How long is too long for a disclaimer?

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I've got a pretty long authors note/disclaimer in my draft right now. As the story is set in Japan for its first chapter I felt the need to explain the honorifics system as omitting them even when writing in English I feel would be dishonest to the main characters cultural upbringing and understanding of the world. Also another character plays with honorifics as a means of poking fun of other people. Point is I thought the authors Note would be an appropriate place to add a handy honorifics guide.

So like, would people click away because of an authors not being too long? How long is too long? Would it be intimidating?

 

[NotWise]

I've got a pretty long authors note/disclaimer in my draft right now. As the story is set in Japan for its first chapter I felt the need to explain the honorifics system as omitting them even when writing in English I feel would be dishonest to the main characters cultural upbringing and understanding of the world. Also another character plays with honorifics as a means of poking fun of other people. Point is I thought the authors Note would be an appropriate place to add a handy honorifics guide.

So like, would people click away because of an authors not being too long? How long is too long? Would it be intimidating?

ChloeTzang writes author's notes that go on longer than some people's stories. Length isn't necessarily a problem, but if you're going to write a long one then it should probably be entertaining.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Ideally you want to start to hook your reader with a first sentence, reel them in with the first paragraph and (actually the metaphor breaks down here) reel them in some more with the first scene.

Discussing honourifics probably isn't going to do that. Your probably going to want to explain the honourifics use as you go, with people reacting to their use and misuse.

Long notes and disclaimers can often come across as a bit ego centric (to my mind). If you really want to include tons of information maybe include it as an appendix and put one sentence at the beginning pointing them there if they want to know more

 

[KeithD]

I think both length and content introduce risk of limiting the number of readers who will get into the story. I wouldn't be deterred from writing it the way I wanted by that, though.

A comment on Chloe Tzang: she's really a excellent writer and storyteller, so that's the mark you would try to be achieving in terms of success more than whatever she does in providing background.

 

[Duleigh]

Japanese honorifics are pretty complex, I think that dumping the system wholesale on a reader before the story gets started may be too much for a reader. I use Vietnamese and French in several of my stories and I have had great success with parenthetical notes in the story to keep the reader in the loop.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Unless the honorifics play a significant role in the story and a working knowledge of them is necessary to understand the story, I'd resist the temptation to open your story with an extended authors note. I base that on the assumption that most Lit's readers aren't here to take a deep dive into another culture.

That said, there definitely are readers who would find it the coolest thing since sliced bread - and promptly correct every mistake, real or imagined, that you make. So, make sure you get them right as they sit in the time and cultural context because, like American honorifics, they vary by region and time.

So, if you're intent on doing it - keep it as short as you can, keep it sweet, and don't explain shit. Just lay it out and assume that the readers are smart enough to follow along. You don't need to provide them with the whole system - just the parts you actually use in the story.

Know that a lot of them are going to bounce off the front door.

 

[Paul_Chance]

I've got a pretty long authors note/disclaimer in my draft right now. As the story is set in Japan for its first chapter I felt the need to explain the honorifics system as omitting them even when writing in English I feel would be dishonest to the main characters cultural upbringing and understanding of the world. Also another character plays with honorifics as a means of poking fun of other people. Point is I thought the authors Note would be an appropriate place to add a handy honorifics guide.

So like, would people click away because of an authors not being too long? How long is too long? Would it be intimidating?

I'm a little slow tonight (blame the popcorn). Why don't you try writing the authors note and then posting it here? Some of our authors could read it and then give much better "how the specific disclaimer looks" advice.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

I'm a little slow tonight (blame the popcorn). Why don't you try writing the authors note and then posting it here? Some of our authors could read it and then give much better "how the specific disclaimer looks" advice.

Here it is

Authors Note: This story uses Japanese honorifics. The honorifics someone uses for another says a lot about their relationship, personality, and relative status.

San is the gender neutral catch all for polite interactions. Sama is like San but refers specifically to someone of a higher station. Dono is the equivalent of calling someone 'my lord'. Sensei refers to teachers, doctors and masters of specific arts.

Kun is an endearing suffix used for men who are younger, friends or of a lower station. Chan is an endearing cutesy honorific describing women the speaker is friendly with, young women and children. Addressing someone without an honorific is intimate and requires permission to do respectfully.

Ditto. A non-Literotica story wouldn't start with a detailed author's note on the character's linguistics. So, not needed in a Literotica story, either.

Your suggestion sounds pretty good. I think narrative context can also help even without parenthetical notes, but it depends.

You say this but I've read multiple Manga and light novels with a honorifics guide on the inside cover. It's really common in novels imported from Japan.

 

[JuanSeiszFitzHall]

That doesn't strike me as excessive, and it's certainly information I didn't have.

 

[HeyAll]

Personally, i've always felt long notes and disclaimers at the top of a story looks tacky. Just my opinion.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I reckon that intro is about right. It provides key information, and it's short and crisp. I've read plenty of novels that provide a little cultural guide, just like this.

 

[Duleigh]

Ditto. A non-Literotica story wouldn't start with a detailed author's note on the character's linguistics. So, not needed in a Literotica story, either.

Your suggestion sounds pretty good. I think narrative context can also help even without parenthetical notes, but it depends.

I have had readers complain if I don't put in the parenthetical note, they don't like having to go look up an honorific or a common exclamation, they say it breaks the rhythm of reading, and I never had a complaint that they were there. So I err on the side of the reader, and I'm getting pretty good ratings.

 

[Bramblethorn]

For Loss Function I opened with this note:

This story contains aspects of Lesbian Sex, Sci-Fi, and Romance, and I'm not sure which category fits best, but I think the romance is the heart of this one. Please note that it includes COVID-19, dementia, and the death of a spouse.

The dog dies too, but he lived a long and happy life and was thoroughly spoiled.

It might be helpful to know that Russian-style names change form depending on the social context, similar to how "Elizabeth" might be "Bettie" to her friends but with some extra complications. Searching on "Eastern Slavic naming customs" will find more information.

Romance tends to be a comfort-reading kind of genre, and I thought it might be unkind to ambush readers with tragedy. I also didn't want people mistaking switches between "Nadja"/"Nadka"/"Nadezhda"/"Nadjusenka" or "Pyotr"/"Petya" for sloppy editing, which is a pretty easy assumption if you're not used to those conventions. Rather than spell out exactly what each form means, I just gave them enough info to find it for themselves.

 

[HectorBidon]

San ... Sama .... Dono ... Sensei ... Kun ... Chan ...

There is no way I'm going to remember all those distinctions from the author's note. So if important nuances in the story depend on my knowing them, then those nuances will likely be lost on me.

Another way might be to have the honorific landscape be a theme that the reader discovers during the story. In the opening scenes, everyone uses the polite catch all, which I think many readers are already somewhat familiar with. Then as situations come up that require different terms, you either make the reason clear from context, or, if absolutely necessary, include a narratorial explanation. The idea would be to show rather than tell: show how honorifics are used and expected, and show what happens when they are misused in different ways. I'd think that that would make for a more engaging reading experience,

 

[Kumquatqueen]

There is no way I'm going to remember all those distinctions from the author's note. So if important nuances in the story depend on my knowing them, then those nuances will likely be lost on me.

Another way might be to have the honorific landscape be a theme that the reader discovers during the story. In the opening scenes, everyone uses the polite catch all, which I think many readers are already somewhat familiar with. Then as situations come up that require different terms, you either make the reason clear from context, or, if absolutely necessary, include a narratorial explanation. The idea would be to show rather than tell: show how honorifics are used and expected, and show what happens when they are misused in different ways. I'd think that that would make for a more engaging reading experience,

I think that's probably better in this case, but the header could also be useful, especially if it was edited to be less wordy.

 

[Paul_Chance]

That looks good to me - short, sweet, to the point. If, as a reader, I ran into that it wouldn't stop me from continuing on into the story.

A note on Dono - I wouldn't use it unless your story is set some time ago, maybe pre-1980. Though the translation and meaning is correct, it's archaic, and when you run into it conversation it's almost always used as a hyper-polite dig. Like saying "Whatever you say old man". It is present in a lot of manga, but it's used there with the deliberate double-meaning (skirting the line of an insult, but in a form that prevents the taking of the insult). The only time I heard it was inside a family where it was used as a term of endearment (but again, as a polite insult, with irony).

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

That looks good to me - short, sweet, to the point. If, as a reader, I ran into that it wouldn't stop me from continuing on into the story.

A note on Dono - I wouldn't use it unless your story is set some time ago, maybe pre-1980. Though the translation and meaning is correct, it's archaic, and when you run into it conversation it's almost always used as a hyper-polite dig. Like saying "Whatever you say old man". It is present in a lot of manga, but it's used there with the deliberate double-meaning (skirting the line of an insult, but in a form that prevents the taking of the insult). The only time I heard it was inside a family where it was used as a term of endearment (but again, as a polite insult, with irony).

Yeah the only character who calls anyone Dono is a playful delinquent type doing it as a lighthearted jab that towes the line of being self deprecating. This is also the same character that will call a grown man Chan to mock them. He's the only character to use honorifics "incorrectly" or more accurately in a way that is disrespectful and this does not go unnoticed by other characters.

 

[AWhoopsieDaisy]

Here's a draft of the Dono joke for those who are curious. This is after I've tried adding explanations in the narration by the way.

"Whoa, the Jun Kubo?" Katsu stands upright so his ass isn't facing his friend so prominently. Yuma turns around and bows too far forward, exaggerating the action. He closes his eyes and raises both eyebrows. "Excuse me, I didn't recognize you, Mr. Kubo-Dono."

Kubo can't help but roll his eyes. The English and Japanese honorifics combined were not necessary. Neither was the use of Dono, an antique suffix roughly translating to 'my lord'.

Yuma looks up, opening one eye with the biggest smile. "How's life being the son of the president?"

Jun made the mistake once as a child, claiming his father was the president when asked what his parents did for a living. He wasn't wrong, he just didn't know there was a difference between being president of Japan and being president of a company. "I'm never going to live that down am I?"

 

[Demiurging]

That also doesn't seem excessive to me, but it you do end up with much more to explain, you could go the way of some fantasy novels and have an appendix at the end of your story with a short message at the front end guiding people to it. It might be irritating to some readers, but I don't think it's that much of an imposition to open up the last page in another window while I'm reading to understand context (has pros and cons to a real, paper appendix, too).

 

[SimonDoom]

Your intro works for me. If I were reading the story I might find it helpful, because I wouldn't otherwise know the distinctions between those words, and it might be difficult to define them in the course of narrative and dialogue without being clumsy. It's not so long that it's likely to deter the reader.

 

[Voboy]

That's not very long. Some of mine have been even longer. And honorifics intrigue me, so it certainly wouldn't make me click away.

I had a nice comment about a historical piece I wrote a little bit ago, "Very well done. Educational even. It's nice to be educated while I'm jacking off." I love that comment, and I couldn't agree more.

 

[SamScribble]

Personally, once I start reading I want a reason to keep reading. If you are going to have to 'explain' things to me before you start telling me the story, you have probably lost me. I'm sure that, with a bit of thought, you can say what you need to say in the course of the story. Good luck.

 

[sophism]

I'm glad I remembered that this thread exists as I've been considering the usage of author's notes for a couple things I'm working on right now!

It kind of came up in one of the earlier comments:

For Loss Function I opened with this note:

Romance tends to be a comfort-reading kind of genre, and I thought it might be unkind to ambush readers with tragedy.

How do you feel about author's notes to disclose mood spoilers?

I've honestly always been very attracted to sad or ambiguous endings to stories (eg. Handmaiden's Tale, The Giver). I'm always joking about how I'd love to kill of my main character at the end but I don't know when I'll work up the courage to do that for stories published on this site

However, there's a story I'm writing where I anticipate writing a sort of un-satisfying ending. It won't be happy, for sure. I'd hate for readers to get through the whole story and then feel betrayed at that ending after being made to care about the protagonist, so I've toyed with the idea of disclosing it at the beginning. But at the same time, I can't help but feel like it would detract from my vision of the story.

Do you think this is category dependent issue? (It wouldn't go in romance) Are there other places you would try to disclose this, or would you just post it and let the readers think what they do when they get to the end?

I'm just wondering what others think

 

[ElectricBlue]

However, there's a story I'm writing where I anticipate writing a sort of un-satisfying ending. It won't be happy, for sure. I'd hate for readers to get through the whole story and then feel betrayed at that ending after being made to care about the protagonist, so I've toyed with the idea of disclosing it at the beginning. But at the same time, I can't help but feel like it would detract from my vision of the story.

I wouldn't compromise the integrity of a story just because some people might get upset.

If they weep or rage at the ending, you've portrayed your protagonist well. It's when readers go, "Meh," that you worry.

I've occasionally added a short disclaimer up front to steer the ass-hats and clowns away, but never given away the ending.

 

[sophism]

I wouldn't compromise the integrity of a story just because some people might get upset.

If they weep or rage at the ending, you've portrayed your protagonist well. It's when readers go, "Meh," that you worry.

I've occasionally added a short disclaimer up front to steer the ass-hats and clowns away, but never given away the ending.

That's such a poetic way to put things! I guess as a reader I have too many memories of being disappointed by stories that have darker endings than I anticipated when starting to read the story lol

Can I ask what you mean when you mention the disclaimers that you've used?

At the end of the day I recognize I'm writing for myself but also... it would be nice for readers' satisfaction to match my own