How many people actually believe this?

[bg23]

Because we need another thread on this! In the aftermath of the Akin "illegitimate rape doesn't cause pregnancy" idiocy I saw this article quoting people who actually think he has a point:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rebeccaelliott/9-people-who-think-todd-akin-had-a-point-about-bio

This is in regards to the tenuous "scientific" claim that women exposed to the physical trauma of rape experience a biological reaction that rejects that pregnancy.

I was curious as to the scientific basis of that claim so I did a quick wiki, and although it looks like the bulk of medical evidence says the chances of conceiving are the same, there's actually, well...dispute on it. Which isn't that surprising, given the spectrum of things humans are capable of believing but I never thought the basics of...how is babby formed...would actually be something to be debated. Penis go in, baby come out is disputable?

But how widespread is this belief that women have magical self-abort-in-case-of-rape vajayjays?

And just how scientifically sound is it?

 

[warrior queen]

Well, from personal experience, I can absolutely say that my cunt had no idea what hit it, and reacted by not only getting impregnated, but by fostering a pelvic inflammatory infection as a result.

 

[lovetoread]

The same people who believe this are the same ones who say it isn't rape if the rapist wears a condom cause the rapee requests it.

 

[CandiCame]

I would say that there might be a lot of stress in the pregnancy, which is never good for the baby. I don't know that it would be bad enough to auto-abort or anything, but I know that if it's a kid you don't want and there are laws saying that you can't get rid of it, some folk probably wouldn't be watching their teterogens like other would. I mean, aggressive personality disorder is hereditary, so I understand the mentality of, "Well, this kid's gonna be crazy anyway." and then not watching to make sure they don't eat sushi, don't smoke, don't experience stress, etc.

Not my personal take, but people do shit, you know.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

What the whole issue really points out, as far as Science goes, that oftentimes when presented with a fact established by independent studies, such as salt and hyper-tension, which many politicians such as Nanny Bloomberg have actually acted upon, with time and more study are shown to be fallacious.

To think that stress would have no effect on the human body would be ludicrous and I know the Chinese believe and even saw one recent study showing that a woman can affect the sex of her fetus.

Is that true?

Who knows?

But there are many things we knew, in the 70s, based on the best (Pop-) Science of the day, to be factual that are proving today to be just not so, assuming, of course that the theories of the day today are themselves not fallacies born of studies conducted with a specific result in mind.

 

[bg23]

I would say that there might be a lot of stress in the pregnancy, which is never good for the baby. I don't know that it would be bad enough to auto-abort or anything, but I know that if it's a kid you don't want and there are laws saying that you can't get rid of it, some folk probably wouldn't be watching their teterogens like other would. I mean, aggressive personality disorder is hereditary, so I understand the mentality of, "Well, this kid's gonna be crazy anyway." and then not watching to make sure they don't eat sushi, don't smoke, don't experience stress, etc.

Not my personal take, but people do shit, you know.

You misunderstand. I don't mean auto-abort in the sense that it should automatically aborted.

What I'm referring to is the idea some people have that, when women get raped, their bodies respond in such a way as to just flat out prevent the pregnancy from happening, or get rid of it or whatever, hence "magical vajayjay with the ability to auto-abort" although I probably misuse the word abort there.

 

[bg23]

Well, from personal experience, I can absolutely say that my cunt had no idea what hit it, and reacted by not only getting impregnated, but by fostering a pelvic inflammatory infection as a result.

That's at least one example where injury doesn't stop you from conceiving.

 

[bg23]

The same people who believe this are the same ones who say it isn't rape if the rapist wears a condom cause the rapee requests it.

i should just quit being surprised by stupid people.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

People believe every goddamned combination and permutation of fact & fantasy there is. Akin isnt the exception, he's the rule.

 

[CandiCame]

You misunderstand. I don't mean auto-abort in the sense that it should automatically aborted.

What I'm referring to is the idea some people have that, when women get raped, their bodies respond in such a way as to just flat out prevent the pregnancy from happening, or get rid of it or whatever, hence "magical vajayjay with the ability to auto-abort" although I probably misuse the word abort there.

Like it's just so traumatic that your body goes into a stress state and just stays that way and shuts down all non-essential life functions? I guess... but I don't think it would last long enough to prevent pregnancy. Sperm can live for days in the fallopian tubes swimming around looking for something to share DNA with. Then again, I'm not a doctor. But I'd have to say it sounds far-fetched to me.

But I know that when you're super stressed you can auto-abort as in the baby's nervous system responds to the stress from the mother and dies/gets defects. In a perfect world we'd give every mom a year of paid off-time to drink organic smoothies and do prenatal-yoga and listen to those self affirming tapes or whatever it is you do to have the perfect pregnancy.

Goddamn I'd be a horrible boyfriend to have while you were pregnant. I see myself being really fucking annoying. I'm like Hal holding up flash cards and singing to a fetus. And you're like, "Get the fuck away from my stomach. You've been doing that 6 hours. I'm going to use my super pregancy strength to punch you right in the fucking spleen."

And I'm like, "No! This will help the baby learn French!! I want me one of them prodigy superbabies!"

And then I get punched in the spleen.

 

[Recidiva]

You misunderstand. I don't mean auto-abort in the sense that it should automatically aborted.

What I'm referring to is the idea some people have that, when women get raped, their bodies respond in such a way as to just flat out prevent the pregnancy from happening, or get rid of it or whatever, hence "magical vajayjay with the ability to auto-abort" although I probably misuse the word abort there.

It's speculation in that there's no real way to provide any sort of experimentation or trial or control group.

The empiric evidence shows that women that report rape get pregnant, so what is the scientific basis of contradicting that?

I don't think this is a science issue so much as an opinion.

"We're running an experiment, would you agree to be brutally raped while in an FMRI?" Odds are that anybody consenting to that wouldn't be the target audience.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

It's speculation in that there's no real way to provide any sort of experimentation or trial or control group.

The empiric evidence shows that women that report rape get pregnant, so what is the scientific basis of contradicting that?

I don't think this is a science issue so much as an opinion.

"We're running an experiment, would you agree to be brutally raped while in an FMRI?" Odds are that anybody consenting to that wouldn't be the target audience.

Good point.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/314718/akin-and-his-critics-mona-charen

 

[CandiCame]

It's speculation in that there's no real way to provide any sort of experimentation or trial or control group.

The empiric evidence shows that women that report rape get pregnant, so what is the scientific basis of contradicting that?

I don't think this is a science issue so much as an opinion.

"We're running an experiment, would you agree to be brutally raped while in an FMRI?" Odds are that anybody consenting to that wouldn't be the target audience.

Bet you could do it in China. That's where they did the "Does smoking hurt fetuses" experiments in the 70s. So I bet you could do anything there.

I don't know what the peramiters would be... but I'm not a scientist.

You know what's extra stupid about this whole thing? There are only like 30,000 women who need this service every year. I can't imagine that's expensive enough to be bitching about with all the other shit that fuckers waste money on. Give up a private jet- jetpool. It's like a carpool but with jets, and this would be a non-issue.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Like it's just so traumatic that your body goes into a stress state and just stays that way and shuts down all non-essential life functions? I guess... but I don't think it would last long enough to prevent pregnancy. Sperm can live for days in the fallopian tubes swimming around looking for something to share DNA with. Then again, I'm not a doctor. But I'd have to say it sounds far-fetched to me.

But I know that when you're super stressed you can auto-abort as in the baby's nervous system responds to the stress from the mother and dies/gets defects. In a perfect world we'd give every mom a year of paid off-time to drink organic smoothies and do prenatal-yoga and listen to those self affirming tapes or whatever it is you do to have the perfect pregnancy.

Goddamn I'd be a horrible boyfriend to have while you were pregnant. I see myself being really fucking annoying. I'm like Hal holding up flash cards and singing to a fetus. And you're like, "Get the fuck away from my stomach. You've been doing that 6 hours. I'm going to use my super pregancy strength to punch you right in the fucking spleen."

And I'm like, "No! This will help the baby learn French!! I want me one of them prodigy superbabies!"

And then I get punched in the spleen.

Hal - Reese, I grok...

 

[Recidiva]

Good point.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/314718/akin-and-his-critics-mona-charen

Although there might be something to it in that each woman's body responds differently to stress...then that's the argument in itself contradicting itself. Each woman's body responds differently to stress. You can't say anything about "all women."

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Although there might be something to it in that each woman's body responds differently to stress...then that's the argument in itself contradicting itself. Each woman's body responds differently to stress. You can't say anything about "all women."

:nods:

 

[Recidiva]

:nods:

I can say from treatment of my headaches that I was told that "stress" was the cause. They were wrong. It's chemistry.

I think "stress" is the modern medical bogeyman that is used by unscrupulous practitioners in a way to blame the victim and in earnest practitioners a way to excuse lack of results and give hope.

However to me it breaks down to the same thing as a faith healer telling someone who isn't cured that they don't have enough faith.

It's a means to extend failure and provide legitimacy in the way that hamburger helper is intended to extend ground beef.

Yes, stress is a real thing, but we're unbelievably quick to believe it's a determining factor.

 

[CandiCame]

Hal - Reese, I grok...

I love that show.

 

[CandiCame]

I can say from treatment of my headaches that I was told that "stress" was the cause. They were wrong. It's chemistry.

I think "stress" is the modern medical bogeyman that is used by unscrupulous practitioners in a way to blame the victim and in earnest practitioners a way to excuse lack of results and give hope.

However to me it breaks down to the same thing as a faith healer telling someone who isn't cured that they don't have enough faith.

It's a means to extend failure and provide legitimacy in the way that hamburger helper is intended to extend ground beef.

Yes, stress is a real thing, but we're unbelievably quick to believe it's a determining factor.

Well, most medical folk mean chemical stress. Like how dendrites become "stressed" and send out neurotransmitters or muscles becomes "stressed" and send out amino acids. I think that they're using the scientific meaning of stress and people are reading it in the layman's terms. Kind of like how people say "Evolution is a theory" meaning that they think of a theory as a synonym for hypothesis, as it is commonly used, whereas the scientific community uses "Theory" to mean a catagory under "law".

 

[warrior queen]

That's at least one example where injury doesn't stop you from conceiving.

True.
Although 2 years of antibiotics to eradicate the infection meant it took a long time for me to get back to full health, and I miscarried twice before I had my first child.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

I can say from treatment of my headaches that I was told that "stress" was the cause. They were wrong. It's chemistry.

I think "stress" is the modern medical bogeyman that is used by unscrupulous practitioners in a way to blame the victim and in earnest practitioners a way to excuse lack of results and give hope.

However to me it breaks down to the same thing as a faith healer telling someone who isn't cured that they don't have enough faith.

It's a means to extend failure and provide legitimacy in the way that hamburger helper is intended to extend ground beef.

Yes, stress is a real thing, but we're unbelievably quick to believe it's a determining factor.

Now, General Patton, slap that soldier and tell him to buck up and BE A MAN!

I love that show.

It is a classic.

 

[CandiCame]

True.
Although 2 years of antibiotics to eradicate the infection meant it took a long time for me to get back to full health, and I miscarried twice before I had my first child.

God, WQ, that's a sad story...

 

[Recidiva]

Now, General Patton, slap that soldier and tell him to buck up and BE A MAN!

I thought I must be the most stressed out person on earth. I meditated like mad and got no stress in my life and still...guess what...had headaches.

Of course Imitrex clears that up.

Yes, stress has real causes and real effects, but I see so much bullshit with it being used as this mythical end-all-be-all.

In this case it's not insulting, but it's also not at all illuminating to the subject.

"I know a lot of ladies that do better having children once they relax" is entirely anedotal when also accompanied by IVF treatments, hormones and injections.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

Yeah, I have no idea about the effects, so I am keeping an open mind...



I never did stop using salt.

 

[warrior queen]

God, WQ, that's a sad story...

I have well and trully come to terms with what happened to me.
It was a long time ago.
Yeah, it's sad, but it's also very much in the past.
Good things happened since then