actions against those who prepetrated this. The responsible organization has proudly confessed to this mass murder and, based on the intelligence evidence we have provided many of you, we know that Mr. Arafat has direct influence on this organization. We also know the true value of Mr. Arafat's promises. He has promised speedy justice before and has failed not only to deliver it but also to even make a pretenst of delivering it. It in clear both in word and deed that Mr. Arafat seeks the complete destruction of the nation of Israel. I can not allow that to happen, nor can any of you.
The people of Israel elected me their leader, fully knowing my stance on the security of this State and the lenghts to which I will go to ensure that security. Mr. Arafat and his organizations present a clear and present danger to the security of my country. I have been given a duty by my people as their democratically-elected leader. I must carry it out. I will not betray their trust.
With this in mind, I am imploring each of you to use every resource at your disposal to bring Mr. Arafat and his associates to heel. I have done much of what you have asked of me and have received nothing in return. I can not and will not continue to follow that path of negotiation. Mr. Arafat must now give up something of his own. We ask that he immediately cease the mass murder of our civilian population. We ask that you do what you must to ensure that he does so.
If he does not, then I must do my duty as the people of Israel have given it to me. I must end this in whatever way I am able. I do not wish to do this, but he leaves me no other viable option.
Sincerely,
Ariel Sharon
Prime Minister
Silverluna
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I would hop up and down and scream: SEE SEE THE NEGOTIATIONS DID DIDDLY SHIT!
Then I would let the leash go and bring these terroists down...
You can't rationalize with terrorist supporting bastards....
Then I would let the leash go and bring these terroists down...
You can't rationalize with terrorist supporting bastards....
Silverluna
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Draco said:How about a nice slow hollow point from close range?
Like point blank.
Now if we could strap a few pounds of C4 to him, (Arafat), then send him on a presidential vist to Saddams palace, two birds with one bomb....
Just a thought.....
Great plan...just ok...lets say Saddam himself is killed....who would take his place...we would have to act fast and accuratly to make sure someone else would assume his reign of terror.(nice AV)
JazzManJim
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p_p_man said:
1) Because both sides have been negotiating in good faith.
2) Because neither side continues to publicy call for the complete destruction of the other.
3) Because neither side is being actively funded to continue their terrorist actions.
4) Because neither side has neighboring countries urging them to continue their terrorist activities.
5) Because each side has a leader who is both capable and willing to knock off the continuing violence and sit down and talk out a peace settlement.
Silverluna
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I did...the northern ireland dudes ...arent terroists...they are militants...they dont blow up civilans...DELIBERATLY....p_p_man said:
QuickDuck
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Oh god... i am finding myself agreeing with p.p.man... must be time to up my medication 
Seriously though, this is an argument that has roots going back beyond biblical times so whatever happens, it aint going to be easy.
I agree that Sharon cannot sit back and accept the bombing, but invading another country is not the answer.... and never should be.
By doing that, you become just as bad as them.
The answer? no idea.
All i can say is to do the "sit down and talk" thing again and again and again for as long as you have to.
(btw Jim, i did like your letter and thought it was well written. It stated a very good case.)
on a sidepoint... i see people referring to Saddam and let me refer to three times during Opperation Desert Storm, when coalition forces were in a possition to take him out.
once by a bitish sniper, once by the US infantry and once by an air strike.
the sniper instead, was told to shoot the radio on the shelf next to him.
the message? "we don;t like the music"
The reason he has not been taken out, is because he is actually holding the country together.
Without him at the head, then the country will fall into civil war or worse, his brother will come to power.... someone who apparently has an even worse reputation.
Other options? move in and occupy it? why waste the time, money and resources? I am sure the last thing the US wants to do is set up another puppet government and have to keep a military presence in yet another country.
Seriously though, this is an argument that has roots going back beyond biblical times so whatever happens, it aint going to be easy.
I agree that Sharon cannot sit back and accept the bombing, but invading another country is not the answer.... and never should be.
By doing that, you become just as bad as them.
The answer? no idea.
All i can say is to do the "sit down and talk" thing again and again and again for as long as you have to.
(btw Jim, i did like your letter and thought it was well written. It stated a very good case.)
on a sidepoint... i see people referring to Saddam and let me refer to three times during Opperation Desert Storm, when coalition forces were in a possition to take him out.
once by a bitish sniper, once by the US infantry and once by an air strike.
the sniper instead, was told to shoot the radio on the shelf next to him.
the message? "we don;t like the music"
The reason he has not been taken out, is because he is actually holding the country together.
Without him at the head, then the country will fall into civil war or worse, his brother will come to power.... someone who apparently has an even worse reputation.
Other options? move in and occupy it? why waste the time, money and resources? I am sure the last thing the US wants to do is set up another puppet government and have to keep a military presence in yet another country.
p_p_man
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JazzManJim said:
Yes but that's now.
In the beginning it was a far different story with the peace proces going through an on-off stage for about two years before they even said 'hello' to each other.
And even now it's still very delicate.
Negotiating on anything is tough but negotiating on hammering out a peace plan is very, very tough.
Instant satisfaction it ain't...
M
miles
Guest
Well said, Jim
How much more evidence is needed before people finally understand that this isn't about a Palestinian homeland, but the destruction of Israel. It's a total sham.
I'm sick of it. Give them the land they claim is theirs. The terrorism won't stop, and their defenders will continue to wring their collective hands to justify anything they do.
Then if you were Israel, what would you do?
How much more evidence is needed before people finally understand that this isn't about a Palestinian homeland, but the destruction of Israel. It's a total sham.
I'm sick of it. Give them the land they claim is theirs. The terrorism won't stop, and their defenders will continue to wring their collective hands to justify anything they do.
Then if you were Israel, what would you do?
dreamer
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ACK! I can't believe I'm jumping into a political thread...my psychologist told me not too...sigh...
BUT
I think he, like any responsible leader of a sovereign nation should defend his legal borders. How anyone can see anything wrong with that is beyond me. These suicide bombers are not unassociated individuals working on their own whims. They are a state sponsered military unit being sent and paid by the Palestine government.
Japan used planes to drop bombs on our land. We declare war. Palestine is using human beings to deliver their ordinance. Why should Israel 'turn the other cheek?'
Oh well...it probably won't end until both sides are so sick of death they can't take any more. Right now, it seems both sides are still plenty bloodthirsty. Sad...just sad.
BUT
I think he, like any responsible leader of a sovereign nation should defend his legal borders. How anyone can see anything wrong with that is beyond me. These suicide bombers are not unassociated individuals working on their own whims. They are a state sponsered military unit being sent and paid by the Palestine government.
Japan used planes to drop bombs on our land. We declare war. Palestine is using human beings to deliver their ordinance. Why should Israel 'turn the other cheek?'
Oh well...it probably won't end until both sides are so sick of death they can't take any more. Right now, it seems both sides are still plenty bloodthirsty. Sad...just sad.
JazzManJim
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p_p_man said:
Yes but that's now.
In the beginning it was a far different story with the peace proces going through an on-off stage for about two years before they even said 'hello' to each other.
And even now it's still very delicate.
Negotiating on anything is tough but negotiating on hammering out a peace plan is very, very tough.
Instant satisfaction it ain't...
I understand that. But constrast the two years in Northern Ireland with the over 20 in the Middle East. We've attemtped negotiations for two decades there and there's been no notable improvement whatever.
I believe that it's entirely due to the Palestinian leadership, such as that might be, and the countries around them egging it on. Israel has tried negotiating with a variety of leaders from hawks to doves and nothing's worked. Their initial offer under Barak was damned near what the Palestinians wanted at that moment and instead of counteroffering, they walked away and the killings started again.
That's not faulty negotiation. That's lying. And we ought to take them to task for it. Until that's done, I don't see this going anywhere.
The question I think needs to be asked is why, if the Israeli's so desperately want a peace negotiation settled, did they vote in Sharon, who has been nothing but obvious for years about his stance on the situation? My only conclusion is that they saw, after Barak, what the Palestinian leadership really wanted, and they got sick of it.
