How long is too long for a disclaimer?

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I'm glad I remembered that this thread exists as I've been considering the usage of author's notes for a couple things I'm working on right now!

It kind of came up in one of the earlier comments:


How do you feel about author's notes to disclose mood spoilers?

I've honestly always been very attracted to sad or ambiguous endings to stories (eg. Handmaiden's Tale, The Giver). I'm always joking about how I'd love to kill of my main character at the end but I don't know when I'll work up the courage to do that for stories published on this site

However, there's a story I'm writing where I anticipate writing a sort of un-satisfying ending. It won't be happy, for sure. I'd hate for readers to get through the whole story and then feel betrayed at that ending after being made to care about the protagonist, so I've toyed with the idea of disclosing it at the beginning. But at the same time, I can't help but feel like it would detract from my vision of the story.

Do you think this is category dependent issue? (It wouldn't go in romance) Are there other places you would try to disclose this, or would you just post it and let the readers think what they do when they get to the end?

I'm just wondering what others think

Depends. I think it would be a common courtesy to put a disclaimer about content likely to trip up a veteran's or abuse survior's PTSD

 

[Bramblethorn]

How do you feel about author's notes to disclose mood spoilers?

I've honestly always been very attracted to sad or ambiguous endings to stories (eg. Handmaiden's Tale, The Giver). I'm always joking about how I'd love to kill of my main character at the end but I don't know when I'll work up the courage to do that for stories published on this site

However, there's a story I'm writing where I anticipate writing a sort of un-satisfying ending. It won't be happy, for sure. I'd hate for readers to get through the whole story and then feel betrayed at that ending after being made to care about the protagonist, so I've toyed with the idea of disclosing it at the beginning. But at the same time, I can't help but feel like it would detract from my vision of the story.

Content signalling, in one form or another, is ubiquitous in fiction. Cover art, brand-splitting ("DC" vs. "Vertigo"), pseudonym-splitting ("Iain Banks" vs. "Iain M. Banks", "Seanan McGuire" vs. "Mira Grant"), blurbs and other marketing... a lot of work goes into showing readers what they're going to get for their money, with mood and "happy ending" considerations being an important part of that.

The options available vary from one venue to another - e.g. using cover art to signal content hasn't really been an option for most of Literotica's existence, and is still quite limited in scope. So the solutions that are appropriate here aren't always going to match what's optimal in print publishing. Still, we have some tools at our disposal, including an opening author's note.

As you've seen, there are times when I think they're appropriate, and Loss Function isn't the only story where I've used them. But they're rarely my first preference. Where possible I like to handle that kind of thing in-story.

Horror in particular often uses non-chronological storytelling to manage reader expectations. When you introduce the story with something like "manuscript of Captain Jack Sailorman, found floating in a bloodstained bottle six months after the disappearance of his ship", it's a pretty strong hint that this might be an "everybody dies" kind of tale.

I've done something similar with several of my "unhappy ending" stories; indeed, some (not all) of the stuff mentioned in that author's note is also telegraphed by the beginning of the story proper. Conversely, I used it in "The Floggings Will Continue" to signal to readers that these two characters are going to come out of it all right.

Do you think this is category dependent issue? (It wouldn't go in romance) Are there other places you would try to disclose this, or would you just post it and let the readers think what they do when they get to the end?

I'm just wondering what others think

Context dependent, with category being part of that context. In trad publishing I would make less use of opening notes than I do on Literotica, and there are things I'd warn about on Ao3 that I haven't warned about here, because it's a different readership with different expectations.

Within Literotica... LF is a story that could have gone in several different categories. If I'd posted it in SF, I probably wouldn't have included that mood warning. But Romance has strong default expectations for a happy ending and I was really pushing the limits of what belongs there, so I took a more conservative approach than I otherwise might have.

 

[sophism]

Depends. I think it would be a common courtesy to put a disclaimer about content likely to trip up a veteran's or abuse survior's PTSD

This makes sense.

Although, I had an angry comment once about there being nonconsensual sexual content in a story (there was no trigger warning at the beginning, but it also wasn't the most intense NC content). I've only written for NC/R though, so it definitely made me ??? for a second.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

This makes sense.

Although, I had an angry comment once about there being nonconsensual sexual content in a story (there was no trigger warning at the beginning, but it also wasn't the most intense NC content). I've only written for NC/R though, so it definitely made me ??? for a second.

I mean if they're upset that the non con category had non con in it that's their own fault for reading in the non con category at all

 

[sophism]

Horror in particular often uses non-chronological storytelling to manage reader expectations. When you introduce the story with something like "manuscript of Captain Jack Sailorman, found floating in a bloodstained bottle six months after the disappearance of his ship", it's a pretty strong hint that this might be an "everybody dies" kind of tale.

I've done something similar with several of my "unhappy ending" stories; indeed, some (not all) of the stuff mentioned in that author's note is also telegraphed by the beginning of the story proper. Conversely, I used it in "The Floggings Will Continue" to signal to readers that these two characters are going to come out of it all right.

This is an interesting take to circumventing the issue. I don't know that the ending will be as intense as 'everybody dies' - more of a 'wow the protagonist really just can't catch a break' kind of thing - but I'll have to consider if that's a technique I can use.

If I'd posted it in SF, I probably wouldn't have included that mood warning. But Romance has strong default expectations for a happy ending and I was really pushing the limits of what belongs there, so I took a more conservative approach than I otherwise might have.

Right. Either way it seems I have just a bit more to think about, with what category I plan to publish in and how intense the story will actually end up being.

All in all, I should probably just write the thing first. It could end up as a fluffy romance story regardless of what I plan for it.

 

[NakedNymph]

This is an interesting take to circumventing the issue. I don't know that the ending will be as intense as 'everybody dies' - more of a 'wow the protagonist really just can't catch a break' kind of thing - but I'll have to consider if that's a technique I can use.

https://lparchive.org/Umineko-no-Naku-Koro-ni-Chiru/Update%20112/15-2783.png
any of you who understand the reference on sight, please be my friend

 

[ElectricBlue]

That's such a poetic way to put things! I guess as a reader I have too many memories of being disappointed by stories that have darker endings than I anticipated when starting to read the story lol

Can I ask what you mean when you mention the disclaimers that you've used?

If you were disappointed with those darker endings, I'd say you wanted to read another stories, not the ones the authors wrote. Surely, though, there would have been clues earlier on that the stories were going to be bleak, not sunshine and butterflies?

My disclaimers have been along the lines of, "There will be the occasional bisexual scene herein," or "This is a long novel with many different sexual activities such as blah blah blah" - basically, if you can't handle this, don't even start reading, and don't tell me what you don't like, because I really don't care.

And once, "I'm writing in both Australian English and American English because I have American characters in Australia, so don't bother telling me I have inconsistent spelling. It's deliberate."

 

[Bramblethorn]

If you were disappointed with those darker endings, I'd say you wanted to read another stories, not the ones the authors wrote.

Well, yes. The question is how one figures out enough about what kind of story the author has written before reading it.

Surely, though, there would have been clues earlier on that the stories were going to be bleak, not sunshine and butterflies?

Good storytelling usually aims to give some hints about that kind of thing. But even with the greats it doesn't always happen, especially when the author's ideas shift during the writing.

Take something like "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court"; I doubt anybody could guess from the light-hearted opening chapters that it was going to end up with WWI-style carnage, people dying from the stench of rotting corpses, and the protag being separated from his loved ones forever.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

When I'm reading for pure fun, especially sexy fun, I like to know that there won't be unexpected sadness (unexpected anything else, I can generally cope with, or click away).

If I'm reading something more like Literature where the events or mood are the important part, then yes, sometimes sadness is part of that and I accept that going in. Though I do have a pet hate for books especially in kids/YA fiction where there's a formula and an important character has to die around 3/4 through.

Hence I appreciate that other site where Character Death and Rape/Nonconsent are required tags and you can filter out such stories.

Re disclaimers - if they start approaching the length of the story, they'd better be as interesting as the story. My stories often don't really fit a category well, so I try to put at least a sentence to give a better idea that here be something other than your usual expectations, often a paragraph blurb like you'd get on the back of a book. People will get an idea of my humour and vocab as well, and can then make an informed decision whether to read or not.

Much as I'd love more Views and reads, I don't want them from people who are going to see allusions to same-sex activity, polyamory, BDSM, or use of big words or Britglish, and whinge about it or worse, click to the end and downvote. Better for both of us if they nope out at the start.

I do have a story which explicitly says
if you enjoyed this, please look at my other stories. Note if you don't like x or y, try StoryA or StoryB and ignore all my others, and we'll both be happier.

 

[sophism]

When I'm reading for pure fun, especially sexy fun, I like to know that there won't be unexpected sadness (unexpected anything else, I can generally cope with, or click away).

If I'm reading something more like Literature where the events or mood are the important part, then yes, sometimes sadness is part of that and I accept that going in.

This is such an eloquent way to sum up my thoughts!

If you were disappointed with those darker endings, I'd say you wanted to read another stories, not the ones the authors wrote. Surely, though, there would have been clues earlier on that the stories were going to be bleak, not sunshine and butterflies?

This is a good point, but really, personally, not always. There is one writer on this site who I really admire and whose works I love to read, but their stories range from a little lighter with happy endings to extremely heavy themes of NC and sometimes violence - the latter is not my cup of tea.

No matter if I end up disliking the story itself though, I get wrapped up in the world building they do that I unfortunately can't click out of it even if I wanted to. Then when I finish reading (their stories are quite long too, so it's a significant time investment even if I read quickly) I'm faced with the feeling that 'this was supremely well written but it's not my type of story.'

I still read all of their stories, though, because I'm afraid I'll miss out on something I'll really like out of my aversion to stronger content. That's why I've been thinking so much on the idea of how much is too much to disclose in an author's note. On the one hand, maybe if they said in a note in the beginning, I'd know which stories I'd probably do better to skip. But still (and maybe this is the romantic in me, that considers us artists with words) I can't help but feel like it ruins a bit of artistic vision. Sometimes there's a beauty to being surprised at how a story ends up, regardless of how I end up feeling about it afterwards.

I can't help but feel like straight out saying things in an author's note might feel like I'm spoiling my own stories and that stings.

 

[SimonDoom]

How do you feel about author's notes to disclose mood spoilers?

I don't think there is a correct answer to this. It depends on what you are trying to do.

I think there's a legitimate role for art that deliberately tries to shock, provoke, unsettle, and startle readers. But if you do that, you're in no position to complain if some of your readers react very badly. You have to make your choices.

If shock is NOT one of your goals, then some sort of preface or disclaimer may be appropriate.

Most of my stories have happy endings, and my stories also tend to "stay within the lines" in terms of reader expectations for the category, but I did write one story here that had a shocking, apocalyptic ending. The only clue I gave the reader was to put it in the "Erotic Horror" category, which I thought, and still think, was enough. At least one reader reacted negatively to the turn the story took. I don't care.

I would say, in general, you should keep your disclaimer/preface to the bare minimum needed to serve whatever purpose you want it to serve, because of the risk that it will bore the reader and deter the reader from getting into the heart of the story.

 

[ChloeTzang]

ChloeTzang writes author's notes that go on longer than some people's stories. Length isn't necessarily a problem, but if you're going to write a long one then it should probably be entertaining.

rotflmao. My longest "author's note" (and it was at the start) was 3,000 words in "A Troll is Haunting Tex's" altho "Huginn's Yule" also had a long authors note at the start and an even longer one at the end. So no, length is not a problem but its probably better if your readers know you before you get as lengthy as I do. Usually I do a one or two paragraph note at the start, and sometimes a shot one at the end as well, especially of its a multi-chapter story.

And okay, I did try to make that one at the start of a "A Troll is Haunting Tex's" entertaining, but it is an example of an outlier at the far far far end of the "authors notes" bellcurve. If anyone on Lit has written a longer one, I'll buy them a coffee. LOL

 

[ChloeTzang]

I've got a pretty long authors note/disclaimer in my draft right now. As the story is set in Japan for its first chapter I felt the need to explain the honorifics system as omitting them even when writing in English I feel would be dishonest to the main characters cultural upbringing and understanding of the world. Also another character plays with honorifics as a means of poking fun of other people. Point is I thought the authors Note would be an appropriate place to add a handy honorifics guide.

So like, would people click away because of an authors not being too long? How long is too long? Would it be intimidating?

Do a short intro and point people to the detailed explanation at the end. Those who are interested will go take a look and those that won't, won't be distracted. I did a long story set in the Dark Ages of Europe, and I did a really lengthy authors note at the end setting out a lot of the history and background ("Huginn's Yule" if you want an example)