How does one leave?

[bashfull]

Wow...

I can't say how much I appreciate the support and advice from all of you. I wish I had more time right now to reply to each and everyone (and the pm's) but I am between meetings. So please accept my appreciation. I'm not used to discussing my private life nor to asking for help. I am really glad I have though.


Quick note: someone brought up the financial issues. This is quite an issue that I think should be thrown out there. I have a business in the service industry in my community. It is a small, intimate, community. I am very involved in the community, both b/c I feel it is important to be and b/c that is how I build my business. So, the whole issue of leaving a pregnant wife...I don't think that would be accepted very well which could crush my business.

 

[bashfull]

I'm honored that ya'll are reaching out to me. It's not easy for me to share my personal life (I'm a very restrained, private individual) and I'm always the one everyone else turns to for answers rather than the one who seeks help.

Someone did bring up a good point in pm about there being another woman. I will tell you that there is no other woman involved. In the past, I used to think that perhaps it was that I wasn't physically appealing to my wife. No matter how much I worked out, etc. However, the last couple of years, my opinion of myself has changed. With the help of a few incredible women online and some very flattering passes and comments by stunning women in real life, I realize that I'm not all that bad looking. I am also aware that, in the words of business associates, friends, etc, I have a "presence" and exude confidence and charisma.

The ladies on Lit to whom I have spoken tell me I'm a good guy and the women in real life, upon learning of the things I do (romantic gestures, etc.) inform me that I would be quite the catch and that my wife is incredibly lucky. I do not tell anyone in real life my situation! Look how long it took me to finally say it here.

So while there is no other woman at this time, other women have contributed to my decision. They have given me hope that perhaps I can find someone out there with whom I would be compatible. Or, until I do, that I can have a lot of fun and enjoy life.

 

[Monazwx]

Quick note: someone brought up the financial issues. This is quite an issue that I think should be thrown out there. I have a business in the service industry in my community. It is a small, intimate, community. I am very involved in the community, both b/c I feel it is important to be and b/c that is how I build my business. So, the whole issue of leaving a pregnant wife...I don't think that would be accepted very well which could crush my business.

Dang, that sucks! Now, it would really help if you had proof that the wife is/was cheating or somthing. It'll be just as bad if the baby is a still baby or even a toddler when you leave. People are judgemental like that, and if the wife plays this 'baby game' for all it's worth, you could be headed for some trouble.

Edited to add: It's NOBODY'S business anyway, but I can see why you're concerned.

 

[an_angels_wings]

I know what you mean about always being the one everyone else goes to for help; I'm much the same way. But I've realized that sometimes you really do need to take time and actions to take care of yourself. We've got to take advantage of the time that we have, because for some of us, it's much too short.

 

[angelicminx]

Bashfull,

I haven't read all of the posts, but I wanted to share my experience with you, for what it's worth.

I married my high school sweetheart. I asked for a divorce at the end of April 2005. I just didn't love him like I once had and I couldn't get it back, no matter how hard I tried. It took me more than 3 years to make the decision.

I'd been unhappy for years and had told him so. When he asked how he could 'fix it' I told him and things changed for a few days, but then went back to what had become 'normal'. I felt invisible. Everyone else was more important than I was. He became angry when anything took me out of our home that: 1. Went beyond his arrival home from work or 2. I wasn't paid for. This included being a Girl Scout Troop Leader for our daughter; being President of the PTO for our daughter's school; Volunteering at our daughter's school and overseeing her education. I quit volunteering and everything else, to avoid the arguments.

I was lonely for adult company. I spent more and more time with my best friend, which pissed him off. When I stayed at home, I played poker and played on the Lit boards or I wrote. That pissed him off. He frequently said, "I'm busting my ass all day at work and you get to have fun." We had agreed that I would stay home and raise our daughter, that daycare would cost more that the job was worth. I did, however, work part time as a substitute teacher.

I lost interest in having sex with him. All I was at that point was a vessel. There was one night near the end of our marriage that I will never forget. I was experiencing severe abdominal pain. I don't know what it was, I just know I hurt. He wanted to have sex. I gave in, because at that point it was just easier. He looked at me at one point and said, "What's wrong, you look like you're in pain."
I said that I was in pain and remided him that I had told him that prior to the event.

He actually had the audacity to say, "I'm not ready to cum just yet, I'll finish in a minute." That moment was one factor in my decision to leave.

I weighed my family's reaction and our daughter in my mind and almost didn't leave. Then I thought about my own parents marriage, a mirror image of my own, and I decided that I didn't want my daughter to grow up like that. I wanted her to know that marriage didn't have to be like that at all. Another factor in my decicion was hearing about our 'private' discussions' from our friends. There were a lot of things for me to think about, but I made my final decision and I haven't looked back. Things have been hard, but I'm happy.

The divorce was final in June of this year, after 10 1/2 years of marriage and 16 1/2 years of being together.

My new SO is everything I ever dreamed of as a little girl. As a matter of fact, I told him a short time after I met him that he could have walked straight off the pages of a romance novel. He is the ultimate gentleman. He opens car doors for me, lights my cigarettes, brings me little things- just because, leaves me love notes before he leaves for work, calls me during the day- just to say, 'I love you', I could go on and on, but I won't. THIS is what I want for my daughter, and I'm determined to see that it happens.

As to your case, Bash, I don't think you can divorce while she's pregnant. At least you can't in Kentucky. As to whether you leave right now or not, that has to be YOUR decision. It has to be something you can live with for the rest of your life. I'd love to see you happy.

Please, keep teaching your son how to be a gentleman, no matter what happens.

My SO had to teach me how to accept his gentlemanly gestures. I just didn't know how, but I love it, and I love hearing the Aww comments his gestures generate.

PS. My ex isn't a bad guy either... just selfish and self-centered.

 

[Noor]

Bash, as one of the women on lit who thinks you are great I would like to remind you of a couple of things. The Bash we know here is not who your wife knows and that may make a big difference. You say there is currently not another woman which may be true but there is a whole board of women here, some of whom know your thoughts on a much more intimate level than your wife and we react to you based on those thoughts, who knows how we would see you if we only saw what she does? and maybe she is the same way.

Romantic gestures, well I am sure you can always find women who will like the specific things you like to do, but the trick is finding what feels good to the person you want to feel good. Its like saying my pancakes are really great, all these other people like these pancakes, when the hungry person in front of you that you wish to feed doesn't like pancakes, associates something horrible with pancakes or is allergic to wheat. It would be better to find out what they person needs or wants to eat rather than to continue serving them pancakes and expecting thanks, maenwhile they are getting hungry and upset.

Frankly, romantic gestures can be nice but they can also feel like power trips at times. It can be form without substance, just posturing, a display of wealth, being arm candy at a fancy resturant, f I would rather be given unconditionally acceptance and given what I need, not what someone thinks I should want and appreciate.

 

[BeachGurl2]

Frankly, romantic gestures can be nice but they can also feel like power trips at times. It can be form without substance, just posturing, a display of wealth, being arm candy at a fancy resturant, f I would rather be given unconditionally acceptance and given what I need, not what someone thinks I should want and appreciate.

While all of those things might be true for some women, I think it's equally true that for other women, those gestures are highly appreciated. And regardless of how you perceive them, no one should be belittled because of that. I think that it's perfectly fine for someone to not desire those gestures - to each her own. But I think there's a difference between what you're describing and what Bash has described. While I realize that we only see what people want us to see about them, at the same time, we have no reason not to take what has been said at face value and base our responses on that.

 

[Noor]

While all of those things might be true for some women, I think it's equally true that for other women, those gestures are highly appreciated. And regardless of how you perceive them, no one should be belittled because of that. I think that it's perfectly fine for someone to not desire those gestures - to each her own. But I think there's a difference between what you're describing and what Bash has described. While I realize that we only see what people want us to see about them, at the same time, we have no reason not to take what has been said at face value and base our responses on that.

The problem is that it is all about perception. I am describing how I might see what he described, same actions, different meaning to different people. She may take what Bash means as romantic gestures as something else, just as he may take what she considers good hearted joking as belittling. He says she is a good woman and a friend, so I figure based on that she isn't intentionally hurting him, they have some serious communication issues.

Bash is basically saying that because all these other woman would like these gestures, she should too, but all that goes right out the window when you are talking about 2 people within a relationship. The whole rest of the world could agree, but it doesn't matter! It is clear from Bash's own words that she does not appreciate them, yet he persists in them. so from her point of view he could be considered to be disrespectful of her feelings even though he clearly doesn't intend to be.

The major problem in even discussing this is that all relationships have unspoken agreements, often relationships break down when couples either break the agreements or can not live up to what the other one thought was the agreement. Neither one of them can be inside each others head, nor can we.

I know I am being the devils advocate and I wouldn't even bother if I didn't like Bash. This is really important, not a decision to be made without considering all the possiblities. the way he goes about it can effect him and his children for the rest of their lives.

 

[bashfull]

The problem is that it is all about perception. I am describing how I might see what he described, same actions, different meaning to different people. She may take what Bash means as romantic gestures as something else, just as he may take what she considers good hearted joking as belittling. He says she is a good woman and a friend, so I figure based on that she isn't intentionally hurting him, they have some serious communication issues.

Bash is basically saying that because all these other woman would like these gestures, she should too, but all that goes right out the window when you are talking about 2 people within a relationship. The whole rest of the world could agree, but it doesn't matter! It is clear from Bash's own words that she does not appreciate them, yet he persists in them. so from her point of view he could be considered to be disrespectful of her feelings even though he clearly doesn't intend to be.

The major problem in even discussing this is that all relationships have unspoken agreements, often relationships break down when couples either break the agreements or can not live up to what the other one thought was the agreement. Neither one of them can be inside each others head, nor can we.

I know I am being the devils advocate and I wouldn't even bother if I didn't like Bash. This is really important, not a decision to be made without considering all the possiblities. the way he goes about it can effect him and his children for the rest of their lives.

Darlin',

Thanks for your input. I never thought about how they can be seen as power/control issues. Thinking about it, I can see how you are correct in that. As for continuing them, I stopped for the most part a couple of years ago with her. After our last counseling session. I am never one to push something on someone who does not want what I have to offer. Pretty much the only time I do them now is when I involve my son in them so that he can learn.

As for finding someone who wants what I want, I beg to differ. I do hope at some point to find someone who accepts and appreciates my adoration. But that person will also have to be self confident, intelligent...and strong enough to let me take her in my arms and comfort her. I don't want a puppy, I want someone who is active and can partake of life.

 

[subwannabe]

Lots of advice here. Haven't had a chance to read every sentence but I may be able to ad something that maybe no one else has said yet (maybe they have). Anyway, you could go to counseling just yourself and maybe it wouldn't hurt if your wife knew you were going to counseling about your marriage.

 

[an_angels_wings]

Noor, you bring up some excellent points. It's always really good to show alternative points of view because we often get wrapped up in our own perspectives or one perspective that has been shown to us.

 

[bashfull]

Lots of good points here. And I do appreciate the input and advice and will weigh each one. I don't always take advice, but if given in earnest I do try to evaluate it.

 

[stairwaytokevin]

. . .

 

[bashfull]

My heart goes out to you. I can't say that I know exactly what you are going through, but I too had trouble leaving after over 5 years with someone. We didn't have kids, there were plenty of other serious issues that left me feeling guilty just at the thought of leaving.
We also had no sex for years. And she also did things that were cold and heartless. All the while I called her my best friend, and a great one at that, just like you.

Finally I left her and have never been happier. Now that I've been apart for quite some time I think back about the cold and heartless things she said and did and can't beleive I put up with it for so long. At the time I new they were cold and heartless but I seemed to keep going. Now in hindsight they seem like unimaginable things that someone should never do/say to an SO.

I can't say much because I don't know your entire situtation, but one thing I am certain of is that you will be much angier at her once you are emotionally far away from to her. Her sharing you love letters and laughing at them pissed you off and you reacted, but I think the same thing that happened to me will happen to you, that you will look back and consider it horrible and unimaginable. I sure do. I'd like to think I would have left mine earlier if she had done that to me, but the truth is she did worse and I stayed anyway. ONLY after I left for some time did I appreciate the insecrity, self-involvedness, coldness, lack-of-loveness, lack-of-passioness, and down right lack of any respect at all that she must have had to do that.

You sound like a saint. I am not one to judge or assume, but I would guess that she is the way she is becuase you have done things to her that we don't know about, or becuase she has her own serious issues. In my opinion (although it may be a dumb one) she would not act like how you desrcibe just becuase she is cheating on you, or doesn't find you attractive, or doesn't appreciate your chivarly, or anything else I can think of. This is deeper than that.

I won't tell you to stay or leave, but I would advise getting to the bottom of it. Why is she like this? This doesn't just happen for no reason. I know it will be hard to get to bottom of it, you may never get to it, but you will not be at peace until you do.


One question I'm not clear on from the post:
Did she say she was pregnant after you TOLD you would leave? Or did you decide you'd leave but she beat you to it by announcing the pregnancy?

If the story is true that you haven't used protection for 12 years and she never got pregnant until now, then she is only being manipulative if she's lying about it, not by the act of getting pregnant itself. It's just the way things worked out. Although I'm not on her side, how can she keep up a lie about being pregnant for long?


In any case, I agree with most of what has been said by others on this thread. Read it carefully becuase some great advice was given. I suspect (not sure why) that you will read Mitsouko's advice and not agree. Read it very carefully, there is a lot in there, and it is excellent advice.

I can't add to what's been said except for that you should tell her everything. Tell her your naughtiest sex thoughts, your fantasies, tell her what you tell Literotica. You dont need to tell her Lit exists becuase she might consider it you going behind her back in a sexual part of your life. But if she can't at least accept all of who you really are sexually and otherwise, then you and her will never work out. At least not given the state you are in now.

Our hearts go out to you.
Take care of youself.

Thank you. Welcome to Lit, btw.

 

[Noor]

Darlin',

Thanks for your input. I never thought about how they can be seen as power/control issues. Thinking about it, I can see how you are correct in that. As for continuing them, I stopped for the most part a couple of years ago with her. After our last counseling session. I am never one to push something on someone who does not want what I have to offer. Pretty much the only time I do them now is when I involve my son in them so that he can learn.

As for finding someone who wants what I want, I beg to differ. I do hope at some point to find someone who accepts and appreciates my adoration. But that person will also have to be self confident, intelligent...and strong enough to let me take her in my arms and comfort her. I don't want a puppy, I want someone who is active and can partake of life.

So you are no longer doing it yourself but you are training your son to? Have you considered that from your wife's point of view that might seem like you are using her own child against her? Also as women in the world are getting more and more liberated, you could be setting your son up for failure later in life.
It sounds like you haven't stopped because it isn't what she wishes you stop because you have given up.
Being kind, polite and considerate is a great thing, adoration in itself is nuetral, being rigid in how you show that adoration is a whole nother matter.

I don't believe I said you wouldn't find someone who wants what you want, but getting everything that you want, the way you want it is a tall older and may be unrealistic in this day and age.

 

[bashfull]

~snip~

I don't believe I said you wouldn't find someone who wants what you want, but getting everything that you want, the way you want it is a tall older and may be unrealistic in this day and age.

Edited b/c it sounds arrogant.

 

[stairwaytokevin]

. . .

 

[bashfull]

You may be extremely successful at accomplishing the things you mentioned. You could be the biggest genius of our generation for all we know. But remember that even Einstein divorced and remarried. I'm not saying that divorce is no big deal, I just mean when it comes to people and love, it's completely different ball game and the success you described above won't make any dfference to the topic you are really concerned about. Many of the most successfull and professional motivated and accomplished people I know live very lonely lives.

I know. I wrote that as a response to Nora talking about me being "unrealistic", not to brag.

 

[stairwaytokevin]

. . .

 

[bashfull]

Yes, I can be stubborn but I like to think only when lacking substantive evidence to be otherwise. I tend to evaluate all available data before committing to a decision. And I force myself to be flexible enough to accept and consider any new information that presents itself once I have committed.

 

[stairwaytokevin]

. . .

 

[Noor]

I know. I wrote that as a response to Nora talking about me being "unrealistic", not to brag.

Nora? Nora? Who is Nora?

I said the thought maybe unrealistic.

 

[bashfull]

Nora? Nora? Who is Nora?

I said the thought maybe unrealistic.

oops...sorry hon. I'm slightly inebriated this evening.

 

[Noor]

oops...sorry hon. I'm slightly inebriated this evening.

Good thing I like you

 

[Fennel]

You buying her flowers and putting them in her car is the same thing but opposite. YOU think it would be so nice do that for HER, but SHE doesn't care much for it, so you get made because she doesn't appreciate you. Maybe you should have stopped doing that a long time ago and discovered what SHE DOES like and don't force your opinions on her.

While I agree in general, there are some points here to consider that Bashfull has already raised. One, they have become both romantically AND sexually incompatible (e.g. she's withholding sex). Two, HOW she has expressed her lack of care for such things (i.e. laughing about it with her friends, deriding gentlemanly behaviors in front of their son, etc.) There are good and bad ways to say "that's not my thing."

(I am reminded of a very crass moment where I immediately turned to my sister to trade a tacky Xmas gift from Mom...while Mom was in earshot. Bad, Fennel. Bad!)

That they will not see eye-to-eye on this is clear. That Bashfull feels that he has been flexible in trying to meet her needs is also (his) fact.

I do not mean to rally to his defense here as I have just one side of the story, but I do believe that there is a point where one can say, "hey, why don't I find someone who appreciates the things I value most in a relationship."

She should have that too.